Feel I've wasted everyone's time

[takayama]

Met DP 2 and a half years ago. He has 2 kids who live with him full time (no contact with their mother for years).

For a long time, our relationship was just the 2 of us, because he needed a break from childcare sometimes, so would spend it with me. I only met the kids fairly recently. The kids are no problem, but I was shocked by how much it changed my feelings for DP. We intended on getting to know each other first and checking we really loved each other before bringing the kids into it but now it seems like catch-22 - I fell in love with this man without his kids around, and actually seeing him in a parent role has really made me question everything.

From a selfish perspective I suppose I got used to our time together being just about us - but when it's with the kids too it is focussed on them, and it feels like a whole day or weekend can pass without DP or I having a proper adult conversation - we only talk about the kids, or to the kids, or through the kids.

I suppose I was perhaps a bit deluded - I knew their bedtime was 8pm but that they watched tv in their bedrooms until they fell asleep - but I didn't realise this meant DP running up and down the stairs every 10 minutes until they are asleep. So the little bit of time in the day I thought might be ours, in fact isn't - until around 9.30pm when they are usually both asleep, but DP and I are tired and I'm slightly fed up of the day.

I recognise it must be hard for everyone - DP and the kids are used to not having to share each other, and for DP the fact that he spends all evening going up and stairs is just a minor inconvenience, because if I'm not there he spends evenings on his own anyway.

I feel crap - DP is wonderful and I love the bones of him. Feel like I've led him up the garden path. I don't want to lose him but I worry that I have fallen in love with him in a particular situation only (i.e. when it is just the two of us, or with our adult friends) and that is only a very minor side to him - the majority of his time is with his kids and being a dad. So how is this relationship ever going to work :(

I understand

But i have no advice

Have you tried to develop a relationship with the DC and maybe run up the stairs yourself, to check on the DCs and help your DP?

Sorry that sounded a bit judgey but I just think that you need to embrace the SDC and develop your own relationship with them. How do you feel about kids in general?

How old are his children? He won't always be needing to be running up and down stairs as the children get older.

Are you able to keep 2 separate houses as before? If so I would do that for now and gradually get to know his children slowly.

I like sameboats advice- try developing a relationship with them on their own. Have you moved in?
Whatever happens don't beat yourself up. No ones behaved badly and you couldn't predict how you'd feel.

Didn't read it as judgey.

I suppose it is early days - they are happy to play with me and we do things all together when I am there, but they only want DP for certain things, understandably. I have gone upstairs, and have to if DP has popped out to get a take away or to the shop etc. but they just want him - they aren't generally calling for practical things, they just want him to come up and see them. They have baby intercoms / walkie talkies which is how they call for him, and even if he just talks to them on the intercom he still ends up going upstairs because that's all they really want.

I don't think I have any problem with kids in general, and I don't really have a problem with these kids. I have worked as a nursery nurse and still deal with kids most days in my current job. I enjoy spending time with friend's babies and children. I do get a bit broody when I am around babies, and would like a child/ren of my own some day, but it's only babies that make me feel that way. (Which I suppose is natural - no one gives birth to a fully grown child....)

They are 7 and 9.

I have no plans to suddenly move in or anything like that - definitely not! I suppose what has scared me is that I never perceived how different the relationship between me and DP would be with the kids around. I sound like an idiot now that I think about it - talk about naive! Part of it is getting to know the kids, but that almost seems easier than getting to know DP the parent, and to love DP the parent.

I think I remember your other posts - the Catch 22 is such a difficult thing, developing your relationship WITHOUT having met the children because it would be bad for them to meet you too soon, but then by the time you do meet the children and the challenging reality of that side of your DP's life hits you, you are already deeply in love and can't just walk away...

Do I remember rightly that you live quite far away from DP and his kids? So it is hard to do things gradually, you're either there for a whole full-on weekend or week, or you're not there at all?

I've not posted before - not been in the realm of step-parenthood until the past few months, and blindly never considered how it would feel until it happened.

I live around 45 minutes away, so it is do-able to go there just for a day / evening. The most I have spent with them in one go has been a full weekend, which was the most challenging. I know it will have to be a gradual thing, I am just finding it really hard to enjoy the time I spend with DP when that time is spent looking after the kids. I daresay if I had kids of my own it would be easier because I would be used to spending my time in this way. It is just the transition from mini breaks, nights out, visiting our friends... I feel like I need to develop the mindset of a parent before I am one. Wish I'd thought to come on this board and think about how it might be before I got so involved.

Sorry I sound like a right moaning minny. I am listening to what you are all saying and hope I will adjust to this new type of relationship, gradually.

Sorry OP, I think I was confusing you with another poster before.

So it's only been a few months since you met the children? On the one hand, it took me two years to find peace and acceptance with the reality of being with a man with children. On the other hand, DP is not the full time residential parent, and I'm not sure my story would have finished in the same way if that was the case.

You talk about the kids being no problem, but that you struggle with 'DP the parent' - do you mean you don't like the way he parents or the choices he makes? Or do you just mean you struggle with the limitations being a parent places on him, like having less time for you, always thinking about the kids etc?

Whichever, there are no easy answers...I'd say give it time but then the full time aspect does put so much more pressure on.

I can totally identify with this. We went from me being at work when OH had dsd on a Saturday to the odd evening to all weekend every weekend and me picking up a lot of the Childcare which continued for a few years.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss it being us for at least one night in a blue moon and that it was really tough sometimes. It's very hard to know what it will be like till it happens so don't beat yourself up.

We have changed to EOW now as dsd has got older and it's a lot easier on everyone. Dsd finds she can see friends etc and we get a break.

I would say make time for yourselves still this was our mistake you need to put time into your own relationship. As goes the relationships with the kids it comes in time we now have the opposite as we have hit the teens dsd is all about me rather than dad but he's not great with teen age girls and it's not happened over night.

Maybe as others have suggested try doing some stuff on your own with them but if it's not for you that doesn't make you a bad person- I wouldn't do it again!

Yes, met them at the end of March or thereabouts.

No problems with DP's parenting. He is soft sometimes (but they are his little girls, I understand it!) - but it's not something that would cause an issue, and I feel generally unqualified to say anything because I may behave completely differently to how I think I will when/if I have children.

So it's more the transition from our time together being just that, to our time together being child-oriented. We have had 2 weekends on our own since the end of March - the rest of the time has been with the kids, because DP's parents (who we rely on for childcare) have not been well enough to have them. In fact, that's how I ended up meeting the kids in the first place.

As I say they are very used to them being just the 3 of them. DP will always say yes to playing with them, unless he is making dinner (in which case I would go). So the time we are together is entirely at the whim of the kids. I thought there would be times when he would encourage them to amuse themselves, but he says he generally gets jobs done when they are at school or in bed, so evenings and weekends he does play with them, sit and watch kid's TV with them etc. I understand that this is how he wants things to be, and I wouldn't want him to change just because I am around - it isn't fair. But I did expect it to be a bit different. Perhaps this is exactly how I would be with my own kids - it's so hard not to second-guess everything I think, because at the end of the day I'm not a parent, I don't know what I would do.

Part of it is - it feels really lonely, emotionally, to not feel the same about his kids as DP does. He completely adores them, and so doing everything for them and spending all his free time entertaining them comes naturally - it is a pleasure for him, but for me it's an endurance until bed time. Hopefully over time I will feel more loving of them.

There must be a happy medium, but not sure how to find it. With childcare out of the question at the moment, and me working while the kids are at school, the only time I will get with DP for a while is with the kids around. I don't want it to turn it into a 'me or them' situation - I don't want to ask DP to encourage the kids to amuse themselves sometimes, because surely if that is what he wanted he would be doing it already. He doesn't know anyone else who can babysit - his brother lives far from him and they aren't close. So really it leaves us with bedtime as our only time alone.

I don't think there's any harm in encouraging them to play on their own or to go to bed and not be coming up and down every five minutes- you don't have to sacrifice any potential adult time..

The feeling like it's a constant sacrifice is when the resentment starts. When dsd is here she doesn't got to bed till we do so as they get older evening time become non existent! She also doesn't entertain herself she want to be doing something with me or her dad the whole time so I feel your pain!

It's quite possible that your OH hasn't a clue how you feel obviously it's difficult to broach but if your are having them all weekend every weekend I can't see why one night they couldn't go up to bed without the calling him up and down bit..? At 7 and 9 I'm sure at home they go to bed. Why not agree a time say 8pm when after that they are upstairs and that's it? At least then you get a couple of hours? Or maybe pick a night where u have a nice meal/ takeaway at 7.30 and they don't come down after that?

You have to find a workable solution for you. Being a step mum is a lot of sacrifice but you are also in a relationship and your OH needs to see you as well as being a part of his existing family. It can be a really hard subject to broach but maybe he just doesn't get it..?

Is there a drama group of something the girls would like to join for a couple of hours on one day or an activity club to break things up a bit? Dsd loves drama group and it gives us a couple of hours on a Saturday afternoon too..?

I don't think there's harm in it either - it would need to be a gradual process. Once we were having a nice meal that I cooked, bottle of wine, at about 8.30pm - youngest called DP up, so he said on the intercom that he would be up in around 10 minutes when he had finished his dinner. About 30 seconds later she started bawling, and it took him about half an hour to calm her down. So I think he perceives it as easier and 'damage limitation' to just go up when they ask. I will gently broach the subject though. It is what happens whether I am there or not, apparently, so it is not a reaction to me being around.

I would love to get them involved in a club - the eldest is always prancing around the living room and dancing to music, so I said to her would she like to have some dance lessons. She said no, but it is a good idea and something to keep bringing up, she might just be nervous about the idea, or perhaps I've not hit on the right idea yet.

We had a look online at different classes and let her pick. Street dancing is very fashionable she would have liked that but the times don't fit..? With the drama group there's the costumes to make and the performance to go too and it's from 6-16 so maybe they could both go? It's run at our local theatre maybe have a try online? I'm into horses and have one me and dsd used to go and have a lesson on my horse last summer is there something you three could do?

I don't think it does them any favours to be run up and down too on demand although I understand it's a gradual thing. What about they can stay up later and watch a DVD upstairs if they don't call down?

If sometimes I want to do a nice meal etc I have rented a film for her to watch upstairs or got some sweets or something. She loves loom bands maybe get them an activity to do upstairs? There's nothing wrong with a small bribe to get things going..!

Definitely try and set yourselves some time we didn't for years and I think life would have been much easier if we had! If they lived with you full time they would have bed times etc so it's hardly being rotten!

That's a good idea, will see what there is for when school starts again. They do sometimes go round to a friends house but they don't have the same friends so normally one would be left at home.

The bedtime thing apparently started because DP found it hard to convince them to go to bed and to stay in bed (not run around upstairs the minute he left them) - so he put TVs in their room. So now they go up at 8pm on the condition that they can watch TV for as long as they like (until they fall asleep with it on, usually). So there is a strict bedtime when they have to go upstairs, but they can have the TV on for as long as they want. It would all be fine were it not for the running up and down.

Certainly opened my eyes to parenthood!

I think this is a real problem and the reason I think it's important to meet the kids fairly early on (with the whole "this is daddy's friend" approach)

They are such a huge part of who he is. I'm a totally different person when I'm with my dd. My DH likes me a lot less!! It was important he knew what he was letting himself in for.

Now it's happened I'm not sure what to suggest. The only thing you can really do is become very involved yourself so you feel part of it. Without mum on the scene you are in the (enviable IMO!) position of being able to have a voice in this family.

Do you think he'd allow that?

So eg as others have said, share the trips upstairs? If you've done two each, you'll be in a better position to point out that's really quite enough and that they're to go to sleep now.

But it'll only work with his input

Ha ha I must be bonkers our baby is due in the next few weeks so will be stroppy teenager and newborn!

Ul work it out you've probably got much more practical child experience than I have. The key is just make sure that you set boundaries at the beginning my mistake was being in such a mind set to go with the flow of what suited everyone else it began to drive me bonkers!!

Also don't feel bad if you need a break from it it's a fairly thankless job most of the time...

This is exactly why I advise people not to wait too long before they meet the children. Yes, you don't want them meeting a new boyfriend/girlfriend every other week, but developing an adult relationship away from the children and only getting 'the good bits' isn't reality - then the transition into reality is hard. Also, it's 2 years that the children haven't had to 'share' their parent then suddenly they do - that doesn't seem overly fair on them either, when it was avoidable.

Secondly, his parenting style wouldn't suit a lot of people - me for one. Bedtime is bedtime, I don't do going back up and down all evening nor watching TV until they fall asleep - nor constantly playing with them. It's not good for them to a) not learn to amuse themselves b) settle themselves at bedtime c) feel 'in control' of their Dad.

I don't know why he has them full time and they don't see their Mum - but, to me, he seems to be being blackmailed by that situation and he's being a weak parent. They are 7 & 9 and play him like a fiddle. Irrespective of what happens with you, he needs to get a back bone and start parenting, not pandering.

I really feel for you and I know, in this situation, I'd have to walk away because there would be too much of it that he is happy with, that I would not be.

At the ages they are they should be going to bed and that is it. They shouldn't need an intercom!! He really needs to stop this IMO

But part of the problem is that it's very difficult for OP to come in and start suggesting to DP that he needs to change the way he parents his children. If he is happy with it, and they are happy with it...she risks casting herself in there eyes as 'wicked stepmother' who is trying to take daddy away from them.

I do think that from what you've said OP some changes could stand to be made, but it has to be done so carefully and gently. Maybe you could speak to DP about the lack of uninterrupted time in the evenings not being what you had imagined, and how difficult you find it to cope with. You could say that you think you need some time for you and him without the kids, whether this is in the evenings or during the day when they could be expected to play on their own.

He obviously loves his children a lot and is happy devoting a lot of time and attention to them. But if he loves you and wants to be in a relationship with you, he has to take into account your needs as well. If he absolutely doesn't want to change anything about house rules or expectations, then that is his choice and his right. But maybe he would be amenable to trying to change things a bit to give you some of what you need? Maybe he'd rather do this than lose you. Maybe he'd see that it wouldn't harm his children for him to ease out of being at their beck and call quite so much. They are getting older, after all.

But of course it's only worth bringing this up with him if you think that there's a real chance it would make enough of a difference for you to want to stay...

So difficult.

In hindsight having just an adult relationship has resulted in this sudden wake up call. I don't think DP is struggling - he has always had these 2 sides to his life, and for him he is really happy when we are all together and everyone is having a nice time. Of course I am not really having that great a time but that is not something I have shared with him, and I hope it will improve once the shock factor has worn off.

I think we were both having too much fun. At first we weren't all that serious, DP didn't think he wanted a serious relationship and I had just come out of one and was happy to be casual. When things got more serious we thought we had better wait and see to be sure, before meeting the kids. Maybe that was both of us secretly saying - actually we like our time together how it is. But it can't carry on that way forever.

The bedtime thing... His parents feel up to having the kids next week for 2 nights, so we are going away - it should be a good opportunity to talk and discuss things. If he sees no problem with it then there isn't much I can do.

Cross-post with riverboat.

That is what I am afraid of - stepping on his toes and on what works for him. If the kids associate my presence with DP encouraging them to play on their own or not going upstairs everytime they ask, that is going to damage things. So it would have to be a solution that he would commit to even when I am not there.

If he genuinely is happy how things are, then I honestly feel like there isn't room for me in his life. I already feel guilty about leaving the kids with DP's parents next week as they haven't been well.

I think you are spot on with what you have said and are being quite fair and reasonable - and realistic. I am sure you will work it out for the best for all you and whatever happens, I'm sure you will be fine. I'm sorry it has happened like this though, as it's not your fault (or his) and you sound really nice and like you'd make a nice couple if he was the 'single bloke' you have essentially been seeing for the past 2 years. Take care of yourself and think hard about what you want - you have to, because you are the only one that will and if you don't, in the end, no-one will be happy.

Regardless of whether you have kids or not, if you're going to have a future as a step mum to these kids you will need to have opinions on their parenting and to get involved on some level. I couldn't handle co parenting with a man who was so feeble and unboundaried with his kids, I think he has a real problem and this will be a huge issue in future. I've just waded through that thread above about the dad with poor boundaries who treats his dd like an adult and it kind of reads like your future.
Fwiw I don't think your DP has the parenting thing spot on if his dd's are running rings around him like that. I'm not surprised you have changed slightly in your feelings toward him.