Where will it all end?

[MayMay]

I will try and keep this as brief as poss. I am new to MN so I may not use all the correct abreviations etc so bear with me please.
I have been with my other half for 8 years now. I have a DD from my previous marriage and he has 2 DDs from his. His ex is a complete nutter, psycho bitch from hell basically. As soon as she realised he had someone else she started the nastiness (they split about 4 months before he met me - he walked out because he couldn?t tollerate her behaviour any longer). She accused him of child abuse when he refused to stop seeing me (which got dropped obviously due to lack of evidence), oh and all sorts. We finally got visiting rights in 2000 but she made this as hard as possible.. when it was our weekend she would start a row on the doorstep every time or acuse us of buying them crap clothes or any reason for an arguement. She also has always been very keen on the bottle which we have found disturbing but could do little about really with no real proof. She?s also had more boyfriends than is healthy as far as the girls? welfare. She was always abusive on the ?phone and if I ever answered she would F and blind at me even when I tried to be polite to her. She threatened to send her (heavies) uncles around to our house and she comes from a really rough family so I know it was no idle threat. Finally, about 2-3 years after we got together she started to really go off the rails and refuse us contact, saying the girls had ballet or parties to go to etc. If we wanted them an extra day over a bh weekend she would agree and then acuse us of kidnapping when we returned them on the Monday. We didn?t have the money to keep persuing it through the courts. Basically it got so bad that my OH decided he didn?t want the children seeing this every other weekend and left it to cool off a bit. This was 3 years ago when we emmigrated because we couldn?t take the animosity any longer. We got a phone call a few weeks ago from his parents to say that she has had the girls taken away from her because she is an alcoholic and they are staying with her aunt and uncle who are in their 50s. They are stopping my OH from talking to the girls and have stopped his parents from seeing them too. Unfortunately because it was a voluntary placement, done within her family, we would have to go to court to reestablish visiting rights and/or custody. I used to have a really good relationship with them (they were 6 and 8 when I last saw them) and are now 9 and 11, even to the extent that the oldest one said she loved me more than her mum. If it were just the oldest one I would have no hesitation to pushing for custody as she adores her dad and loved me but the youngest was more a mummy?s girl and I think there may be conflict there and she will want to live near mum and, as the oldest one is the softer one, she will want to do whatever DSD1 wants to keep her happy. Our solicitor thinks we have a good chance of custody but even so it could swing either way as it can depend on so many things. It is going to cost us around ?8000 to take it all the way and to raise this we will have to sell our house and get something smaller. Basically I really don?t know what to do and neither does my OH. We know the girls have been poisoned against us and wonder if there ever would be a chance of "happy families" with them or should we leave them with her family and wait til they want to contact their dad when they are older. PS any cards and gifts we have sent them over the years have been destroyed. We don?t know what to do for the best. We can?t even talk to them to ask them how they feel! SS say they can?t force the aunt to get them to talk to us. It seems it?s all one sided.

Go to court and fight for custody, you can't just cut them loose because they are difficult. They need the love of their dad and they need their dad to fight for them as they have probably been poisoned against him.
It is very unfortunate that it will cost a lot of money and upset but is there any other real option?

And just for future reference it is very difficult to read posts that have no paragraphs.

Message withdrawn

sorry about lack of paragraphs.. will do better.

I know how it looks.. 3 years and no contact. Putting it all into a few paragraphs doesn´t help either.

When we lived in the UK we were an hour away and that was difficult enough. We would turn up on our weekend, especting to take them away with us and she would have some excuse to stop them coming. She didn´t even have the decency to call Fri night to advise us.. it was just an excuse really. Like I said, every time there would be an arguement on the doorstep (I always had to wait in the car as she would blow a blue fit if she saw me) and it was very upsetting for the girls to witness this each time. In the end she stopped us nearly every time it was our turn. My OH just didn´t want to put them through that any more and had decided he was going to wait until they were a little bit older and came to him voluntarily.

We at least assumed they were being looked after properly and thought it would be less hurtfull for them to stop the rows.

We would have fought for custody beforehand but assumed we would stand no chance v mum!

Now this has happened though we are determined to bring them over here with us but what I am worried about is the younger one will obviously miss some contact with her mum and we can´t keep flying them back and forth every other weekend to see her. The change of lifestyle will be so different for them, too. My DD loves it but she is more confident and copes well with new situations.

I don´t know how often they see their mum now as she was staying with her aunt and the kids at first and getting help but she has gone back to her house and the bottle. The youngest one apparently said "what is more important mummy, us or drinking?" How sad is that.

I am the one pushing for custody really.. my OH is reluctant as he knows what his ex is like and I think is dreading all this contact with her again as she and her family are so evil. Look at what she did in the early days to stop him seeing the children.. she will stop at nothing.

The great aunt and uncle say they also will file for custody (SS say they have little chance compared to us and despite the distance and the 3 yrs lack of contact say we have a very good chance).

I would go for custody - continued exposure to their mother's family will do them permanent damage and not seeing them for 3 years was done for their wellbeing not yours.

God how tough, you must've been through hell
Will the family courts agree to them moving to another country though, that's what I'm wondering. WOuld you consider moving back to the UK so that there could be continuity in their lives?

Thanks Grumpygirl (obviously not so grumpy, lol). It WAS done for their well being.. I know it may not look that way. My OH is often in tears thinking about his girls and he isn´t even allowed to speak to them, let alone see them.

His main concern is that even when we get visiting rights (which we are applying for again now as the sol says the old ones are too old really) and we go over to see them, they will refuse to come with us for the weekend! It will break his heart.

Bluejelly.. I am told that us living abroad will not affect the outcome of the verdict at all... that him being dad is the most important thing and that they get a loving and stable upbringing.

I personally think it is a better life for them over here anyway. The children play out in the streets safely until well after dark, your neighbours look out for you etc. I moved over here initially when I was 7 and my parents took me back to the UK when I was 15 and I hated it. I have spent all the years since then trying to get back out here again to live.

I totally understand what you say about continuity but think it´s overrated.. their whole life would change anyway as there is no way we would move back to that part of the UK again so they would need to change schools etc. At least they are young and can adapt to such a change relatively easily.

As I said.. it will be contact with their mother I am most concerned about as we cannot afford to go back and forth all the time. I asked the social worker in charge.. what happens if we apply for custody and she suddenly bucks her ideas up and cleans up and becomes the perfect mum (for appearances anyway) and she more or less replied that looking at all the facts and the history that is not likely to happen so at least I don´t feel we´re tearing them away from a wonderful mum (if you know what I mean). God this is so hard.

Who took the children away from their mother? surely if that was throught SS then her suitablity as a mother is already on record. Also that fact that her youngest said "what is more important mummy, us or drinking?" proves that her lifestyle is already affecting their self esteem.

I hate the thought of taking children away from their mother but if she will not allow your DH to be a father to them then she has forced this situation upon herself.

Why not go and visit them and see what the children want to do - if they say they want to come and live with you and your dp, I would have thought you're on very strong ground and there would be more chance of them being co-operative if they do move to be with you.

If it were me, I would apply for custody for sure, but if it involves down-sizing (which is a huge sacrifice on your part), I would try to work out in advance if it was what the daughters actually want or at least float the idea and check that there is not a massive negative reaction. It might take them a while to get used to the idea...

No, it wasn´t SS who took them away.. it was her own sister! The woman at SS said that 95% of her family didn´t want to help, the great aunt is the only one who would! They couldn´t get hold of us because ´she´ didn´t have our new address. It is a horrid family... one of the mum´s paternal uncles is a registered paedophile.. her father is a tax dodger and has had to move abroad because of fraud, her mum is also an alcoholic, her sister has a cleaning disorder and so wouldn´t have the children messing up her home.. the other uncles are big bruisers and bouncers who will do anything for the right £££!

SS promise us they are keeping tabs on the paedophile uncle (as the uncle they are living with is his brother - I nearly did my nut!!!!). I so want to take them away from all of this but am scared they won´t want to come with us now. When we used to have them weekends the older one used to cry and wanted to stay with her dad and me.. the younger one wasn´t quite so bothered.. she was more of a mummy´s girl, plus she was that much younger anyway.

I think your idea is best... start with visits before we go for custody and see how they feel (although it will delay things big time and means that they get to stay in that home a bit longer).

I have a horrible feeling though that opinion will be divided eventually and the older one would rather come and the younger one stay but the older one is softer and cares for her sister and I´m sure won´t leave if she doesn´t want to! What a mess!

Well, you never know. The younger one might follow her sister's lead. It sounds like the younger one has a pretty good handle on the reality of living with their mother. If you broach it with them gently and explain how you just want to take care of them and ensure that they have a nice and safe place in which to grow up, you might be surprised. My dsd is 9 and never ceases to amaze me with the depth of her insight into social situations and personalities... They can be very mature/perceptive even at that age.

I guess I´m worried about being seen as the evil stepmother who took them away from their beloved mummy. However bad she is she is still their mum and they will always love her. I don´t want to deprive them of seeing her, not for her but for their sakes, they will need to see her, but it will be difficult.

What is worse is that the less they see of her the more idolised she will probably become in their memories and the more they may resent me for it, especially during times of arguements, it´s bound to come back to "well you´re not my mum so you can´t tell me what to do" etc.

I agree that it's unlikely to be easy, but if their mother is that awful and abusive, think how screwed up they are likely to be if they stay there... I have a theory that children will inevitably say they hate their natural parents at some point, let along step-parents, so I'd just anticipate it as part of the course...

I don´t think she is abusive with them... I think she loves the girls but she has just neglected them and is very selfish, thinking of her own needs rather than putting it all aside and thinking of the children.

Like when my OH and I got together... rather than let them see their dad for their sakes she kept them apart to make him suffer, she used them.

I think it´s jealousy based. She didn´t treat him well when they were together but she didn´t want anyone else to have him. She treated my OH like dirt and was physically abusive to him, destroyed his things when they argued, etc. When we had been together for a year she was still asking him to come back to her.

I meant abusive in the larger sense and neglect can be just as bad as negative attention. I am sure you'll get a cue from the children as and when you see them as to what they want to do. I just hope that they choose what seems to be the sensible option of living with you and your dp...