Is this a recipe for unhappiness in the long-term?

[cyclamens]

Does anyone live with their DSC fulltime but still remain relatively detached from 'life with kids'?

Don't know how to explain really - new here so a bit of back story.

Been with DP for 3 years. His wife died over 4 years ago, leaving him to look after their 3 children (who are all at primary school). At first DP was sure that, if we were going to be together and live together, I have to be some sort of mother to the children. I found the pressure of this difficult, felt that I had to enjoy days with the kids, when really I didn't. I prioritized time with him and the kids over a lot of things in my life - things which I actually enjoyed doing and missed a lot (hobbies, seeing friends). The kids and I got on fine, but they are all very settled in their life with just their dad at home. They didn't latch on to me as a mother figure - it was DP really who wanted that. And DP has always done everything for them - I have never been involved in school runs, packed lunches, cooking dinners, bathtime etc.

DP has had counselling for the past 6 months or so, and now says he was hung up on trying to recreate the traditional family unit - and that actually it is ok for us to be different. He says I can have whatever relationship I want with the kids and be as involved as I like - so if it as a weekend, it is down to him to take the kids out / entertain them, and I can come if I want but equally I can stay home on my own, meet my own friends, do my own thing.

We don't live together at the moment, so this is working for now. DP has a lot of childcare at his disposal, so we get frequent evenings / nights to ourselves. When I stay at his house for longer periods, he will tend to take the kids out while I stay home or do something else. It can get a bit lonely, because I don't know anyone near to where he lives, but for me actually it's better than going out with DP and the kids. DP seems happy enough with this arrangement, and I still play games or do homework with the kids in the evenings on occasion - this is the exception rather than the rule. DP is always quite on the ball, and when he feels like the kids are bombarding me a bit he will step in and distract them, so I feel a lot less overwhelmed than I used to.

But - DP (and I too) want to move our relationship forward, and I know he wants us to think about living together. But I don't know if it's possible to live with them whilst still maintaining my independence from 'family life'. DP says the kids will be fine with it, and that they will get used to the fact that I go to work fulltime and do other things while he looks after them. I suppose I worry a bit that I will be lonely if I do exclude myself from days out, holidays etc. but my free time away from work is so limited that I suppose I tend to prioritise how I spend it i.e. me and DP alone / seeing friends / me on my own catching up with bits and bobs - all tends to come before a weekend as a 5.

Oh I think I sound like an awful person!

I'm not a step parent so probably not qualified to comment but it strikes me that you've gone from one extreme to the other. The pressure to be a 'mother' and give up your own hobbies etc seems an unfair balance but now it sounds as if you take absolutely no role in the lives of your partner's kids at all. Now that would be fine I think if you weren't planning to live together but I just don't see how it would work if you're all sharing the same home? Is there not a middle ground to be found at all?

Also, is it simply the case that you know you don't want to be a mum or is it the case that you don't want to spend time with these kids specifically?

I don't think you're an awful person by the way - I think it's good that you're being honest about your feelings.

I think I may be a bit shellshocked from the time when I was very involved and you are right that it has gone to the other extreme. I would like to think that there is a middle ground - I'm not saying I would never go out with them as a 5, and I would spend time at home with them. It is DP who broached the subject of us living together and I was quite sceptical about how he thought it would work. He just said more of the same i.e. no expectations on how much time we all spend together, he recognises that my career will come first for a while, and so on. I think he is very lonely and would love to have me around in the evenings.

I would like kids myself one day but I suppose I am not ready yet. They are lovely kids. I think perhaps I am clinging on to my 'young and single' life (obviously I'm not single, but may as well be sometimes, as our lives are so separate) because the alternative is 'family life' which is unnerving. I probably need to ease myself back into doing some things with them all, but I'm terrified that even that will be too much, which will surely be the end of me and DP.

I don't think this situation would work with you living together. Its hard to be a step parent to one child let alone three, even more so when they've lost their other parent.

If you want to live together an move your relationship forward the. I think you'll have to become more involved in their lives. I'm not Sauk g you need to completely take on a mother role but your partner won't be able to take his kids out all the time like he does now.

Its hard adjusting to having your own child but when its someone else's child who you 'learn' to love its very difficult. I found it hard when I first started seeing my DH and adjusting to DSD and we only have her at the weekend. I'm not her mother but when she's with us I do for her what I do for our DCs (cooking, cleaning etc).

I think it would be unfair on all of you to live together while you have this kind of arrangement. Going back to how you started off with you dropping hobbies/time with friends is too much though. You need a middle ground where you still get time to do things you want/like to do but also take more of a role with your partners children.

Carrying on with this set up will only lead to your partner being resentful and you feeling lonely. Plus what will happen if you went on to have children together? Would you only do things with/for your child or with all the children?

I don't know if this sounds like making excuses - but I think I would find helping out with practical things (e.g. doing the odd school run, cooking for the kids, homework) much easier than going out with them all. I find it really stressful going out as a 5. But because DP has been a lone parent for so long, because it is his house and his routines, and because I know nothing about being a parent - I have only ever participated in the bits that are supposed to be 'fun' like going on day trips. I made a fish pie from scratch once while the 4 of them were out, because the eldest boy said DP never makes it but he really likes it, but DP said the kids wouldn't eat it, he had planned something else for tea, and we ended up eating it on our own later in the evening - kids didn't get offered because it wasn't worth the hassle apparently.

An idea which I have yet to put to DP is that I spend more time with each of the kids one-on-one - because if I struggle with all 3 of them and consequently don't spend any time with them at all, I can't see us having a happy home life as you say. I think I do recognise that this won't work in the long term.

As for if DP and I had a child - it would be a long way off! I don't know how it would work.

I think I fell completely in love with DP and assumed everything would work out fine. But there is so much complexity and compromise. I don't want to hurt him or the kids, or spend years of my life trying to fit into this life that actually isn't right for me.

I don't hang out here but this thread is on active so here goes:

There seems to be a lot about what's best for you and best for DP (and I'm honestly not taking a pop, it is of course fine to have an OP about your own feelings But my question is, what's best for the DCs, do you think? Do you think you moving in with them and being some sort of elder flatmate (for want of a better word) is a workable situation for them? How do they feel about you? (I'm guessing confused if it has all been totally full on and is now totally full off).

I think DP saying re the fish pie, 'Oh the kids won't eat it and I've planned something else' would be a red -or at any rate - pink flag for me.

Perhaps it's no different than stay at home mothers getting very set on routines. 'X likes this. Y likes that. Their father just doesn't understand.'

But fish pie is quite a lot of work. It would have been good if he'd put in on the table, and if any of the kids wasn't keen, they could have eaten the topping and/or bread and butter - or had some cheese.

Haven't got any advice really. If you want to continue the relationship I'd take things slow, and try doing a bit more with the children from time to time. But you need your partner to support you as you do so.

I find it hard to know what is best for the DSC - I rely on DP to suss that out, which is why we went quite full-on for a while, and now have cut back post-counselling. By full on I mean trying to do things as a 5 when I was free - as I say, the day-to-day stuff has always been DP.

I worry that me moving in but not being overly involved would not be great for them - I think it would confuse them, when they see other families doing things all together. DP says I'm worrying over nothing on that one, and that things will happen naturally - if we all want to spend more time as a 5 then we will, if the kids are happier just spending time with their dad then we won't. I don't have children of my own so perhaps my instinct isn't right, but I am not convinced that what DP thinks is right either.

I was bemused by the fish pie - I don't know if there was something else behind it but he never gave any suggestion that there was. I don't know if he was trying to protect my feelings if in fact they didn't like it or refused to try it? Who knows.

But what if things don't happen naturally? You know, you want to do x on a Saturday, but the kids want to do y - so who does DP go with? Obviously it has to be the kids, which is setting you up for a lot of loneliness and feeling second-best, I fear. And I think that the DCs deserve that the people living in their house love them, care for them and are happy to be involved with them - more than doing the odd school run.

TBH I think these kids are probably extremely confused. They've lost their mother, their father then tried too hard to replicate that family set up, with a person who is now keeping them at arms' length. You sound confused too - everyone is confused!

It's not the right time to move this relationship on. I actually wonder if some joint counselling would help you both work out what's really going on here? But you all need to act in the best interests of the kids, not in the best interests of yourselves here. Good luck.

I'm a step mum and have had a really hard time trying to find a happy medium but the truth is, I don't think there is one.
I don't think it's healthy for the children (who lets face it have been through enough),for you or your DP to have you dipping in and out when it suits you.
I'm not having a og because it takes time to adjust but you cannot just fall in love with a man in his circumstances, you have to fall in love with the children too.
From my experience, you need to throw yourself in head first, give it a try, just for a month. Get stuck in, help out with lunches, school runs, outings, cuddles etc....if anything it will help you to understand how much your DP does and how much he loves his kids....it will increase the level of respect you have for each other as "parents" rather than partners because let's face it, ultimately that's what you would be if your relationship continues. You never know, you might really enjoy it.
Get to know them all because they come as a package.
Who cares if the kids are picky with their food, the more you are with them the more you can influence them gradually to try new things or the more they are likely to feel secure. Sometimes that stuff is for attention seeking purposes.
My step children were a nightmare when I first met my partner but now they are flipping brilliant and understand my rules.
Good luck and give it a try

Also, I don't agree that your partner will automatically do what then kids want, if you live together then you will have more say.

I think there are a lot of 'resident stepdads' who fulfil exactly the role you describe - there's far less expectation on them to be "dad" than on stepmums to be "mum" in my experience!

I don't seed why it wouldn't work - you might find as things progress that you begin to naturally integrate into the family; maybe one of the DSC will share an interest or hobby with you?

I certainly don't think this is a barrier to moving in; as long as you and your DP are able to communicate openly and constructively about it.

Perhaps I should take time off work when they are at school - I have never been around for anything more than the odd evening while they are at school, all our time has been focussed at weekends and the time I have had off has been during their school holidays. I would like to see what normality is like - of course normality means weekends too, but previously weekends meant we all had to have fun together all the time, which is exhausting and not all that realistic. It might be nice to see them off to school and then do more low-key things in the evening.

I don't mind pickiness at all, I personally think they would have eaten my pie

I think you partner is not being very realistic about his children. What if they do latch into you as a mother figure if you move in, it would be very damaging for them to be rejected if that's not what you want.

I think he is trying to see things through rise tinted glasses, you sound much more realistic regarding the potential problems. Trust yourself and your instincts as you sound spot on with your reservations.

I would really take your time with this as you don't want to end up having the children bond with you, then realise you don't want it. You could end up feeling you are trapped because of the children's past.

Fish Pie Syndrome.

My OH is resident full-time father of three, but they are teenagers.

I like the one-on-one stuff best. After a year we have actual conversations and everything.

And yes, it is all very confusing.

Probably time DP and I had an honest conversation... The focus has very much been on him / his depression for a while such that I didn't want to initiate any serious conversations in case I made him worse. But as many of you share my concerns I think it's time.

Confusing sums it all up well. I have a tendency to overthink how I interact with the kids anyway because of their loss.

Fish pie syndrome! I wonder if it is a metaphor for our situation? Who is the fish? What is the significance of the cheese? Can the answers to all our problems be found between the flakes of lovingly poached haddock?

I think the fish pie is the gift that their father isn't ready to let you give them yet.

(Don't worry, I'm not completely mad, for us it was Victoria Sponge.)

IMO, yes it is. Especially when you already feel detached from their life. When you live with them, that detachment is compounded and the loneliness is much more profound. You then become an observer of their lives that you don't feel part of. At least when you live separately, you are not constantly reminded of this. It would also be a huge concern for me that it is 'his house', which means it is 'their house' which ultimately will mean it isn't 'your house'. Think very carefully about whether this relationship can make you happy, because TBH, it already sounds like it doesn't.

Maybe I am living vicariously through you and hoping you make the right choice because I didn't It sounds like he's probably older than you? Go live your life because fitting around others peoples lives is soul destroying.

[feeling like fish pie now]

I've been with my dp for 2 years and have kept a bit of distance from his DCs (the younger one especially) as they are so close to him and reliant on him that the younger one especially hasn't really bonded with me.

I have DCs of my own and we do stuff all together, but I do find it very stressful sometimes and I know I couldn't manage living together full time (they are with him 50/50, my DCs with me 6 days a week), so we are resigned to living separately for at least another 10 years when the youngest is grown up.

It works well for us and gives us the best of both worlds, he spends his free 50% of the week with me and we get together once a week with all the DCs. If were lucky we get a night on our own too.

Fwiw, I have spent a little time on my own with both of his DCs recently and even just in the course of a couple of days I felt like there was a 'thaw' as his little one couldn't run to him and needed to interact with me. I saw a different side to her and perhaps the same goes for her and me? You might find that a bit of time on your own with them would help you to find some common ground. It doesn't mean you have to become their 'mum' but you might at least enjoy doing stuff together occasionally.

I also find that I am more willing to spend time with them all (without my DCs) when it isn't expected. I almost have to decline the invitation first to get my head around it, then decide later that I will go over to his, so that it is my choice iykwim.

Admittedly I don't have lots of hobbies like you to be getting on with, so the alternative is usually sitting at home alone and making the decision to join them is relatively easy, but it just feels better knowing that it isn't a foregone conclusion, that I have options. I guess that would be harder if we lived together.

Not wishing to hijack, just trying to empathise and think about it 'out loud' and I'd say that you should make it work for you whatever that means, it doesn't have to be a traditional 'nuclear' family if that doesn't suit you. Families are all different and if yours means that you keep a bit of space to yourself and occupy a more 'step-dad' type of role (nice person who lives with the parent, not someone who takes on lots of responsibility for the DCs) just go with it.

I am in two minds about what I want and am trying to achieve. Sometimes I like the fact that I am detached - the kids have many wonderful adults in their lives, I don't feel they are desperately crying out for another, and DP enjoys having a break from the kids every few weekends. Lately our relationship has been a bit of a fantasy land - in that we are both removed from the realities of the other's life - DP is removed from my work and the stresses of that, and I am removed from the childcare.

But as you say - if we were to live together, I think I would have no choice but to try to be involved, for everyone's sake. I worry that there isn't space in their life for me, and worry that I can't dedicate enough time to building up the relationships with the kids and with all of us as a family at the moment. It seems easier to detach than to face failure in that respect.

We would want to move to a new house - fresh start and all that - I made it clear a long time ago that I wouldn't move in to their house and DP has said he wants a fresh start too. We would be within the same area though to keep the kids with their friends and keep the support network.

That's interesting Penelope, thanks for sharing your situation and sounds like it works well for everyone. From the little bit of time I have spent alone with the kids, particularly the youngest who sometimes asks to stay with me when DP goes out to pick the eldest two up or similar, I agree with what you are saying - they are very different and it does help to bond. Also when there is just 1 of them around and not 3, so they are not battling each other for DP's attention.