thoughts on teenage children of two homes

[stepthisway]

Does anybody have views on whether teenagers of seperated parents should be forced into strictly prescribed staying contact ie, half holidays and every other weekend when they actually want more or less?

I have both extremes of this at the moment...

My 16 yo SK is all "set" up at his mum's house. He is happy to come to see us but wants it to be on his terms ie, when he fancies it. At 16 he doesn't like being dictated to. We totally agree with him on that but he is still being forced to come here - result he sits there miserable until he is "allowed" back into his own house! The way I see it, his house (either here or at his mothers) is his house and he should be welcome at either place day or night - I would never turn him away if he turned up but that is just what is happening when he tries to go home (to his mums) during "our" contact time - he is not allowed in! We only live a short drive/bus journey away.

My younger SK (conversely) is desperate to live with us half the time and will stay here as much as mum allows (which is not that much really). They are just very different and therefore have different views on how they want to live their lives. My younger SK is much more "set up" here than the older as has lots of friends etc close by us.

Its strange as if they want to come to see us they aren't allowed but if they don't want to be here then they are forced! Any ideas on this - I find it kind of odd?.?!!

Incidentally I have known both of them for years and get on great with them - I just think that as kids become young adults they should be treated as such and have their opinions listened to - what do you all think?

sorry meant to add that my younger SK (who is depserate for more contact) is not allowed even one hour more than his mum agrees. To the point that if he turns up here unannounced after school and his mum has told him he can stay out until 6.30pm with his friends, once she finds out he is with his Dad and not with friends he will have to be back by 5pm!!

I cannot imagine my SDS's mum ever behaving the way you describe. No experience sorry but maybe both parents should sit down with their kids and discuss how to improve the quality of their lives.

They have been to mediation a few times actually but a couple of years ago. But I don't think mediaiton would work on this issue unless the kids were both present (so that it was more of a family conference, appropriate given their ages and the particular situation). She won't go to mediaiton with the kids there so not sure that will work.

It is peculiar I actually don't think she has really stepped back to examine it. We half suspect it could be driven my her hubby hence the other post ie, maybe he wants "time off" from both SK and thereefore insists that both of them must go together?? Just a thought.

Its very frustrating for both kids esp the elder one as it is quite humilating and belittling. I am not sure she intends it that way as I think she is a good mum, I just can't work it out. I really think that as kids get older, if you live close to each other, there is some benefit to "relaxing" the contact arrangements and letting kids have a bit of choice in what they do.

stepthisway - I wasn't thinking of formal medition rather that both kids and both parents have a face to face chat. If dad wants more time to himself then is it probably going to be tough on him. In my experience parents fit in with their kids not vice versa. I have a sister close in age and we always did things together I would have loved it if my parents took me out for something on my own but it never happended. Maybe the boys want one to one time with their dad and also a break from each other.

My Dh doesn't want more time to himself as obivously he only sees them every other weekend, half the holidays so can hardly feel that way but I suspect maybe that the stepdad does as he does have the kids with him most of the time (which is actually something my DH would have loved but obviously different if not your own).
I agree family conference is a good idea but not sure she would agree if the kids were there.

I think at 16 years old things ARE different and to an extent its tough luck if the parent (or step parent) wants "time off". After all parents who are not split never get time off. I also hate the fact of forcing him to come to ours on those occasions where we know he would rather be at his mum's house surrounded by all his stuff and visitng us/staying the night of his own accord. Strangely on a number of times when he has arranged independently to see Dad he has been asked to come home quickly! it seems to be her way or the highway where contact is concerned (wasn't always like that though - when he was younger she let him choose whether to see his Dad for long periods of time) and while I agree rigid contact schedules can be great for younger kids in my view 16 years old is a young adult!

Thanks for your thoughts

My 16 and 13yr olds are still expected to go to their dad's every other weekend, but we and him have been as flexible as we can to fit around their social lives. I want them to go regularly in order to maintain their relationship with him and his family which would suffer if they didn't visit cos he's crap at contacting them otherwise.

Thanks

In our case, its not an issue fitting round their social lives really cos we live so close and both have friends, cousins etc over at both houses, plus DH takes them to any parties etc they need/want it and they know that. We even have cousins from their mum's side regulalry stay at ours on sleepovers and would always change contact it their mum wanted them to attend something with her family for example or if they wanted to, we are very flexible. I guess part of the issue is that the older one doesn't hae a very active social life for various reasons which does make him a bit miserable (understandably) I just think he prefers to be miserable in his own room (where he has lots of expensive gadgets etc to occupy him) than at our place where he tends to get stuck just watching TV.

I agree contact is vital but in our case DH and both his kids are always in contact with each other and both of them know they can come here whenever they want (plus they love their sister who lives here full time). They are quite comfortable with the idea of having "two families" and "two homes" which is great, but you can imagine how it feels to have a 16 year old who is miserable because he is benig forced into coming. Obivously it hurts DH to an extent sometimes but he acknoweldges the reasons why his son prefers to be "bored" at his mums than here and hates the fact that he is forced to come here - it puts a strain on their relationship and means it is impossible to get him to enjoy anything - he would rather be out with his friends (of course) but failing that would rather be in his own room playing his music etc - he doesn't want all that stuff here either as he doesn't think it is worth it. Dh hates to be forcing a 16 year old who he sees as a young adult and, to be honest, it has a much bigger negative impact on DH than it does on her as he is the one who bears the brunt of it. This, coupled with fact that the other son who wants to spend more time here is not allowed to, is kind of hard to reconcile. The only way I can make sense of it is to think that it is all about convenience of mum/stepdad wanting a "break" from the older kids - ok I understand its nice for them to spend time as family with their other child and without these two being there but I just think that as kids get older you need to listen? 16 is not a baby!

Maybe there is no easy answer.

Waggles - if your 16 year old said he wanted to come and go to his Dads as he pleased and no longer have the every other weekend contact but, for example, drop by after school and spend the ngiht mid week, would you accommodate that?

We would have no problem with it, generally it's us who end up ferrying the kids back and forth anyway. Ex-h's wife not too keen on any change of routine and basically tolerates my kids, she especially doesn't get my 13yr old son cos she has 2 girly girls. Try to keep what they have for their sake but can see your point of view. In some ways it would be nice to have more flexibility, it would mean our family social time wasn't so restricted

In our case its DH who does all the ferrying back and forth to ours. Literally all of it not that its a big deal to him.

I think flexibility is good as kids get older for EVERYBODY. Accept that a rigid routine was good when kids were younger. If my DSS turned up tomorrow with all his bags and said he wanted to stay for a year then that would be fine that?s not the issue our house is as much his house as it is my DDs, its just that he doesn't want it like that and that's what makes it hard as 16 is too old to fob off with silly excuses and reasoning.

And there is a hisotry here, he went through a phase of going "off" his Dad (at least he told his mum and her family that was different when he was with us) when he was younger and she & her then DP sort of supported him in that and he didn't come to ours for a period of time - Dh was in contact with him over this whole period but acted ok with it and said he wouldn't force him - Then she decided she wanted him to come again as she was obviously finding it hard having him all the time and DH supported that but it was after this period that DSS sort of decided if he came to see us he wouldn't pack a bag or leave anything he liked here because he saw it as temporary measure and not something he was happy with so he didn't want to make any effort to have a good time here (he will hardly even leave the house when he is here). . But now he is 16 it seems unfair to be made the scapegoat on this esp as DH is not supported by her to the kids (she tells DSS a lot of negative things about DH we know this because he tells people this - not sayin that she doesn't have the right to tell her kids whatever she like but does make this situation harder to swallow as it is an inconsistent sort of attitude). When DSS comes of his own accord to see DH they always have a really nice time, when he comes because he is forced it is totally different and he is totally moody. He even had a massive party here for all his friends and had a great time so its not that he can't enjoy it here it?s the being forced that he hates and I have total sympathy with that - when I was 16 I was out and about doing all sorts on my weekends.

I don't see that this can continue for another 2 years until he leaves school - he is old enough to get married for goodness sake! Dh is half of a mind to just say - that?s it, if he doesn't want to come he is not coming but at the same time he doesn't want to say that iiykwim as in an ideal world DSS would like to be here every other weekend, half holidays etc and it does hurt a little (just like it hurts the mum when other DSS tells her he wants to stay here moe - its human nature to take it personall y but I don't think you should really).

Its difficult. I don't even seem to know what I am saying here but it is useful just to get it down somewhere safe and get some input even if specific advice is difficult. Thanks again.

Sounds like she wants things her way or no way. Can't understand why she needs rid of a 16yr old though, surely he can amuse and look after himself?
In her defence though i must admit that a break every 2nd week was great for me as a single mum and then with dh in our early relationship. Things change though, we're married and have 16month old, so wouldn't expect arrangements to stay the same.
Can 16yr old not negotiate with her knowing he has you on his side?

sorry misunderstood at first now I see step dad probably wants time to himself, not your DH. It is so hard on poor 16 yr old to be dictated to in effect my mum and step dad. Difficult age any way but he may feel unwanted in his own home. So of course normal that he is grumpy/resentful of your DH. Can also see things from step dads point of view, it is difficult having step kids. Yes in answer to your OP he is young adult and his desires should be respected.

I cannot understand why younger one can't come to your place more often. I think this may be easier to 'fix'. If mother could be persuaded that younger son is going through a 'phase' and can he now stay 3 nights this week. Maybe it would be better if you negotiated on a regular basis that way she wouldn't feel that she was loosing all control. I would hate it if my DD decided she wanted to spend more time at her Aunts for e.g. Is something going on with the step dad and that is why he wants to spend more time with you. Have you asked him?

Younger DSS has wanted to spend more time with his Dad for as long as I can remember, not because of his stepdad or because he doesn't love his Mum but more because he really really loves and needs his Dad and genuinely wants to spend more time with him. He asks her all the time and she always says no, Dh has been to mediation to try and agree extra days she said no, he akss again she says no, not even one day extra not even one hour extra after school. DSS has actually told DH that he wants him to take his Mum to court which I find amazing as I know he loves her very much it just shows what happens to a kid who is sick of not being listened to. DH would love to have him more but is not wild about taking her to court as they have avoided it this long and he doesn't want open warfare. I tend to think as he gets older he will vote with his feet and that we won't need court - DSS is very clear in his mind he wants one week on, one week off with both parents there is no question of loving one family more than the other in his head he has always found it very easy to "split" himself down the middle and not take sides or listen to negativity - much easier than his older brother.

DH has tried to talk to the mum about older DSS and the fact that he should be given choice and has also told DSS that he supports his views on this. But then we get a call saying come and pick DSS up he is standing outside the house and we are not letting him in . there is also the fact that he has spent the last 5 years telling mum and stepdad and her family that he "hates" his Dad on numerous occasions (usually based on stories he has been told by mum about maintenance - she tells the boys we don't pay anything regardless of what we pay but that is another issue!). All in all I am very proud that DH and elder DSS still have a good relationship as many other relationships would have crumbled under the sort of pressure they have been put under. I attribute it to DH's "unconditional" acceptance of DSS no matter what was happening and the fact that they were extremely close in the first 9 years of so of DSS's life and DH stayed home with him. So DSS would never " take a side" with DH against his mum's wishes which is nice really from her point of view & totally normal he never wants to say anything to her that she might construe as a criticsim and nor do I abotu my Mum! (just a shame he doesn't pay the same respect back to DH in respect of his mum and her DP but thats par for the course with teenage boys and their dads really).

I guess if I was being cycnical I would find say it is almost as if she wants DSS to be unhappy here but if I am honest I think it is more about wanting "time off" but also wanting to make it look to DSS like it is us forcing the issue rahter than admitting the real reasons...

But you are right Lasvegas it is really hard on DSS - he seems really quite depressed. It is humiliating. He is also quite confused/baffled as I do believe that he has been conditioned to believe that mum and stepdad love him and support him much more than we do so this is kind of hard to reason and justify as he knows we would never ever turn him away - even if he sat moody in the corner screaming how much he hated DH he knows that DH would still take it and be there for him the next day. IMO (having been around for nearly half his life) he has been manipulated over the years about his Dad (But I am not saying this is wrong on her part I know it is human nature to an extent) but he IS geneuinely confused and constantly "torn" about his Dad and his feelings for him and we have always known this and just try to deal with it best as we can and not apply the same sort of pressure at our end.

its difficult - DH says the facade is crumbling but is also feeling horrible for DSS and especially angry at the stepdad for making him stay outside in the rain and not letting him into his own house.

step. Maybe check with courts if at age 9 a child can choose who he lives with. If yes maybe this will be a way of acheiving the one week on and one week off that younger one wants. I understand that you don't want to antagonise but step son may see it as rejection by his dad that his dad is not willing to fight for what he wants. Mother and step dad seem bizare that they would leave someone out in the rain. Not as though he is a bad lad stealing, doing drugs etc he just wants to sit in his room! If I was a mum of a teenager I would prefer that they were at home not potentially up to no good out on the streets. In my experience as children become young adults they realise that parents are not perfect and have feet of clay. Maybe it is not a bad thing that elder DSS starts to realise that things are not black/white.