How best to approach this

[fackinell]

DP and I have been together over 4yrs his ex left 11yrs ago for another man. DP has a daughter aged 18, it's been pretty apparent she has never like me. I have never said a bad word to her, I've taken an interest in her achievements and issues, bought thoughtful little gifts that have made me think of her and gone out of my way to buy in her favourite treats at the wknd when she comes to stay over.

We have had spells where she has seemed to 'tolerate' me and others where she has screamed that she hates me, kicked doors, damaged my belongings, although I can't prove this (things like sticky juice soaked through photo frames with pics of me in them although they're high on a shelf.)

Last wknd she came home drunk in the early hours ranting about me outside our bedroom door. I finally flipped (inside only) and told DP she needs to be spoken to. He is very weak so I suggested we ask her why she said what she did and what is her problem with me? Her mum is still with the man she left for, why am I the bad one?

I've lost several babies and now pg again, I need this ironed out now before shit really kicks off. She only knows about the first pregnancy and was so awful she is being told nothing until I'm past the danger stage. Last time we were disgusting, her mum was SO angry and so was the rest of her mum's family, she fucking hates me and I've ruined her life.

I'm now at the stage where I actually don't care about a relationship with her but I will not allow her to treat me with disrespect. She doesn't have to like me, she doesn't even have to talk to me but I feel by saying nothing I would be teaching her that I can be used as her verbal punchbag.

I am a patient person but she would test Mother Teresa! She's very financially motivated and enjoys pushing the boundaries. She wanted a car, DP found one at 450 and said yes. She found one at 4k and sent a pic message saying 'I want this one.' ð??? she got!!

How do we approach this talk? Please don't say very gently or I may blow a fuse. I won't shout or be angry with her but she needs to know this is not an acceptable way to treat someone. Her mother is known around town for being a bully and a hard nut. She beat up a friend's sister for going to the police about being raped (by the Mum's friend.) There have been a few instances where police have been involved with the family, including doing time for a class A conviction. I'm not afraid of them although threats have been made on a couple of occasions.

Be gentle, please, I'm stressing enough that this pregnancy could go wrong too!

Personally I would sit her down (with dps agreement) and say either you are polite and respectful in my home or you're not welcome, she's 18 old enough to be held accountable for her actions and the consequences. I wouldn't have her stating anymore, she can maintain a relationship with her father outside the family home until she can control herself.

I hope all goes well with your pregnancy

Thanks Themrmen, it's DP's home though, I moved in 3 yrs ago. That's been her family home since she was born. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have the 'authority' to say that but I know he wouldn't allow me to and the shitstorm from her family would begin. He says she's still a child really.

She ISN'T a child - she's a young adult, acting childishly.

I'm afraid, as you probably already appreciate, that the key to dealing with all of this is your DP. He has got to start getting real with this and effectively 'laying down the law' with his daughter because her utter lack of respect towards you is completely unacceptable.

Furthermore, even if she was, literally, an actual child - that sort of rudeness, hostility and (probable) spite would also be wrong. Kids (or at least kids who are parented responsibly) don't get a free pass on bad behaviour until the morning of their 18th birthday - yet this one is still being allowed to be a horror well past it.

IMO, your DP needs to sit down and TELL her that her completely unfounded verbal attack on you the other night - in combination with previous outbursts - will NOT happen again, or else she will not be welcome again until she learns to moderate her behaviour. I wouldn't care if, ostensibly, this was 'DP's home' ..... it is now your home as well, and if he thinks any differently - having made you pregnant - I'd be horrified and would be rethinking the whole relationship. As such, you're entitled to peace and respect from others in the house - just as you are respectful to them in turn. As you say, she doesn't have to like you ..... we don't hit it off with everyone in life ..... but assuming that you've done nothing unpleasant to her, basic courtesy should be a given.

I don't know if your DP is capable of laying down the law like that but it's essential that he does, especially with a new baby on the way. It would be awful were this to continue ..... I'd be concerned about her reaction to the younger child, and also about the message she'd send to him/her when they were old enough to notice (even subconsciously) how their mother was treated - and also, potentially, how their father allowed it to carry on.

This isn't about DP choosing 'sides' .... I'm sure he has enough love for you, his daughter and the new baby, but he has absolutely got to make it clear to her that such nastiness won't be tolerated any more. There's no foundation to it and I really can't think why she continues, unless she still harbours some hope of her parents getting back together and sees you as an obstacle .... it'd be interesting to know how she treats her mother's partner.

And regardless of how (undoubtedly) upset she was as a 7 year old when her parents split up 11 years ago .... there comes a time when for her own good, as well as yours, she has to start growing up and at least putting on a show of being civil. Basic manners, and no mouthing off, no damaging your things. DP needs to get tough with her if she objects to this and point out that she is supposed to be an adult now and is supposed therefore to be capable of adult behaviour - particularly while she benefits from being thought of as an adult, e.g. the car. He may cringe at doing this but sometimes you have to dish out the 'tough love' for a (so-called) child's own good - is he happy that his daughter is so foul ? .... perhaps because no-one's ever made her think properly about such behaviour and the effect it has on others?

It does sound as if your DP is very weak but only he can sort this out. Otherwise, what, exactly does he suggest going forward ? .... that you, and the new baby, should be subject to SD's sweary rants any time she fancies sounding off ? Does he really think you should just casually shrug your shoulders at that ?

Finally, am very sorry about your lost babies. That's another reason DP needs to man up and tackle SD. I've had several miscarriages and I know how scary each subsequent pregnancy can feel when you have a history like that. Furthermore, although there are all sorts of reasons for losing a baby, when you're under severe stress, it's natural to wonder if that's also played a part and easy to become very resentful if you feel your partner isn't doing all they could to protect you. I really hope you have no problems with this pregnancy but in view of the past your DP should by now be capable of understanding why it's so important emotionally - and perhaps physically as well - to ensure you suffer as little stress and anxiety as possible ...... and that means sorting his daughter out once and for all. That means telling her straight - and no, before he protests, he is NOT rejecting her, because she'll be welcome so long as she behaves like a normal decent human being, it means sticking to his guns if she continues to be nasty by refusing to have her in the house (and thus protecting you) and, it should also mean, that while/if she refuses to be civil, she does NOT get treated e.g. by him taking her out for meals or doing particularly nice stuff if he sees her outside the house. I wouldn't suggest he stops seeing her altogether, but there shouldn't be any element of 'reward' in those get togethers while she's determined to treat you with such disrespect.

Having said all that - two things have occurred to me. First, am not sure if she lives with you or not .... if she does, it obviously makes things more difficult but the basic premis should still apply. Either shape up or ship out. Secondly, is there any possibility that despite her mum still being with the man she left DP for, SD has been fed a barrel of lies about the circumstances of the split and the timeline and therefore 'hates' you based on a load of untruths ? ..... though am clutching at straws a bit there as she must surely remember you coming into her dad's life when she was 14?

Hi Catsmother, I 100% agree with everything you've said. To answer your questions no she doesn't live with us but has one night sleepover and one night for dinner. I don't think she did know the circumstances but he told her a few years ago when she kicked off that her mum chose to leave him and she stormed out in tears.

DP can't 100% confirm an affair (the exW) but the man she was seeing, his wife found out about them and he left her with a small child. Ironically SD's mum will not allow her BF's child in her house.

The SD is rather flirtatious with the mums BF, it's rather uncomfortable to watch. She's like this with most men and I've drawn DP's attention to
It a few times when I've seen a man being a bit lecherous toward her when she was younger.

When she was ranting the other morning DP hushed her up and got her into her room, I asked what she'd said and he said nothing. I asked again and he said he didn't hear what she said. I told him not to fucking lie and was angry and awake for the rest of the night. I told him the next day to pass on the message that if she ever talks like that about me again i will be dealing with her. He was very sheepish and said ok. I know for a fact he will say nothing.

The reason I want to talk to her with him is that I want to make sure she is told in no uncertain terms that she will NOT talk to me like that ever again. He would just tell me he had spoken to her but wouldn't have. I fully expect an angry call from her mother but I'm happy to give her the wrath of my hormonal, no alcohol, no nicotine and no caffeine rage too!!

Forgot to add, he won't say she's not allowed in the house, she can flounce out for up to two blissful weeks at a time, and he is beside himself calling her nonstop. He really panics that she won't come back. He's also, I suspect, a bit scared of the ExW.

I'm sorry for your losses too, Catsmother. Miscarriage sucks big time. FX for this bub.

Sorry to ramble on and I have absolutely NO proof of this but she went ballistic at my much adored cat moving in when I did, she hadn't been 'consulted.' within 2mths he had gone from a fairly healthy cat to dead. He had some symptoms consistent with poisoning but at the time the vet said it wouldn't help him to test and let's just leave it as I was so distraught. It didn't help that this was two months after my first baby loss. I was in bits anyway. I'm not thinking her but the family? I'd be lying if I said it hadn't crossed my mind.

This is crazy ....... he wouldn't be telling her she wasn't 'wanted' or 'welcome' or whatever, she'd only be unwelcome if she continues to behave like a cow to you.

I also don't understand why he's scared of the ex ... okay, she sounds like a scary person generally I get that, but now SD's 18, his 'working' relationship with the ex - short of life and death emergencies concerning SD - is over. He must surely make arrangements to see SD directly with her and not with her mother. In other words, the ex can mouth off all she likes, but his relationship with SD is now theirs alone and none of the ex's business in practical terms. He should just be able to ignore the ex.

I DO understand this whole 'oh dear, better not 'upset' the stepkids or they might not want to see me' crap - because I still see elements of it too with my own DP and adult stepkids. It can get bloody ridiculous and there's certainly a lot of eggshell walking over all sorts of stuff where any other member of the family would be called out - and it would be done and dusted and forgotten in 10 minutes. However, thankfully, I've never had to put up with the level of verbal abuse you have (any verbal abuse in this house has tended to be directed at their dad) and I think even my DP would have to bloody well do something if mine ever sunk to those depths.

So I see why you'd also want to be present at any talks if you can't trust him to man up about this .... am a bit worried about you though if SD perceives your presence as you 'putting him up to it' and gives you yet more grief.

But ...... if your DP won't says what needs to be said (I mean, is he proud that his daughter is a foul mouthed cow ?!?) how does he imagine this situation resolving itself ? What if she never stops ? What if she takes another 3 or 4 years before she grows up ? ....... IMO, any further verbal attack would be too much. I don't understand why he thinks it's acceptable for you to have to put up with this ? ....

... and I'm afraid I think he's being really selfish and pathetic. He's basically putting his fear of 'losing' SD ahead of your health and well-being. Furthermore there's another child coming into the family who could also be affected by seeing their mother treated like this - by both their sibling, and, by default, their father - does he think that's right, that the baby grows up thinking it's okay to talk to you like shit ?

In reality, I don't expect he'd 'lose' SD at all. She'd probably strop off for a while but would be back as soon as she wanted something as you say she's driven by material stuff. In the past, if her dad has pandered to her hissy fits by paying her lots of attention, it probably boosts her ego too. I'm not suggesting it would be nice or easy but he should let her strop off if she takes offence, because you and I, and anyone with an ounce of common sense would know that her dad had said nothing unreasonable to her because it's not unreasonable to expect basic courtesy towards your partner.

This whole 'I might lose her' stuff ..... he needs to ask himself does he actually want a relationship with someone as rude and nasty as that ? I mean, why? Sure, he wants a good relationship with his child - as most parents do .... but right now, while she behaves like this, that is NOT what he's got. He's clinging on to some farce of a relationship where he's being walked all over - and while that's all very well if he was single, he has chosen to embark upon a committed relationship with you, and have a baby with you, and he has no right whatsoever to impose the nasty bullying disrespectful bile of his daughter upon you because he's decided it's better for him to allow his pregnant partner to be upset, rather than him facing the possible consequences of having a straight talking and honest conversation with someone who is an adult and who should know better.

I feel very angry for you ..... his attitude is so disloyal. Who knows, she might actually respond to a no holds barred talk with her dad if he finally shows some assertiveness ? And if she does strop, it will not be the end of the world because it would be extremely unlikely that she'd stay away for good. And if she did, he acts like the grown up and keeps in touch by sending texts, mails, letters, cards on a regular basis - lighthearted, telling her about his news, asking after her so she knows he's thinking of her still, but making no concessions re: her attitude to you. It's not such a big ask after all, because there's NO earthly reason you deserve this. He might even find that he ends up with an improved relationship because SD will have been given food for thought and may just act on that when she realises dad isn't going to be the pushover he usually is - i.e. such a talk might just be the wake up call she needs to start growing up.

He needs to think 'short term pain - long term gain' ...... and he also needs to think about your emotional well being right now.

If he won't do that, then I don't know what to suggest ..... if I'd been treated the way you've been and my partner had made silly excuses, and rewarded her with a bloody £4k car (10 times the original budget!) and prevaricated about speaking very firmly to her then it'd be a nail in the coffin of my relationship as I think any respect I had left for him would evaporate. Sorry to be doom and gloom - I just don't know if I could live like that, knowing he'd chosen not to protect me when really he's the only person in any position to do so. It's all very well if you blew your top at her, but unless DP is on the same page and makes it absolutely clear then she'll laugh in your face.

OMG Fack ..... must admit, I'd not be able to push that thought from my mind either. Can't imagine how you've coped since living with that lingering suspicion .... if it was something to do with SD's family, I'd have an extremely hard time seeing her if I thought her outburst was what had prompted them to do such a thing. Who the hell goes 'ballistic' at an animal ? .... and how did her dad react to that spoilt brat performance ?

(again, I had a hitherto healthy cat die very suddenly right in front of me within 10 minutes - possibly poison - it's just awful, but understand no post mortem because it wouldn't bring them back would it ? Though I had no suspicion of any foul play. Am very sorry)

Yes, he needs to man up. I've, up till now, been very wary of giving her any ammunition which she can use against me. I won't be cast as the wicked stepmother. He did once ask her why she didn't like me, had I ever been nasty to her? Been anything but smiley and kind to her? She said no and got a bit tearful, said she didn't know what it was but she just didn't like me.

She compared me to a local money grabber we all know, nicknamed the black widow as she moves in on men at vulnerable times like when a partner has died. She's done very well financially out of this. She really sees herself as a tragic victim in some Cinderella type story.

To be fair he stood up to one member of the exes family for badmouthing me and sending nasty texts to a work colleague of mine. They stopped seeing him completely but that just strengthened his fear that SD would do the same.

I imagine the scenario in this talk will involve me asking what last wknd was all about and I'd like her to explain why she thinks it's acceptable. What has merited all this rage at me? I think she will promptly burst into tears and leave, daddy will tell me we shouldn't have said anything and run after her and ten minutes later there will be a threatening call from the ex. It pisses me off so much that I know this and that I am deemed as not worthy of an opinion due to not being part of the original set up.

I haven't actually been able to think about my poor dcat being poisoned for longer than a second. It would destroy me. It only really occurred to me after I'd buried him but even if poisoning was proved it doesn't mean THEY did it.

DP said she was being silly, he's just a cat. She claimed to be allergic to him even though she has an identical breed. I can't imagine the sort of person that could do that but then neither do I understand rape, assault, bullying, theft and all the other crimes that family have committed over the years.

I'd get that house up for sale for a start, I think the fact that you are in the original family home won't be helping.

As for your dp, I don't honestly know how you are putting up with a man who is happy to see you treated this way. I'd be making it clear that it won't continue as it's no way for your child to witness you being treated.

I don't know if it would work, but would he consider counselling with you ? He just doesn't seem to see the enormity of this ridiculous and easily avoidable situation and its impact on you .... nor does he recognise the merits of 'tough love' parenting which many of us myself included have had to apply (albeit with a heavy heart) when our kids were behaving atrociously (and old enough to know better).

He needs to accept that there may well be tears ..... of embarrassment (at being called out on being a bitch, being immature), of self-pity, of anger that her princess role isn't being respected .... but they won't kill her FFS. Lots of people, adults included, cry when they're caught out and asked to justify unacceptable behaviour. Either consciously or subconsciously it's kind of like a defence mechanism, so you appear more vulnerable, and therefore your critic will go easier on you and perhaps take pity. He also needs to accept that there may well be a short(ish) period of no contact - again, that won't kill him although I'm not suggesting it'll be pleasant of course. But so long as he keeps in touch superficially - and doesn't back down on what should be perfectly achievable minimum standards of behaviour - then there's every chance she'll have to 'come round' and agree to play nicely if she wants daddy to keep bankrolling her, and, hopefully too, because deep down, she does actually have feelings for him. In fact, it might also do her good to hear how much she hurts him each time she slags you off - after all, he loves you, and it's horrid to hear someone you love being verbally attacked with such venom ... I doubt he'd stand it from anyone else.

The ex's family .... who gives a stuff what they say or think. If they're as bad as you say they are most people probably have the measure of them already and recognise when they're shit stirring. Threats etc., and you go to the police.

But your DP needs to get his head round everyone in his immediate family and how they're all entitled to consideration and respect. It's not right or fair that you're having to pay the price for his crap parenting - where, it sounds like she's been pretty used to getting what she wants, doing what she wants, saying what she wants ... with never any consequence or criticism. And sod the bloody 'original set up' ...... that was then this is now. SD is now an ADULT - supposedly - and she fits into the current set up which is DP, you, her and the new baby. You have every bit as much right to an opinion as DP about how things should be. If his ex calls him ranting hang up on her .... he sounds far too embroiled still worrying about an ex and her family when they split up over a decade ago!

Maybe a professional could help him understand how he's short changing you and how he's making an already bad situation ten times worse by being such a doormat.

Oh .... and until I felt he had my back on all of this, there's no way I'd want to tell SD about the pregnancy.

I actually suggested that, Lunar. I've been eyeing up local properties (Victorian instead of new build, sigh ) I'd like us to get a joint mortgage too but I've just started a new FT job with no matty allowance (I was PG when I started but didn't know so won't be entitled to it) so it's a way off before that can happen. It will though, I'll have my day soon enough. Time to do up the current house would be good for now.

The reason I've stuck it out is 99% of the time DP and I get on great. We literally only fight about her. We have the same sense of humour, outlook of life and both ambitious. When she's not being a brat he's a fantastic Dad. He occasionally reminds me of the father in Nanny McPhee,bumbling, not sure what to do when they're naughty and all a bit 'there, there, hush now.'

Yep I've told him we need to go to counselling, he's not keen. He needs to learn to let go of the past. Tricky, I know as his exes other kids were partly raised by him and he misses them. That was their choice though, not mine. He hadn't had a GF until me and I upset the status quo. Ex has complained that the house is worth more now than when he bought her out. She's still very much involved and loves nothing more than telling DP what grand gift he will be going halves on next for SD.

Ex has even come into his work place and shut the door in my face so she could bawl him out over me!!
Yes, counselling, I'm going to look up a number right now.

My gob is getting ever more smacked with each new post you write Fack ..... course the house is worth more than at some point in the past, so bloody what, most people's homes are worth more than they were 5, 7, 10 years ago or whatever. Bet the ex hasn't contributed to its maintenance or improvement since he bought her out has she - thought not - if she's angling for some sort of 'compensation' for any increase in value. The ex can think what she likes but DP shouldn't be giving her a moment of his time - she starts on about stuff like that and he hangs up or walks away, as appropriate. And she can 'tell' him all she likes about how she'd like him to go halves, but he doesn't have to do anything for her any more as SD is an ADULT - and even when she was still a child, he didn't have to agree to everything she demanded !

(sorry, not shouting at you !)

He's giving the ex space in his head - and therefore in his life, and yours, that he doesn't need to give her. She's only involved because he lets her be involved. It's crazy .... do you think he's literally scared of her, not as in scared of what she thinks, but scared that if he doesn't still let her into his life, her very unpleasant and criminal family will see threats through if one of their own complains about him ?

As for not being 'keen' on counselling - tough bloody shit. You're not very 'keen' on living in this real life episode of Shameless either.

, oh so sorry Cats, I can tell this is really winding you up. I think he knows that deep down the family wouldn't physically harm him, it's all
my fault, luring him away from them with my feminine wiles. They don't like me and they show that by refusing to see him. I think what he's scared of is not doing what the ex says and upsetting SD. Ex will have no problem saying I wanted to buy you a Mac but your Dad said no.

He also doesn't believe the major crime that occurred that culminated in a conviction of years. It was a 'set-up.' He just can't believe that someone he raised could commit such a heinous crime.

Re. the house, ex never worked in all their years together, he was raising her kids by other men but he handed over half the house cost (after a new evaluation) with good grace. She said think yourself lucky I'm not touching your business or pension. He is a bit scared of her in a 'Christ, she's batshit' kind of way too.

Laughed so hard at the Shameless reference. They actually make those characters look honest and hard working pillars of the community.

If I had dared speak to my fathers partner like that when I was that age, I would have been told on no uncertain terms that I was not welcome till I sorted my attitude out.

As said by PP he needs to think of you and the baby now. Good luck.

Thanks Calico. I did and still do have a lovely relationship with both my stepmums. It didn't occur to me not to like them just because they were with my Dad. I guess some of us aren't wired that way.