Help/Advice needed...

[duckbill2015]

Hello,
I have joined this forum for some advice really - hope you don't mind answering!

To cut a very long story short my Fiance and his ex broke up 3 years ago and they have 2 children (aged 7 & 10).

When the break up first happened they were staying with my fiance every weekend - due to work commitments this changed to every other weekend but the weekends he didn't have them, he would have them Thursday after School until Saturday Morning.

We have since moved to be closer to work as the pressures of work was getting more and more, but the routine has never changed. What this does mean is that on the Thurs-Saturday routine my fiance stay at his mums on a Thursday night when he picks the kids up from school and drops them to school Friday morning, does a 1.5 hour commute to work then leaves work to pick them up for another 1.5 hour commute back to our house. This means they get back around 7:30/8pm depending on traffic and we have to leave Saturday morning around 9/10am to drop them home. This means there is no quality time with the children on these weeks.

With this in mind, he has spoken to his ex about changing the routine to be every other weekend but from a Thursday through to Sunday 6/7pm. His ex is saying she doesn't think that this is a good routine for the kids, but won't give a reason why. She wants him to have them Friday to Saturday at 10pm every week, so basically 1 night every week. This of course doesn't work as it is cutting the time with the children even shorter. The relationship between both parents is not great as they cannot agree on routines. The mother likes to play the 'primary parent' card and to emphasise points such as 'i will tell the school to contact the police if you pick them up from school without my say'.

We also have the Children for half of the school holidays, when the last discussion happened regarding dates the response was 'Ill leave this with my solicitor' I never received anything

Also for a bit of background, my fiance pays nearly £1k per month which is 30% above the required amount as per CSA calculator (none of this £2.73 per week I am reading!). Now his ex is also saying, he can only have the children in the school holidays if it doesn't affect her maintenance money she will be receiving. Half of a mortgage is also paid monthly where mum and kids live.

I am not a parent myself but do understand the needs and pressures of being a parent and also what a child needs. It feels like the mum has all the cards and calls all the shots. I am a woman, but feel this is all wrong, surely as a good Dad that wants the best for his Children is a good thing, and a Mother shouldn't be able to behave this way and dictate everything on her terms?

Any advice/help welcome! x

Wow Duckbill, that's not an easy life for anyone other than the EW! If she won't agree to his reasonable requests, especially as it's in the interests of his DC, the only answer is to go back to the courts to re-negotiate access facility! Is he paying £1k a month plus half the mortgage? That sounds generous considering there are only 2 DC, and will surely go in his favour when applying for more reasonable/appropriate access timing!

(none of this £2.73 per week I am reading!). I actually get £3.50 per week from my ex under the old CSA scheme!

The mother does not hold all the cards but it is expensive to regain any control.

First off he has a choice to either pay the maintenance or reduce it down to the recommended amount. But actually I am a bit confused by this. When he has spoken to his ex about the contact has he advised that he would like to reduce the payments accordingly? If he has been having them half the holidays and hasn't reduced it before not sure why she thinks this may change now?

Were the arraignments put in place by court or were they agreed between them? I can actually see that from her point of view she may be thinking why should she change arrangements again to suit the both of you and give you both a weekend off. Whilst I agree that once a week and mainly why they are sleeping seems a bit odd but she may be thinking it is better for the children to have less contact more often than waiting 2 weeks between them seeing him.

If they can not agree then the only option is mediation then courts if that does not work.

Hello,
Thank you for your replies.

So the maintenance money is nearly on £1000 per month which according to the CSA recommendations this is 30% over. The mortgage payment is on top of this, although my fiancée does own the property with his ex so this is compulsory. There is another issue regarding wanting to sell the property which the ex doesn't want to do.

Based on routines/having the children extra in the holidays the maintenance will stay the same, my fiancée has never said he will take payment away from her if he has the kids more often. Ever.

The routine wasn’t determined by courts it was offered by my fiancée as a fair and reasonable agreement which was accepted well over a year ago… Both parties decided the current routine doesn’t work for the children, as on the current Thursday-Saturday routine the time with the children is spent travelling or in bed…

The routine the mum has suggested means that we will have the children for 24 hours once a week. Which is 96 hours on a 4 week months. We have suggested Thursday to Sunday every other week. I don’t see how this wouldn’t benefit the children?

The eldest child has been spoken to about our suggested routine and was much happier with it than the others suggested or currently on.

The problem may be that she has had it so good, why would she want to change to something else. However we want to change, within reason, but the ex cant see reason in change. So any changes will no doubt go through courts which is a shame.

Without sounding arsy, it feels like no matter how much we do or don’t do, the upper hand lies with the ex. To get something agreed means moving heaven and earth.

As a mum, I agree with you, when it comes to child arrangements for care and contact, the primary carer, usually the mother, does seem to have far more sway.

The fact that in your case, your fiancées ex is throwing her weight around, threatening to involve the school and have your fiancée arrested, is an indication that she is not putting the DCs welfare first.

Does your DP have parental responsibility - is he on the DCs birth certificates? If so, then in law, he is viewed in exactly the same way as their mother; equally capable and equally responsible, unless proven otherwise. The school cannot withhold a child from parent, but are often put in difficult positions by warring parents.

If your DP isn't able to discuss the DCs welfare with his ex, then I suggest he looks into the possibility of mediation. This is a pre-requisite for court anyway, so if it doesn't work, at least he'll be a step closer to a court ordered resolution.

It does seem a lot of chopping nd changing in a short space of time.mediation does seem the best route to go hopefully then its a regular routine for the dcs.

Sorry Elliebellys, what seems like chopping and changing? The Friday - Saturday routine or the routine in general?

Just in 3 years,the dcs have had a few changes with going from ew to eow etc.mediation would be best,that way all of you will then hopefully settle into a new regular pattern.would exw be willing to attend?

I hope so, she doesnt like spending money so my Fiancee has said he will pay for it, he just wants to do whatever is needed....

I agree there's been a lot of chopping and changing, that seems to have been to do with your dp wanting the changes because of his work, not because of anything to do with his children.

She may well be pissed off that he thinks it's ok to chop and change depending on what suits him and his work.

That's not to say that a Thursday to Sunday and half of all the holidays isn't a good arrangement to have. As an RP I would be very happy with that.

I think you need to focus on contact and getting that sorted via mediation.

The finance side doesn't need to come into it and will just muddy the waters. Presumably they had a financial agreement on divorce and what he is paying is what was agreed.

And try not to get caught up in the cards that an Rp may hold, and whether that's right or wrong. There are lots of injustices with the whole system, don't focus on that, focus on the important thing and that is ensuring the children retain a good level of contact with their Dad and true shared care between their parents happens. And that means mediation as a first step.

Hi Seth, I dont agree with your first comment as the routine is changing as the mum wants it changed also not just because of work... Work has to come in somewhere because if it didnt he wouldnt be able to afford to give the mum what he does. The routine we are suggesting gives us more time with the children which is for their best intrest as well as ours as we love spending time with them not just 24 hours....

He doesnt think its ok to change depending on his work, also when she wants something to change we go along with it...

Yes mediation is for sure the way forward

Are they actually divorced? There sound like a lot of financial lose ends that need tying up which would normally be sorted out during a divorce. (Or were they never married?)

He's best to keep discussions on care patterns and money separate. Regarding the weekend, why doesn't he say he wants to stick with the whole weekend EOW, but ask his ex what else she'd like him to have them, given it's best to avoid too much traveling for them.

Hello Yellowdaisies,

They were never married, there has been a lot of financial benefits for her aside the payments she receives every motnhs.

He has tried that, all she keeps saying is every friday after school to saturday evening every week is all she will agree to, which is silly and does not benefit the children as the evening will be taken up travelling then 8 hours sleep a morning/afternoon together, where homework and quality time, days out etc needs to be taken into account and then travelling again back home... It just doesnt make any sense to me...

He has never spoken about money with routine this is all new to him where she is saying she is only happy for him to have the kids in the holidays if it doesnt affect the maintenance

But you said in the 3rd paragraph of your op that it was contact every weekend, changed by him because of his work commitments.

Then in the 4th paragraph that he then moved because of work, and now wants the arrangement changed again.

Changes have been driven by him and what's fits with his work.

^^ This will be thrown at your DP if you go to court OP. Your DH was responsible for reducing contact and moving away from his children. I'm not judging, my DH also moved away from his DD to a new job (we're going back now but that's a whole other story) but he need he needs to be prepared for it.

Likewise though, your DP needs to make sure of all of the threats she has made, especially those about holiday contact being dependant on maintenance. Courts take a very dim view of RP's who deem their children to be 'Pay per View'.

Certainly I think it sounds like you're in a place where your next step needs to be mediation and a court order. I'd sort the financial stuff out at the same time if I were you. If you're getting married and want to have children of your own, your DP paying massively over the odds isn't going to be sustainable. The two issues are separate though; you need to go to court (mediation first) to sort contact and the CMS to sort maintenance.