Relationship with a widower

[lightningbolts]

I've been in a relationship with a widower for a little over 2 years - he has 3 kids between 4 and 9. So far our time together has mostly been 'just the two of us' - he has a good support network and gets childcare every other weekend for a break, which he usually spends with me. I have spent some time with him and the kids, they know I am his girlfriend, but it's the exception rather than the rule i.e. when childcare isn't available and we haven't seen each other for ages.

I am wondering what the future might look like, and whether any of you are in a relationship / living with a widower and his children? I feel like him, the kids, his family, society - everyone will automatically put me in the 'mother' role and have expectations of how I should be. I know he is never going back to work so it won't be me who is the stay-at-home parent, at least. The thought of living together is scary - he has said he wants to have a talk about the future soon, so that is why I am trying to hear other people's experiences. At the moment I can only see us working if we continue to live apart (but maybe move nearer to each other) or even if we had a house with a 'granny annexe' so that I can have space and we are slightly different from the conventional family set up.

But is it cruel to want to separate myself a bit? I am scared of these kids perceiving that I should be their new mother - but as that is not really the role I want, I fear they will feel rejected or let down by this new life. Is it inevitable that I have to be that mother figure and be around full time i.e. living together, all together as a family in the evenings and at weekends? I know my partner wants a happy family and I worry that his idea of that is to replicate exactly what he had before.

Sorry - confused post from a confused brain.

Hi there. I am married to a widower and have two DSC. We don't have that kind of support network you mention, so it has been pretty full-on since meeting them. My DSC were older than your partner's kids, though, so in some ways that meant that I was never going to play quite as much of a 'mothering' role with them. The younger one, though, was 10 when we met and really wanted/needed that 'mothering' at times, which was fine by me and we ended up quite close quite quickly...I guess you will gave a sense of what the children want and need from you. If they seem to want more than you can give, that's a worry of course. On the other hand, you mention the support network, so possibly the children do already have some other 'nurturers' in their daily lives? Does your DP talk at all about what he expects from you in that regard? I do think it would be unwise to move in together without making sure that you and your DP have the same goals with regards to your relationship to the children.

One thing that you may already be realising is that people will have a lot of expectations of you. These come in two forms - the first, that you will act as a mother to the children, at least in practical ways. The second is, unfortunately, that there will be some people who automatically question your motives and your actions, no matter what you do. I very quickly learned that people really want to see the new partner of a widower in one of two roles - saint, or witch. You will probably get some of both. You can't let it get to you too much, or you will tie yourself in knots.

As for your role, you know what, that's for you and your partner to decide and define. I continued to live separately from my now-DH and DSCs, even after I had a child with now-DH (planned pregnancy, planned living arrangements). We did move in all together eventually, but living separately was the right thing to do for us, and neither of us has any regrets about choosing to take a less conventional path with it.

I know my partner wants a happy family and I worry that his idea of that is to replicate exactly what he had before.
This is what I would be concerned about. He needs to understand where you are coming from, and you need to sort of be on the same page about your role - whatever that is - and he really needs to know that you are not simply stepping into a vacancy.

Thank you both.

brdgrl -
I do like the sound of the way that you did things. What is your relationship like with your DSC now that you all live together? Also interested to know what you mean when you say 'mothering' regarding the 10-year old. I think part of my worries are that I don't know where I can fit in. I would like a child/children of my own one day, and would like to do all that the traditional mother role entails and be the one who was primarily responsible for their care, the one who comforts them when they are sad or looks after them when they are sick. This was the role that DP's wife had, and which he has now taken on. I worry that both DP and the children want a 'mother' but don't realise that the 'mother' is now DP. It seems ridiculous - but it honestly feels like there is pressure from the 4 of them for me to fill this gap, but there isn't actually a gap to fill, because DP has filled it?

needaholidaynow -
Thank you. I would feel much more comfortable if they did have their mum still - even if they lived with their dad and had minimal contact with her. Because at least she is around! I worry that living together means that I can't take on that friendship role quite as easily. I would be happy to be an older female figure (the eldest and youngest of the kids are girls) with none of the responsibilities but I don't know if I can remain that if we live together. I have visions of everyone thinking - lightningbolts lives with them / is their stepmother, why hasn't she taken them shopping, why hasn't she taken time off work for their party / play / school event, why isn't she going on a family holiday with them? Not saying I wouldn't do any of those things but I feel like I would have to, or I risk upsetting everybody.

In our relationship so far we have never really talked about it. But this past weekend rang some alarm bells (it was a weekend with the kids). DP's son said DP had started a conversation with him about what he thinks of me. I didn't delve into this further - just said something like 'it's because he loves you and wants to know that you are happy with me being around' or similar - but I'm wondering why he initiated that conversation at this point. DP has also been quite down lately about his life, and wondering what his future might look like. He said to me that there is a lot of risk attached to moving forward in our relationship because 'the children have already lost one mother, I don't want them to lose another mother if we don't work, and I'm sure if we split up you wouldn't hang around to be a mother to them'. First time he has ever mentioned the m-word in relation to me and it stunned me a bit. I can't imagine being referred to as their mother (by DP or the kids themselves) and didn't imagine hearing that word until I had decided to have children of my own. I tried to respond by saying that I think we can all be happy without me being their mother, but DP then said that wasn't what he was trying to discuss and moved on to something else.

It all seems ridiculous that this one word carries so many connotations and expectations but it does. I am also aware that these kids are extremely hurt from the death of their mother (massive understatement). They wake up crying in the night, or cry when they get to bed so that DP has to spend an hour or 2 with them trying to settle them. On a couple of occasions this weekend, the youngest started crying and said she missed her mummy. One occasion was definitely not related to me - I was in the room but wasn't involved in what was going on - but the second occasion felt like it might have been because I was there. Which makes me feel awful. I can go into more details but perhaps it's not relevant.

I feel like I need to manage expectations, which I can do with DP if we discuss the situation and agree what we both want, but how do you manage the expectations of 3 kids?

This was the role that DP's wife had, and which he has now taken on. I worry that both DP and the children want a 'mother' but don't realise that the 'mother' is now DP. It seems ridiculous - but it honestly feels like there is pressure from the 4 of them for me to fill this gap, but there isn't actually a gap to fill, because DP has filled it?
My DH was a great single dad to his children, but there is no question that he missed a few things that were going on with the kids. And there are ways in which he wasn’t totally perceptive to their feelings at times (I don’t think anyone could be, all the time, so I mean no criticism of his in saying that). When their mum was alive, she played a certain role in the family structure, and there was no way DH could fill that in - and plus, she was their mum and they will miss her forever! Your DP won’t have been able, I suspect, to ‘fill that gap’, because the way he parented his kids and the way the mum parented the kids will have been complementary rather than identical, IYSWIM.

That doesn’t mean, of course, that YOU can or should fill that gap. That’s probably not a realistic goal for any of you to have. It sounds to me like you need more time to figure out what role you want to have - are you worried he is about to push for more - moving in together/marriage?

My relationship with my DSC is one that has changed over time and definitely goes up and down. They are teenagers now for a start and I have to remind myself that we'd have loads of the same issues no matter what our family origin. The kids have never wanted me to be a mother (although they definitely want me to do mothery things, whether that be in terms of providing for them or remembering their important occasions, keeping track of their friends and their ups and downs…some stuff they aren’t conscious of wanting, I suppose, but they do) – they are very clear that their mum is their mum, even now, and so it has been easier for me than for you, perhaps, in that I haven’t felt that they wanted me to step into her shoes – more the opposite, worried that I’d try to step into her shoes, so I initially had to try and reassure them that it wasn’t my intention to do so – but that I still was going to be family to them. I think you are in a much tougher place, at least for now, because the kids are so young.

DSD was very resistant to me being a part of their lives, while DSS was more well-disposed towards it, I think because he needed a female presence and a bit of attention. After losing their mum, he was much more set adrift than DSD…there is more to it but without getting into all the details, I’ll just say that he was glad to have someone on his team again. As far as what I mean by mothering – if he fell and got hurt, I’d cuddle him and bandage it up. He used to crawl into bed with me and watch telly and talk about his day. When we all went places together, he’d stick close to me. We don’t have that kind of relationship anymore, mainly I think because he is now 16 and has pulled away quite a bit, to where we’re having some behavioural issues with him, and I have been the ‘bad cop’ when it comes to enforcing house rules, etc. - actually, that is one thing I would really caution you about, to be sure that you and your DP are in agreement about how you will negotiate differences in parenting style, especially since you say you want to have your own - even if you keep some separation, you can't ignore the fact that sometimes you ARE going to be thrust into that role and if you don't feel supported, it is very tough.

DSD and I have come a long way and have a pretty decent relationship now that she is older. As well, having my DD brought us all closer as a family unit and it did make me more a part of the family as far as the kids were concerned, so I think you are right to wonder about how that might change your dynamic too. I have more problems with my DH and his lack of involvement with the kids than with the kids themselves, if that makes sense. Sometimes over the years I have felt that he was so exhausted by his responsibility to them, that when I was around he just ‘switched off’ and left it to me to deal with because he needed a break – fine up to a point, but only to a point. When I find myself managing all the needs of three kids (DSC plus our DD), I get pretty exasperated. There was also a lot of compensatory behaviour by DH - similar to what I gather from these boards happens with divorced dads - he let them get away with murder for a long time, because he couldn't bear to see them unhappy even in a trivial way.

sorry that was so long, OP.

Love your posts brdgrl, you are so eloquent :-)

I just bang on too much!

Reading that back about 'filling a gap' I sound really harsh / dismissive - of course the loss of their mum is a gap that can't be filled. I suppose I can't imagine having a relationship with them where I did any of the 'mothering' type things that you describe, because DP does all of that. Even little things - if one of the kids asks me to do something, even something little like take the lid off their drink, DP will come over and take it off them and do it himself - I think he is trying to protect me.

So it leaves me at a loss as to what my role would be, other than being a caring adult figure. But I think if I am not in the mother role, I will find it hard to live full time with 3 children, because along with that mother role comes a say in how they should be brought up. There is a lot of compensatory behaviour by DP too - they are very well behaved kids so rarely need telling off, but on the rare occasion he does tell them off they start crying for their mummy, which of course tugs on DP's heart strings and makes him feel like the big bad wolf! Cue lots of apologising to them, present buying, etc.

I really value hearing your experiences, anyway, so don't apologise for it being long! And it sounds like you're all doing well.

I think DP has been spending a lot of time thinking about his future and what it might be like. So I suspect all of this talk (both to his son and to me, no doubt to his girls too) is probably because of that - trying to suss out what kind of life we might have if we were together.

I know we need to have an honest conversation about what we both want and the roles we want to play. I know he always wants to be the stay-at-home parent, or at least the parent who is responsible for all things child-related, so I need to work out what he means when he says the children will see me as their mother or that that is what he wants, because what I think of when I think of 'mother' is obviously not what he means.

I just wanted to see what other people thought before I say things that make DP think I am an awful person... I need to feel that the things I am saying are not unreasonable, before I say them to him.

You sound lovely and thoughtful and not at all unreasonable.
Definitely, the hardest thing about the stepmum gig is being expected to be "the mum" in so many ways, but then not permitted to be "the mum" in so many others. Especially if you do love the kids (which I do, not as 'my own' but as 'my family') - then it can be quite hurtful. Better to know what you are going into!

Do you not need to spend a bt more time with them before even contemplating The Future? I appreciate you don't wish to leap into the mother role, neither would I have done if I didn't know the children better. Is the option of moving closer and seeing one another with the children there, a realistic one? As much as you need to put feelers out about how you feel being a bigger part of their lives, they need this too.

It is so difficult, and I wish you lots of luck, and hopefully some clarity (would this help ?)

Succinctly - a move in by stealth sort of tactic

always a help!
There will be no rash moves - I think it will be a chat about what we both want for the future, in the context of our relationship and outside of it. If our thoughts are similar I guess we would then move towards seeing each other with the kids, and fewer weekends on our own. We have never really discussed the future - it was never intended to be a longterm relationship but things change! But any moves, even to move nearer, would be another year or two down the line. I just wondered what roles and relationships others have experienced - if DP and I are poles apart in what we think my role should be then there may not be a future here. But I do see your point that time with the kids might alter my view - and I do recognise that the kids need a stealthy approach, stealth is my middle name plus I'm too much of a scaredy cat for any sudden moves myself!

All I'd add, is that if you want children one day add that into the mix for discussion now. Firstly to see if you DP is open to the idea and secondly because this will have major ramifications for your options in the relationship (fine to keep to the girlfriend role, or live seperately etc without them).

You do sound lovely and thoughtful, so I hope you give yourself the time to explore what you are comfortable with before committing. It will tell you a lot about your dp if he is happy to give you this time. It is quite possible that he has been thinking about this very much from his/his children's angle, not wanting them to be hurt etc but may never have considered that you may have reservations. I'd also make sure he agrees to a degree of flexibility when it comes to things like who is the SAH parent. Right now it is obviously the right thing for him to do, but in time hs children will need him less and, should you have children, you may want to have some time at home with them in the early years (or maybe not but better not to close off the option now).

Good luck

Hi lightning, I'm at work at the moment so no time to answer, but I'm in a fairly similar position to you. I'll get back to you a bit later! (Not that I have any answers - see my post "How should I be with DSD"?) x

BarbarianMum -
Thank you. You are right, those are important things for me to mention. Feel like I'm preparing for a business meeting! DP did shock me a little when he declared he didn't think he would ever go back to work, if finances allowed. Because I always imagined staying at home when my children were young if possible, and I can't imagine banging around the house with DP as well! I hope as his kids get older he might change his mind - he really misses his job and doesn't like his SAHD role, but doesn't want any formal childcare.

Stampingmyfeet -
Look forward to hearing from you soon! From reading the threads on this board I'm not sure that anyone has the answers... just a lot of well-meaning people trying to do their best