HOW do I get HELP??? Family counselling, anyone with experience?

[rosemadder]

Sorry, it's a bit long, but, feel the whole picture will give more chance of someone being able to help... so, here goes...

I have 3dks. My dh (dp of 3yrs now, but dh of only 3wks) has 2dds.

Mine live with us 12/14 and his live with us 7/14. All moved in together last Sept. Thought it'd be ok. Thought only adjustment prob may be his 13.5yr old dd. Not so. She's been fab. Says i'm like a bf/mum/sister rolled into one. Says i make her dad happy and thats cool. She was , big time, 3yr ago. "tried to hate" me but couldn't "cos she's too nice". "she" being me!

My dks, age 5, 6.5 & 8, have always had to share me with each other. Didn't struggle to adjust to new "blended" situation.

Problem is (..and it's getting to dominate all conversations between dh and me. Is exhausting, depressing, wearing, and has us going round in circles.): it is becoming increasingly obvious that other dsd, age 8, hasn't actually settled into "blended" situation. Has always blown hot and cold with me. One minute i'm wonderful and she's making cards stating loveliness; next minute is off telling attention seeking fibs to bm. But, i just thought "hey, that's kids for you, must be strange seeing dad with new woman, it'll work itself out" etc etc.

The good times have got fewer and fewer tho'. Her behaviour has deteriorated. She has said she hates sharing Daddy. "Not fair, her children live with him all the time". Compares our home regime (for want of a better word) unfavourabley with that of bm, where she still has tantrums of a toddler which are given way to, and is given far too much by way of material goods and not enough, imo, time or attention (doesn't get read aloud to, or given oppertunities to paint etc). "Not fair, haven't got tv in bedroom/chokky jar/x-box at Daddy's"... and the beat goes on. Now seems that being taught, lovingly, to knit/sew/bake means nothing to a child who wants to be, weekly, bought new dvds of lowestcommondenominator formulaic USA hi-skool stylee films.

I sound old fashioned, and you may think - hey she's a modern kid and if that's what she likes then... But I don't want the way we run our home, and therefore how i bring up my own 3dks, to be dictated by what dsd's bm has set up in her house, and has thus taught dsd to expect from life.

I am torn between wanting to:
a) protect my kids from, what is currently, dsds perniscious influence.
b) Return to the dsd of old (when we didn't live together, & she wasn't envious & therefore oppositional), when she was open to, and enjoyed, my methods. making soup and playing pictionary, rather than getting takeaway and watching Will and Grace.
c) Do whatever it takes to stop arguing with dh about what he calls my "segregation" of his dd.

You see about 3 months ago, I "found" deardiary entry relating feeling that i am: Person who hogs Dad, am mean, moan at her (i was collecting laundry from bedrm floor and item was left OPEN on desk. I took this as the act of a child who needs to communicate feelings but doesn't know how to.).Spoke to dh about it, he spoke to her, she was upset/embarrased. I spoke to bm about it and she say "yes, i know that's how she feels" then told me a load of other stuff dsd has been saying to her, TOTALLY untrue stuff, about how things are at our house. Bm appeared to have believed it all but didn't address it. Why, i don't know?? Prob thought it go away in time.

During the same time dsd has become more and more domineering in her play with my dks. Even, deliberately mean to my dd (age 6.5). And often creating fuss and difficltness during the highstress times of day such as getting ready for school, going to shops etc. Sounds normal. Yes, it is, but i can't discipline her. Dh says, "Of course you can, you're the grown up, you have to be in charge, you can discipline your kids why not mine?!".

It's bad enough already having her telling Mummy nonsense without me adding to it with real "meanness", which is what discipline is taken as, by her. Daddy can get away with it. They have history and blood to link them. I have neither. I'm afraid have now slipped into a situation whereby i try to avoid having to parent her at all. I now feel that in parenting her, i never get things right, i'll never match up to bm, etc. I treat her more like a little friend who is over for tea. If i can avoid taking her to the shops, or to swimming lessons, or dragging her along when someones got an appointment, then i will. At the weekends i escape to my parents, leaving dh with dsds in order to "let them have a bit of chillout time on their own.". In my heart i know that i want to avoid being home.

In the last 48 hrs we have talked about virtually nothing else. Dh thinks 50/50 care isn't working for her. He says she's unhappy, and is confused about how to live. Her bm knows he feels this way and says "well i think she's fine and anyway I can't have her 12/14, how am i meant to get a man then?". Seriously.

He wants her to live fulltime with us - envy would go away if she did. But i worry immensly . What if it's a nightmare and arguing goes on, and my dks suffer. She'll still see her bm on alternate weekends. I fear we'll have a situation whereby comparisons between houses are even more startling. She'll have 12/14 in our strict house of sack cloth and cabbage water, balanced with 2/14 of saturation re treats, makeup, electronic games etc. from a never-harassed woman who, by then lives 7/14 with easy teenage, and 2/14 with dsd who is desperate for a bit of so called luxury.

My 8yr old ds heard us arguing last night. This is very bad as he suffered a great deal of trauma (which floods back if he hears me argue or get upset, even with his Granny!) through hearing me falling out with is father whan he was 4/5 and we were separating.

WE NEED HELP! Does anyone out there know how to find family counselling for this sort of situation? Or have their own experience of it, and ideas about methods to improve the situation. I love my dh deeply deeply really and truely. And, am so unhappy that he is feeling more and more depressed about his dd being "pushed away". What to do?

I'm afraid that I can't help you at all from a grown-up perspective, but I very much was that little girl - at very much the same age too.

My parents divorced and I ended up living with my father and step-mother, along with my brother and step-brother. They - we're all quite close in age - settled in well, I didn't and was perpetually hostile and aggressive.

After several years of counselling as a grown up, I can now probably tell you why. From well before the divorce, I had a rocky relationship with my mother, who'd had very bad PND and a messy childhood herself. I'd compensated by having a very close relationship with my father. So, after the divorce, I hated having to share him with my step-mother. I felt as though I had lost both parents.

From reading your message, I'm guessing that something similar is going on for you sd, esp with what you say about the bm's attitude. She's probably feeling very abandoned, and expressing this as best she can (I could write a book about the odd and peculiar ways I used to express my resentment of the situation.) And it's quite possible that she's in a very situation to her sister, who may have a v different relationship with her father and mother.

But I don't think this is a situation that you can sort out on your own, or even that it can be reconciled by different parenting styles. Children are not stupid; they don't really care about money, or takeaways, tv programmes, only when these are the only signs of love available.

One of the problems I also had was not feeling able to express any of my feelings about the situation, and from what you say about the diary, this may be the case for her too. One thing you can then do to help - or to be more precise your dh can do - is give her space to be angry, sad, upset; space to hate as well as love. She is only small and probably finding it hard to deal with all of these emotions. (This is one reason why she is so cross with you in particular; if she feels abandoned by her mother, she may not dare to get cross with her father, in case he leaves her too. But it's OK to express all of her upset on you).

I think counselling would really help. Perhaps not family counselling (this is a message that she may not want at the moment) but for her on her own, it might give her a place where she feels valued and listened to, which I think is what she needs at the moment.

Hope this helps - and sorry it's turned into a bit of a long one.

OMG, 2cats, you are so right. Thankyou.

I hadn't looked to their family life pre-divorce, but, it does reach back there. And, it explains the difference between dsd1 and dsd2. The older child was at home (right up to part time preschool nursery aged 4) with bm and dh. He was a student at the time, and often was at home, studying, but home all the same. When they had dsd2 they were both working. She was in nusery full time by 1.5yrs. Dh had qualified by then, and bm had enough of doing the at-home-mum thing.

13yr old dsd is so solidly grounded and sure of their love, that her reaction to me, & the "blended" family situation, didn't last long (if at all really).

And you're also right that 8yr old dsd never gets cross/angry with dh. I thought it was simply because he is big and male and not a push over! Thought my own (tiny but v feisty) 6.5yr old was able to get cross at him because she's made of more bolshy stuff. But i see what you mean, it's a what-have-i-got-to-lose thing. Freedom to get cross is a good thing, means you are secure. is that what you mean?

What do you think about the confusion of the two different houses? Do you think the continuity and love of this house 12/14 would help her to feel less hard done by, and then maybe stop her comparing things and wanting material goods?

Oh good, I'm so glad that's helped you - I was a bit worried that I was just imposing my own stuff onto your situation.

And yes, feeling secure enough to be cross with someone is exactly what I meant - you're an easy (and safe) target, which is why you get the blame for everything. I spent a lot of time hating my step-mother, when really I was furious with my father.

As for what do to do about living arrangements, this is where I go hmmm, I'm not really a professional. So, with that disclaimer attached, here goes.

I'm not sure whether it will help or not - or rather it may be a bit of a drastic step too soon. One thing I do worry about is that she may feel even more rejected by her own mother if this happens (I'm sure, given what her bm is saying about the arrangements, dsd has picked up on).

The other thing is that, given that you've only been married three weeks (and congratulations by the way!) - this has probably made her behaviour worse. You're here to stay now, and she can't pretend to herself otherwise, so things may settle down in a bit too. Do you think this might be why her behaviour has deteriorated now?

I also think that you probably need to sort out your relationship with her, before she spends more time with you. If you can make your home a safe, reliable place for her (which probably does mean you taking on a parenting role, however much you want to get away from that right now) she will probably respond to in the long term. At the moment she's playing you off against bm, and currently she's winning. But I think your dh will have to be a bit more hands-on with the discipline too, to make this work.

But one thing I think would really help - and it's certainly what I would have wanted at this time. That is for her to be a bit more singled out by your dh. Get him to take her out for some special treats once every couple of weeks, and make a fuss of her. In the end, he is the only person in this situation who can really reassure her, and it's a job that needs to be done. And I think that your older dsd is mature enough to understand, from what you are saying.

(The single thing I hated about our family situation was that my father tried to treat all of us equally, when my stepmother was very clearly in favour of my step-brother, my brother was my mother's pet and I was left with no one.) But - to reiterate what I said in another post - I think some kind of low-key counselling for her would also help with this, as well as giving her some space to articulate all of her troubling feelings.

As I said before, I think the material goods are just a diversion - or a symbol almost of the love which is what she really wants (I used food for the same purpose, and got into a real cycle of over-eating and stealing food, because to me the food represented the love I felt I wasn't getting from anywhere). So I think if you can help her with her feelings, she will be able to cope with the differences between the two houses much more easily.

Oh, and a final thought (from a bossy small child) is that perhaps she is very domineering with your kids, because she feels she has no control over any other part of her life? It strikes me that she is, under all the anger, very small and very scared.

And can I also say, I think you are being wonderfully articulate and considered about this, which in itself is the best thing you can do (my father and step-mother wanted everything to be fine and so stuck their fingers in their ears and ignored all the signs to the contrary - which to my mind now was probably the most damaging thing of all).

Thanks 2cats! This is great! I feel so much better to get this off my chest, and it's not all to dh! Tonight we may actually be able to have a conversation about something other than dsd-situation. Football or Steve Irwin or the woodburning stove we're choosing. Ah, to chill and have a non-heavy evening.

Also, youngest ds, starts school on Wednesday, and i've hardly given it a second thought, as yet. Oh God, if am not careful, will start feeling guilty 'bout that. Esp. if it doesn't go well. I'll be saying, If only I'd prepared the poor little darling better, etc etc.

Still need help on the practicalities of counselling. ANYONE?...

Doesn't seem to be much around for stepfamilies. Maybe the GPs the best person to see.?

Hurrah! And one final thing I wanted to say, is that despite all the gloom and upset, I ended up as a relatively well-rounded human being with a good degree, and a media career which I'm just about to jack in to have my first child with DH. So don't feel that anyone is necessarily going to come out of this scarred for life (even you!). It's a phase, and a horrible one, but it will work out.

As for counselling - a lot depends on what you can afford. I went privately, and would recommend this if you can (some people will give discounted rates too). Then you just try the relevant institution (there must be a Something of Family Therapy, or if not try the Tavistock Centre). Failing that, GP, health visitor, or possibly Relate?

And mmmm, woodburning stoves. Definitely worth it.

Thanks for all that .

First baby - how exciting for you. Good luck with the birth and all that is beyond.

How's your relationship with your mother (& your step mother, for that matter), by the way, if you don't mind me asking; Now that you are producing the next generation?

Tell me i'm a nose ointment if you want. You didn't invite questions, but i am curious about how things work out...

Hello - no I don't mind answering questions in the slightest - was more worried about taking over your thread and going on about myself (me! let's all talk about me!).

But interestingly, I'm finding it quite hard to answer. The basics are quite simple - I think that I came out of the whole divorce thing as a fairly self-reliant person, and I think this is still true of my relationships with my parents, we talk, but I don't confide in them a great deal, and wouldn't necessarily say that we are close.

Quite a bit of this, I think, comes out of the specifics of the situation. As I said before, the thing I resent most about my parents divorce was the fact that they ignored my upset, and I was expected to pretend that everything is fine. This was particularly true of my dad- who basically wanted me to love my step-mother as though she were my mother, in order to make him feel better about what he had done. All of which has, paradoxically, made things much harder between us as I never feel as though I can be truly myself with her - and I still sometimes wonder about taking her out to lunch and talking honestly, as I think it would make us much closer. There on the other hand, she is still a rather strange Belgian woman with whom I have only limited amounts in common (my father did go out of his way to marry someone as little like my mother as possible...)

As for my mother, I've ended up in a position where I look after her more than she looks after me. She has had a tough life (living proof that emotional deprivation can happen where there is plenty of money) and has had periods of depression and alcoholism, so I tend to try and protect her a bit. We have periods of being close, and chat regularly, but I haven't lived with her since I was 7, which does give us a certain distance.

But you're absolutely spot on in recognising that the imminent next generation (first grandchild in the family too) does make a huge difference to all of this. Whereas before I'd come to a kind of acceptance of what happened and who my parents are, I am now finding myself more churned up about it all again. On the one hand, I am really missing having a close mother to look after me and share the experience with, on the other, the thought of having either my step-mother or my chain-smoking mother in the house for more than 48 hours once the baby is born is enough to make me want to emigrate to the outer hebrides.

And I also think that one of the reasons I've been quite ambivalent about having children until now, has been that I was afraid that if I did, I would turn into my mother. (Her life really started to go downhill then: she had a first child who died at birth due to huge physical problems, then me - a strange child she didn't understand and had PND after- then my brother, who was v ill and in and out of hospital, the strains of all of which were a big contribution to the divorce, and then she had a nervous breakdown, so it's not too much of a recommendation.)

I think she is also finding it a bit hard to deal with my being pregnant as well, I think it may remind her a bit too much of what happened to her.

All of which sounds very negative. But I know that I had a better childhood than my mother did, so it can only be better again for any child of mine, and I'm not my mother, or likely to turn into her, so it will probably all be fine (even if my father does keep issuing Cassandra-like prophecies of PND every time he rings).

Sorry, that's very long, but like I said, the question really made me think!

Hiya! Shame about your Mum. But, glad you don't heed your dfs concerns about you being similarly affected. Sounds like she had a terrible time with motherhood. So, you lived away from her from 7? Does that mean you lived full time with this stepmum you opposed so strongly? I didn't quite understand that before, if that was the case. Are they still together, your dad and the stepmum? Sounds as though they are.

We didn't have a big heavy night discussing dsd, last night, Hurrah! We did talk a bit though. Dh now agrees that moving dsd in full time would be drastic and possibly unwise, certainly without taking advice first. We are meeting up with bm on Friday to discuss things. Not relishing the thought of saying things that may be taken as criticisms. At present she will not even admit there is a problem. Perhaps not even to herself. She doesn't want to have to change things in her own personal life. 7/14 days and nights to herself is what she's used to, on the one hand; and taxcredit help for a single mum, is what she's grown used to on the other. 50/50 suits her energy levels and financial planning.

Another problem we have to contend with is that dh and i split the children-to-&-from-school-duties down the middle. I take them each morning and he brings them home from afterschool club in the evening. Works well.

We live in the same city as bm, but on opposite sides. 6months ago we changed schools for the children, to one on our side of town, rather than hers. bm has always been in the habit of taking dsd to a breakfast club before school, so that she could be in work early/on time. Problem was that there is no b'fastclub at the new school. I agreed to let her drop dsd at our house, each day during her week, so that she could get to work whilst i take dsd to school with my dks.

Sounds fine and reasonable doesn't it? No skin off my nose, i thought.

Idea was that bm would need to get dsd to our house shortly after 8am, then dash off to work. School is 10 mins walk away, so we need to leave bang on half past to be there for the bell at 8.40. Our priorities in the morning are: breakfast, toothbrushing etc, clothes on. Kids can be slow and need to be chivvied along and absolutely are not allowed to start playing games, chatting, watching tv etc until they are ready to walk out the door. So that this routine wasn't interupted, resulting in late school marks, and a stressed out ME (who'd also be late for my own 9am start); dsd was supposed to come in at 8ish and then either go to her room and read or go to the sitting room and watch morning telly (and be joined by my snails, as and when they were ready).

The way things actually worked out were that they rarely arrived before 8.20! If it was me that opened the door bm tried to have a chat on doorstep (me in last throws of trying to find pair of tights without a hole in, for myself). Dsd, who, as i said in previous posts, doesn't respect a word i say, would go straight upstairs and distract my dks who'd be at a similar stage of readiness to their not-the-most-orderly mum.

Everything now pearshaped, me stressed & trying not to show it to bm, childrens speed gone from dead-slow to stop; And me left thinking "if its ok to arrive here this late, then why can't you take her up to school yourself rather than sabotaging my morning!" Sounds a bit over dramatic but it did mean that the day was off to a bad start.

There were several occasions when she didn't even arrive until we were leaving, or waiting to leave! Fine, didn't screw things up inside the house. But why on earth bother, at that time. To top it all dsd would do things like open her lunch box and show off, her tv advertised, overly packaged "lunchbox" treats to the other dks. And not speak to me except with one word replies and certainly no Bye-Bye volunteered. Just down right rude.

God, i sound like a crabby old git. But as i describe it, it makes me annoyed. Sorry .

Anyway, last week i started dreading the return to school, & the irritation of being used as a convenience. I'd agreed to the arrangement under the impression i'd be a neccessity. (Btw, it annoys so strongly because there were many occassions before i came along, when dh really needed help which she could have given but wouldn't (though took help from him many times!!).).

I revealed my growing irritation to dh, and said i want to, for once, treat one of my kids as THE most important and make sure that i wasn't stressed out on my dss first day at school. (Nasty way of putting it, yes. But trying to be honest, rather than letting resentment build).

He understood (tho' later revealed that he thought this was further rejection of his dd & "how do you think it makes her feel?", well hopefully her bm has had the sense to say some thing other than "aye up, yer not wanted lass!"), and phoned bm to say could you take her yourself this week, and we really need to talk about all this stuff soon, and stop hiding from it etc etc. She was not pleased and said "well i suppose so, but only for this week."

There are many kids who get to school at 8.15 and wait in the playground (there is a rain shelter). She has shown us that getting to work on the dot of 8.30 isn't that important.

I'll preview this now - eeek, i bet its one of the longest yet...

Oh dear, i am a dreadful waffler. this is total indulgence. Thank god the dks go back to school, and i go back to my work, tomorrow; and I can't waste a whole hour tip-tapping away on Mumsnet!

My dks have watched nearly the whole of a Harry Potter movie. Must shut up and take them to the park.

Thanks for reading this (if you got this far!).

PUT A SOCK IN IT!!!!!!

Don't worry about the rant, I think we are both getting things off our chests. I thought my last one was pretty excessive - this thread must look as though we are both being paid by the word!

But - and I know this will sound odd - your last rant I think is much more positive. You're not really moaning about dsd, but about bm and how that is impacting on your life. Which is a pain, but much more normal for families in your situation, and also much more manageable. I hope that things do get better - and I think that the sulkiness and rudeness on dsd's part may be a recognition that she's not getting from her mother what you're giving to your kids.

I do feel sorry for her (remembering being 8 myself), she's in a horrible position where she feels that she isn't anyone's priority and that she gets second best all the time. But that's not something that you can sort out on your own. And so I do think that if your dh thinks that she is being a bit 'pushed out' he needs to make the compensatory fuss at other times.

And yes, despite my best efforts as an 8 year old, my dad and my stepmother are still together (hence the fear that she will try and come down and stay for weeks when I have had the baby!).

Good luck with talking to bm on Friday - what do you think will come out of it? It doesn't sound as though she's going to change her attitude, which is a shame, as that's one of the things that would make the biggest difference.

Hiya! Nervous about tonight. I sent bm an email 2 days ago along the lines of "you must be wondering what's going on, with us wanting a chat & so on; thought i'd fill you in a bit..." I thought it was kindly put. Was meant to reduce apprehension. No reply tho'. Not really sure what this means. Eeek.

Also feeling a bit gippy at the thought of seeing dsd too. Don't know what bm said about me not taking her to school, but, she's been ignoring me and my 3dks at school this wk. Can't say am surprised really.

Oh well, just have to crack on. Made an appointment for dsd to see GP with dh. Hoping dr will have somesort of state-funded counselling to offer. It'll help for dsd to talk to someone completely neutral about all this stuff.

Thanks again for your help.