partners ex....We don't do enough for her

[cake83]

my partner and I have been together over 2 years.

We're a blended family, 2 kids each (2 sets of twins)

We have my teenagers full.time and his 4 year olds every weekend plus holidays.

The little ones have their own room and everything they need with us.

Our agreement with partners ex has always been pick up kids Saturday morning 10am drop them home 630 Sunday and extra over holidays.

This has never been enough for partners ex, she now works sporadic Sundays til 8 and wants us to get the kids out of bed and drive them to hers when she finishes. We have done this a couple of times to help her out but said(and she agreed) that she would collect them as she was breaking their routine.

partner calls the little ones through the week also.

Ex has now decided we don't do enough. we offered to keep kids til Monday morning so she could get an early night after work and collect kids before we go to work. She point blank refuses.

Last weekend she refused to collect kids said we would have to drop them off then turned up at 2150 to get them out of bed. Is now saying unless we do as she says as she's the main care giver my partner can't have them at all.

We change the access to suit her, taking them extra nights fri-sun to save her money on childcare if she's working Saturday.

Nothing is enough for her. She now won't let partner speak to them on the phone and says we can't have them unless we do what she wants. its a constant battle with her to get things her way.

She is unstable, social services were involved when the kids were babies as she wasn't caring for them and now they're 4 they come to us unclean and in clothes too small and shoes too big.

We're at our whits end and don't know what we can do.

We don't want all this affecting the kids but they are clearly unsettled when we collect them but happy in their routine when we have them....

Any advice at this stage would be appreciated.

Thanks

Also, I know with our dsc, when mum works late her mum is at the dsc home to meet them, get them tea until mum can take over. Is that an option if it's only once in a while? Now I know a lot will say it's not nan's responsibility but it's better than tired kids

I should point out that I was a single mum for 11 years to my girls and I worked full time since they were 6 month. You just get on with it. I managed to arrange child care around working unsociable hours.

This is not the issue here.

The issue is that there was a firm agreement in place that worked fine, partners ex wife now chooses to work these shifts, also absolutely fine it's the chopping and changing to suit herself. Nothing is good enough, we offer to keep them til Monday morning so she can have an early night and that's not good enough and as soon as things don't go her way she restricts access. Using the children as a weapon.

It should also be pointed out that she had a partner living with her until a few months ago when he was fed up of being the live in babysitter while she went on nights out several times a week.

our lives revolve around our children all of them, we build our work life around them, they are not an accessory to be picked up and dropped and used as weapons to get our own way.

We just want what's best for them.

If she is unstable and not caring for the children properly still is there a reason why your partner hasn't actually gone for residence of his two children? To be honest reading your post that would be my main priority.

Ditto Fur6y

Because unstable or not she's still the kids mum, nobody wants to break up a family we just want to resolve things so that the kids are happy.

If she is going to use the kids as a weapon then sounds like you need to go through court sooner rather than later. Kids getting out of bed at 9pm will not be an option when they start school so better sorted now.
Courts generally try to keep things as close to the current situation as possible you are entitled to free time with a solicitor who can advise you what is likely to happen. Also try to keep communication is text or email form as an audit trail so thatnyounhave evidence that you arentrying to be accomodating

Is the issue here that on Monday morning, you & your DH leave for work early & you expect his ex to get up early to collect the twins as there is no childcare in place until the afternoon? You've mentioned up thread it's an afternoon slot at nursery. So you keeping the DC on the Sunday night (so she can get an early night) means she still has to get up v early as both you & your DH leave (I'm guessing) before 8am?

If I've read this situation correctly I can see why she'd rather collect them on the Sunday night instead of having to get up v early to collect because you have both got to leave for work.

Unless you are offering to have the DC until Monday morning & are then responsible for getting them to appropriate childcare etc. then the extended overnight stay isn't hugely helpful IMO. If I'd worked a 12 hr shift on Sunday & was then expected to get up v early to collect my DD (who had no plans/place to be on the Monday morning) id rather get her late on Sunday & have a more relaxed/late morning on the Monday.

You may prefer that however when the kids are up at 530am no matter what time they go to bed surely it is better for them to be in bed at a reasonable time on the Sunday rather than being put to bed because they ask as they are so tired then being dragged out of bed and transported to their mums late on the Sunday?

When my children were small I got up early to get them after working til 2-3am rather than dragging them out of bed.

When ex wife works during the week she uses a nanny service....surely said nanny could be put into place so that kids could be dropped off at a reasonable time on the Sunday then?

There is never going to be a right or wrong answer given that all parents work differently I know this.....at the end of the day the bigger issue here is that ex wants people to suit her when it should be give and take .....its all take

So are you expecting the ex to collect the DC to allow you to leave for work & at what time do you expect her to be there to collect? What you did with your DC, or what I do with my DD is irrelevant - what exactly are you expecting of her on the Monday morning when there is no nursery in the morning & you & your DH leave for work?

We had my partners mum stay with them til she could collect them. Regardless she picked them up at nearly 10pm.

As I said there will never be a right or wrong answer to this as everyone's parenting techniques are different.

I'm not here for an argument I was here for advice. No doubt you would have stopped the kids seeing their dad too under the circumstances....

Because unstable or not she's still the kids mum, nobody wants to break up a family we just want to resolve things so that the kids are happy.

Are you serious? You have stated:-

She is unstable

social services were involved when the kids were babies as she wasn't caring for them

now they're 4 they come to us unclean and in clothes too small and shoes too big.

And you think that this isn't your biggest problem? Christ almighty tackle all of this first. This isn't about breaking up a family, this is about making sure those children are cared for properly. Just because your husband is the NRP doesn't mean those kids aren't his family. The same as they would still be their mothers family if your husband stepped up and made sure his children were being properly cared for and provided for which they obviously aren't at the moment.

Just to be clear, my partner pays maintenance, more than is required. There mum uses it for who knows what.

We have clothes/shoes that fit at our house, we regularly buy more clothes as they go back to their mums and are never seen again.

Yes I have said the above but surely taking help is better than having the kids taken away....she won't take help. If you offer help it gets thrown back at you too.

I wasn't meaning to suggest he wasn't paying maintenance what I meant is that they are obviously not being provided for properly at home.

Yes, I would think it would be better to accept help but some people just won't and by your own admission she isn't willing to accept the help that has been offered. In this particular case I really think that your husband needs to take a bit control and fight for his childrens right for a stable environment to be brought up in where they are adequately provided for and cared for.

Why is ss not still involved.

I think, based on what you've said, that it would be far better for you and DP to seek primary custody with liberal visitation for their mother. It sounds to me as if you have a much more stable home life and schedule. You wouldn't be 'breaking up' a family, you and DP are their family just as much as their mother is.

I think you need to stop thinking of it as 'taking the children away from their mother' and start thinking of it as 'giving the children the most stable home, which is with their father'. He's every bit as capable of giving them love and care as their mother is.

Ffs I can't believe there's so many step parent bashing replies that only consider the mother and not the children at all. The OP is clearly thinking if the children and not the mother when she suggests that they are picked up on Monday morning and so she should be. Who cares about the mothers wants, the children's NEEDS should come first and what they need is a decent, unbroken nights sleep.

Op I agree that you should go for a court order to put a stop to all this messing the children about.

Who cares about the mothers wants, the children's NEEDS should come first and what they need is a decent, unbroken nights sleep

so the OP retains the children overnight and returns them to their mother on the Monday morning.

Oh no, she can't do that. She has to work. Therefore the ex must do as she says and pick them up very early. Which means the ex should work a long shift, go to bed, get up at the crack of dawn and get the child to suit the ex and his partner.

If it goes to court, you'll both get it in the neck from a judge.

I personally wouldn't wake children at that time of night but I think the ex assumes it works best for her and the children.Hard as this is for you to relate to I think you need to just go with it for now but explore and offer other solutions for a Monday collection/drop off?

It is however worth considering mediation or court as the children are still so young.My Dhs ex was awful re contact and we bent overbacks placating but nothing worked.We finally, after years, went to court and it was the best solution for everyone as we had agreements that meant no conflict.I completely agree however that judges see through unreasonable people so it works if you have been then reasonable party.The judge is likely to see both sides - which is both parents struggling to balance work responsibilities.As a single mum its likely the judge will be empathic and will certainly not demand she changes work hours.They will also see the challenges of your circumstances but as a couple you may have additional resources and potentially more flexibility so this would be explored.

I would suggest you look at the long-term and see if you can propose solutions that will cope with school age children.Could your partner flex his work so that he starts later on a Monday? As a dad he would have some rights to request flexible working.

I think court can help in situations like this where parties can't find solutions themselves so don't fear the process.

*so the OP retains the children overnight and returns them to their mother on the Monday morning.

Oh no, she can't do that. She has to work. Therefore the ex must do as she says and pick them up very early. Which means the ex should work a long shift, go to bed, get up at the crack of dawn and get the child to suit the ex and his partner. *

Unless I am mistaken it is their mom that is refusing to pick them up at the arranged time on the Sunday evening and only went to pick them up when the OP and her DH did not give in and advised that if the mom did not collect them as arranged then the would stay.

I am a bit as to how OP is so in the wrong here - I must be missing something.

I, too, am rather bemused at the bashing OP and her partner are getting (from some).

In any situation, you just cannot make unilateral decisions about stuff which affects others, and for which you need their co-operation and assistance, WITHOUT discussing how it'll work first - and then, throw a strop when the other(s) concerned don't immediately agree to do things exactly your way.

In this particular situation, involving very young children, it's even more imperative for all the adults concerned to agree how the children will be cared for. It's NOT something the res parent can lay down the law about when the non-res parent is making an effort to accommodate what needs to be done and, at the same time, is also taking into consideration the detrimental effect of such small kids being woken up after they've been put to bed - especially when it seems so unnecessary.

If the ex is capable of collecting the children at just shy of 10pm in the evening then she could, in theory, go straight home from work instead, still get 6 or 7 hours sleep if she wanted to and get up at a not unreasonable time to collect them by 7am Monday morning - when they'd already be up (and presumably washed, dressed and fed). Getting up, say, at 6 to 6.30am to achieve this is hardly getting up at the 'crack of dawn' .... in any case, if they're usually up at 5.30am anyway, then regardless of the shift she'd worked the night before then she'd be woken up by them if they were at hers Sunday evening. Doing what the children's dad has suggested means a) that their sleep isn't disturbed, and b) that she's get an extra hour or so in bed. Maybe she doesn't want the 'inconvenience' of making herself presentable Mon morning to collect them or something ?? .... because otherwise, I can't see what the issue is given the various timings the OP's supplied.

Suggesting that the OP and her DP would 'get it in the neck' from a judge is therefore rather ridiculous when you actually stop and think about the logistics involved in this particular situation - as well as the fact that the father seems to be the only parent thinking about what would be best for the children. He hasn't refused to care for his kids while his ex is working - far from it - in fact he's readily offered to assume more responsibility for them, overnight, in order to allow them unbroken sleep.

I'd bloody well hope that actually, a decent and intelligent judge would berate the ex for using the children as weapons by obstructing contact because she hasn't got her own way (over something that may suit her for some reason) but which isn't ideal for them. The children have a right to a continued relationship with their non-res parent and I think it's bloody despicable to react the way she has - not to mention she's also cutting off her nose to spite her own face because now she'll have to find alternative childcare. That aside though, what on earth must those kids be thinking ? .... maybe as they're so young they won't have quite sussed it just yet but they will notice - obviously - if she continues to obstruct contact and wonder why they no longer see their dad. I'd love to know what explanation the ex has or will give them regarding that! It's very very emotionally damaging when kids are used like this by disgruntled parents lashing out at their ex.

I second starting the court process to try and sort this out. From personal experience - and given how long the process can drag on especially if ex throws every spanner she possibly can in the works it's best to start the ball rolling as soon as possible before things deteriorate even further. Your partner can self-rep but before you even get to court I've a feeling now that mediation must be attempted first.

bangs head on brick wall....

Mediation must be attempted, yes. Good luck with that. Neither side willing to compromise so it'll end up in court.

Out of interest, who moved?

And what compromise are you willing to offer? Will you take the children to school in the morning and have them the extra night?

And what compromise are you willing to offer?

But the OP did advise that they had agreed that the children could be picked up by mom at 8pm as agreed. It was mom that said they had to drop them off instead and that is why they offered the additional night

bangs head on brick wall.... - yes I should imagine that is what op and her DH are feeling

It isn't a compromise the mother wants - it is her way or she stops contact.

I'm banging my head on a wall too ....

I think, when you apply to the family court re: contact issues, it is they (i.e. 'the system') who insist these days that mediation must be attempted before the case is actually heard in court. If I'm wrong about that then I apologise - but if this issue did end up in court it is, under the circumstances, not necessarily a bad thing. Not that anyone would wish to end up in court of course but if it puts a stop to contact between the children and their non-res parent being obstructed then that is a positive thing.

Why would the DP taking the children to school on Mon morning be a 'compromise' ? My understanding of compromise is that both parties concerned 'give' a little in order where agreement can't be reached - neither may end up with exactly what they want, but on the other hand neither gets their own way entirely. Give and take, and all that.

Now, admittedly, I don't think the OP has explicitly explained why the children can't be taken to school on Monday morning by them but I suspect it's because neither of them can manage to do this around their work commitments ...

... on the other hand, the ex, if she collects them at 10pm, would be taking them to school anyway. She'd also be woken up by them at 5.30am anyway (so would be getting up then surely ?). I therefore can't see why she can't collect them from their dad's at 7am ? .... as I said before, doing it that way means their sleep isn't disrupted and she gets to stay in bed slightly longer. The only thing I can think of is that either she doesn't want to get dressed that early before coming out, or, when the kids wake at 5.30am, she doesn't actually get up herself and leaves them to their own devices - which, if correct, hardly endears her to me given they're so young.

Personally I would rather pick my kids up at 7am on Monday than 9/10pm Sunday night. For the kids sake. She would have them Monday morning after picking them up so the child care for that period would be the same. The mother will have them. Op When they start school in September, will you be able to take them to school. Can your DP or you change hours to do the school run?