16 year old DSD and associated costs...

[notharriet]

My DSD is 16. She has been pretty much estranged since August really with maybe three coffee meets with DH in that time always when she wants some money for something. There is a huge back story and possibly the easiest way to explain it is that she has been subjected to alienation techniques from her mother since being very small. From the time they divorced when DSD was 8 and until around the age of 12, she was with DH and mum 50/50 then at about 13 it all became very difficult and has never really been smooth from there.

What has happened today has left DH (and me) feeling confused as to what to do for the best. i.e. what is the right thing to do Vs being a mug.

So, she has asked him if they can meet up because “I’m about to turn 16 and go to college and at this age I need certain things from you that Mum can’t afford as my costs have gone up”. Now, DH pays CSA of course (around £380 per month I think), and he pays for her mobile phone contract which I think is about £30. Although she decided not to use the phone anymore when mum bought a more flashy one which mum pays for so this is essentially money down the drain.

Mum works very part time in a shop so there isn’t really cash available there. Although, they have a very large house and holidays, drives a BMW etc. so we think that Mum’s other ex might pay her quite a bit in CSA for their son. The reason I'm telling you that is because they are not on the bread line although I'm sure it's not easy.

Anyway... because we don’t have a teenager at home (as much as we’d have liked to have her in our lives!!), and have no idea about costs, we don’t want to assume that DSD is bullshitting and wonder if her costs have indeed increased and if we may be missing something? My head is telling me that at 16 must be when costs actually go down because they start to have their own life/ income etc. My thoughts are that DH could pay for half of any large items or expenses (books lists? Stationary?) but pay directly for the items. Which I don’t think he’d mind as he has always been happy to cover his responsibilities and if there really are sudden large costs, we don’t want DSd to not be able to have the things she needs. But I think she’s going to go more down the route of a regular amount of money paid to her for non descript items... which I want to help him to prepare for.

Am I wrong to think she should have a job in a supermarket or something? If it’s socialising/ clothes/ make up that she wants to be able to afford? I imagine her mum is at the end of her tether with the associated costs of a 16 year old girl and don’t expect that the £380 that DH pays goes very far if she’s having to cover make up, trips out, visits to her boyfriend who lives 80 miles away etc... But the dilemma we have is that if DH was involved DSD’s life he would be telling her to get a job. Because he isn’t, he doesn’t really have any control over any of it and it seems odd to pay a 16 year old pocket money when she could work. We have a little spare money, we’re not on a shoe string, but we don’t have a great deal and my opinion is that even if we did, I don’t agree with giving kids money for nothing. Even my 8 year old has to do a couple of chores for her £3 a week.

So, if you’ve got this far, my questions are:

Did you costs go up for your teenager when they started college?
What kinds of things were they?
Did they get a job?
Did you pay them pocket money?
If you are separated from their other parent – did the NRP pay for additional items for college on top of CSA and if so, what?

Thanks x

Thanks sethspeaks. That is a very useful insight. I will share it with DH.

I have DDs in Yr11 and Yr12. We give them £45/month for all of their clothes, travel, toiletries etc. It would be £50 but they chose to give us £5/month back towards their phone contracts in order to have more interesting phones than we were prepared to fund.

The big difference between Yr11 and Yr12 for my older DD has been that she can wear her own clothes to school now. She does buy these from her allowance, but supplements with birthday money etc. We also gave her £200 to buy new clothes in August when she got her GCSE results (I'm adding that bit in case that's a possibility for you).

Neither of my DDs has any paid employment but they do a lot of voluntary work which is relevant to their intended careers. They could get weekend jobs if they needed more money and I suspect that DD2 will do so next year when she is in Yr12.

The other thing your DP might want to check with his ex is whether she'd be happy for him to give their DD some more money separately. Some parents limit the cash they give their kids as a way of trying to reign them in - eg if they're possibly spending it on alcohol or drugs. Or they dock pocket money as a sanction for some misbehaviour. If your DP doesn't know much about his DD's life, he would be wise to check with his ex that he's not undermining her parenting if he does give more money to his DD.

TranquilityofSolitude - can I ask, if you were in a separated parent situation and that £50 was coming from a CSA contribution, would you think that the remaining £330 would cover the essentials that you pay for e.g. clothes for school, books, travel etc.?

yellowdaisies - I absolutely don't want this to be an ex bashing thread but your post did make me chuckle. There is no way Dsd's mum would ever have these kinds of worries. Thanks for the thought though. I agree that if my DD's Dad started giving her a large amount of pocket money, when I'm trying to teach her responsibilities and about managing money I'd be cross.

Completely understand why you wouldn't want her alone in the house, but if you were okay about her being there when you were in and happy for her to do chores, then DH could still lay that option on the table for her to consider .... her loss if she rejects the idea. He couldn't be accused of being 'mean' (though can imagine a stroppy teen doing so nonetheless) as he'd offered her extra money in exchange for fair work and the onus would be on her to get over whatever disgruntlement (is that even a word?) is stopping her from coming round. Actually, given that she may well have pushed herself into a corner re: not coming round, the chores for money idea may just give her the 'excuse' she needs to start doing so again - whilst 'saving face' if you see what I mean ?

I'd only buy actual things for her like a travel ticket. And I would cancel the phone contract or get the phone back and sell it.

All of the costs should be covered by the £380 he pays in maintenance.

Oh yes damage limitation, trying to cover all bases, all a very normal reaction. We want to keep things around us safe and aggravation and stress low. Totally get it and done it in spades. You're trying to manage a situation where so little of it is within your control and it's awful when we feel we don't have that in our own world and own home.

Re working IME it wasn't that easy. I too thought oh just get yourself some work (like I had years back from age 13). But then realised that the laws are different now, as are employers. Plus I had to take into account who she was and for all the big front, bravado and apparent confidence she was actually totally lacking in confidence to even go and enquire. It manifested as a shruggy I don't want to attitude (infuriating) but cut everything away and there was a very vulnerable and unsure girl. Until then I'd been saying "ffs just go into the shops and say do you have any jobs going, it's not hard". And "well if you won't get a job then you'll have to do without false eyelashes won't you. Up to you". And it would escalate from there! I'd end up sobbing on the phone to my best friend.

Seth, that makes a lot of sense. She is incredibly brazen, but I do wonder if what you suggest may be a factor because although she's confident of her appearance etc. she isn't confident of her abilities or character. Which could hinder her in finding a job.

I am going to suggest that he offers to go around town with her handing in CVs as that would be a great opportunity to help in a meaningful way that isn't just handing out cash.

I think he probably knows that her confidence needs building rather than just "GET A JOB" but how to do this when what rare meetings they do have are fraught.

Really trying hard not to out myself here so am being careful how I describing the various people I am talking about. But for perspective the girl I talk about was not mine, she came to live with me during a troubled time for her.

He would love a relationship with her but it is hard when she will only meet him for brief meetings which revolve around asking for money and all the rest of the time he can't get so much as a text response from her

My DP has a very similar experience with his 16 year old. I think it must be a phase. Anyway it's reassuring, if depressing, to realise it's not only here that this happens.

I can't believe what a mirror situation this is! Yes cv's round town! I did a girly shopping trip and nudged her in the lunchtime cafe to ask about the job that was in the window. She asked and got turned down for having no waitressing experience. Days later that translated to me completely humiliating and bullying her in public and slipped in practically undetectable the actual issue of her being dyslexic and worried that she would write orders wrong and get the sack.

Aww that's a shame Seth. She definitely doesn't have any issues with reading or writing fortunately.

A big problem is that because of all the lies and manipulation in the past, as much as I care for the kid, my default is to assume she's lying when she comes up with obstacles or reasons for her not being able to do whatever the expectation of her is. Which is why i don't get involved anymore and let DH make the decisions - he'll always forgive her no mater what because of the blood ties

If he's paying £30 a month for a phone she doesn't use, he could certainly suggest to her that he cancels it and the money goes towards something else that she needs instead now she's 16.

It's a contract and unfortunately she's already sold the phone and spent the cash

He would love a relationship with her but it is hard when she will only meet him for brief meetings which revolve around asking for money and all the rest of the time he can't get so much as a text response from her

Yeap, being the NRP is hard when it comes to teenagers.
Getting away from the money issue though, my dd was forever never wanting to see her father again during the teenage years. And then a couple of months would go past and she'd be finding excuses to see him again. They need and want to have a relationship with their NRP, it is just hard impossible to keep it on an even keel.

That's reassuring Coyoacan. Are they close now?

It's a contract and unfortunately she's already sold the phone and spent the cash - That is a pretty crap way to treat a gift

When does the contract finish? Could he say he's not prepared to give her any more whilst he's still paying the contract for the phone she's sold, but that he'll consider giving her some more for something else once it's finished (if she can convince him that she's now more grown up and wouldn't misuse something she's been given in the future)

Yes Coy - are they close now? I always say to my DH that when I was a teen I'd feel like I "never wanted to see my dad again" on a regular basis, but because I lived with him it was kind of a given that I had to. It's too easy for them when parents are separated to just run every time something happens that hey don't like.

I don't think it's up until December - seem to remember it was around xmas time the year before last and on 24 months.

But it is a good example to give her "I wanted to help you by paying for your mobile and you sold it leaving me paying for it each month" hence I'm reluctant to give you money.. maybe.

Sorry, notharriet - I went back to doing what I was supposed to be doing when I was on MN and forgot to check back.

In answer to your question, we are not in a separated parent situation but I would expect the money you're already paying to cover the kind of things my DDs spend their allowance on. I guess what I was trying to say is that there is a possibility of an increase in costs associated with not wearing uniform, which is generally a very cheap way of clothing a child. Also that you might be able to meet the extra as a reward for good GCSE results (for example) rather than upping your contribution.

Best of luck with your situation. I think it's great that you are giving so much thought to this.

Her Mum will continue to get child benefit for her if she's in college. Apart from possible travelling costs I would struggle to suggest what the 'extra' costs would be.
Perhaps she's thinking that she'll need more money for clothes and going out with friends? If so, I'm not sure that it's fair that her dad should bankroll her lifestyle choices.

Thanks tranquility!

Stepping backing and detaching yourself is definitely the right thing for you to do.

And the phone contract thing and how she has behaved over it is not on, and definitely an example for your dp to use and negotiate over.

It's not about just smoothing things over and giving her everything she asks for, it's about showing her where she has been at fault and where she needs to own her behaviour and the consequences of it.

And I agree with Coyocan about the nrp/teen relationship. IME they will repeatedly find ways of getting reassurance that their nrp parent loves them and will be there for them. In all sorts of obscure ways.

I like the idea of telling her to wait till the phone contract is up and then I maybe give her the £30 per month. That way DH wont feel out of pocket as he is already paying that and she will be £30 per month better off. But I would absolutely not give her another penny after that phone stunt and cite that as the reason. I would let her flounce too if she wants to , because come December she will soon get over it as she is unlikely to leave herself £30 per month worse off so she can continue sulking (which no doubt she will). I can't think of any reason and ime with my own children that she actually needs any more money because she is now 16. Your DH pays very reasonable amount in CSA and religiously by sound of it and the extra for the phone (which could contnue in above scenario and as others have said her mother will still get child benefit if she is still in education.