First time on here and new to being a step-mum in mental anguish!

[Lostlou]

I logged onto Mumsnet for the first time ever yesterday and actually, in a private moment, cried with relief that there are kind and helpful people out there as I read through loads of the threads on here. Apologies as I've not quite got to grips with all the acronyms used so will probably just type in full for now.

I just need some help. I'm 40 FFS and I've never felt so completely out of my depth.

I split up from my husband around 2 years ago. The divorce was finalised only a few months ago. No kids from that marriage (a conscious decision so no regrets there). In the meantime in April last year I met another man (who I will call my 'bf'). He has a 9yo daughter from a previous relationship (never married). He was very keen for me to meet her very early on. I actually met her when we'd only known each other for 3 weeks. I have seen varying views on this on a number of threads...

I should say at this point that his daughter is lovely and has never once shown any disrespect or rudeness towards me and will quite happily chat to me while we're in the kitchen baking, sorting hair for dance class, getting ready for school/work in the bathroom in the morning so no issues there either. I have also met 'the ex' who seems a reasonable and rational woman.

(And yes I realise while I'm typing this that I probably don't really have much scope for complaint, but...)

I moved in with him in October (and yes I know some will say that is FAR too soon). What I'm struggling with - and apologies if this post just descends into rambling - is his relationship / time with his daughter and with me. There are one or two occasions when things have really rattled me and I've ended up in tears, more due to my frustrations at myself for not being able to handle it - I've not thrown a massive strop (yet!!). His daughter spends around 2-3 nights a week with us and some time at the weekend.

The main points really bugging me at the moment are:

1. is it unreasonable for me to expect maybe one night a week (or fortnight) when we have 'date night' to do something like a newly dating couple might? I'm very conscious that I'll never have that new couple type of relationship with him like you would if there are no kids. I don't mean going out for expensive meals it might even be a night in when he stays away from the garage and the bikes within it.

By way of example the other week he'd told me (told, not asked) when we were having his daughter as he'd arranged it with his ex. Not really that bothered so fine! As a result, I asked if we could go out on a 'date' (only to the bloody cinema) on the one night - Friday - that we had free and to ourselves as he had been busy doing other stuff the other evenings and the weekend would be taken up with those activities too. All arranged. Then at the last minute he decides he wants his daughter there on the Friday night as well, so we don't go out!! Grrrr. I just ended up sounding really childish and selfish by saying 'but I thought that was OUR night', a night HE initially chose to fit round his other activities and when he wanted his daughter. I appreciate that she is always going to come first but I don't know how to handle it.

2. I feel somewhat resentful that I might be treated like a glorified babysitter. Another time he's played the 'I really want my daughter here I don't get to see her that much really' we had her overnight on a Friday and into Saturday and on the Saturday morning he asked if I 'wouldn't mind looking after her for a couple of hours or so as I want to go out on my bike with the lads'.

Surely if he wants here there, he should be there with her. Or am I missing the point?!?! HELP!!!!

My reaction (not handled very well I don't think) was to say no I wasn't going to stay and be a babysitter and if he wanted 'dad time' and 'bike time' then he had to work them round each other and maybe not go out in the bike gasp!!

Obviously if there was ever an emergency of course I'd look after her if necessary - that goes without question. My difficulty is how much I'm expected to just step in as almost a third parent and how much I should say 'not my responsibility - sort it out with the ex'.

I am completely new to all of this and feeling very overwhelmed. I have no close friends or family who have been through this sort of thing and I would prefer not to screw it up.

Any suggestions for handling/negotiating stuff like this would be very gratefully received.

And if you think I'm being ridiculously selfish (and yes I can see the fingers wagging with a 'you knew what you were taking on surely') then please say so.

Thanks.

I don't believe any step parent knows what they are taking on and how they will cope until they are in the situation - after all you don't have 9 months of ever increasing hormones to help bond with the child.
I knew about dsd, met her a few times but not often and only had her to stay when dh and I had been together for 9 years!!!! (we lived abroad and she never came to stay with us but he came home to see her by himself) and still I was not prepared for her coming to stay with us and then finding myself entertaining her for weeks at a time (a month was the first and the longest visit) while dh worked full-time every single day. My dsd was a lovely 11 year old at the time but neither she nor I had envisoned a summer spent in each others company while her mum went on an extended holiday and her dad worked. When I suggested that she come to stay when dh took time off work both her parents refused and she never stayed with us again. Well, there was a bit more to it than that but I am pretty sure if I had shut up and put up then it would have continued with me being the babysitter (I worked from home and could easily decrease my work load - as I did when she stayed).
Obviously I did not handle it in an exemplary way so am not best placed to offer advice but did not want to leave your post unanswered.

Firstly – welcome to the site, it is indeed a huge relief when you realise that other people are experiencing the same problems.

I was 36 (with no children) when I met my husband, we’d both been married before. Having one step child on an alternate weekend basis was a huge shock to the system and brought challenges that I’d never envisaged in a million years.

But to answer your question:

(1) No, it is not unreasonable to expect one night per week or fortnight as ‘quality time’ with your partner. If you had a resident step child, this might be tricky, but when your partner isn’t the resident partner, then I think your request is quite OK. Admittedly if there’s some sort of emergency, you wouldn’t expect your cinema plans to come first, but if it’s just a case of someone changing their mind, then I’d be pretty miffed. If a man with children actually wants a partner, then he has to make space for her in his life, you can’t always be side-lined.

(2) Ah, this is the wonderful “access by proxy” parenting model. The man likes to have his child “under his roof” regardless of whether he’s actually there or not. As far as he’s concerned, if the child is at his house, then meaningful access is taking place, even if he’s absent. This needs nipping in the bud as soon as possible.

Hello there

Agree completely with what the posters above have said - it's nothing to do with wanting to block access or reduce the time he spends with his DD, just basic respect to expect him to agree contact times with you first unless there's some urgent reason why he can't.

And you're absolutely right about needing to make space for some couple time - DP and I have 6 kids between us, but do still make time to go out with just the two of us. Thankfully my DP understands this need otherwise I think we'd really struggle. I do find it easier to actually go out rather than try to have quality time in the home - as my DP is just like yours at being able to find things to do around the house and we don't really get proper time to talk if we're at home so easily.

Your question about looking after her for small bits of time is a difficult one - DP and I certainly do look after each other's DCs for small bits of time here and there, as it just seems to make life easier that way. You can't really go shipping a child between houses for the sake of a couple of hours out with your mates, can you? And looking after a child when their parent isn't around is a really good way of building up a closer relationship with them. So I wouldn't rule out ever doing it and insist that the only people who should ever be caring for his DD are him and his ex. But I suspect you were grumpy about this request because he'd not shown any respect for the times you'd blocked out together on the Friday. If he could show you that he values couple time too, then you might feel more easy going about looking after his DD for a bit of time here and there.

Also sounds like the contact arrangement he has with his ex is very vague. It's good that they're flexible with each other, but you might find things a bit easier if you could encourage him to get things a bit more formalised and regular. Better for his DD too to know where she's going to be and not have it changed around all the time.

Hello to you all and thank you so much for taking the time to post your thoughts! I really am struggling and feel like I'm losing the plot a bit. However your comments have given me something to work on and think about...

We are supposed to be having another go at 'date night' again suggested by bf as maybe he is feeling guilty so we'll see.

I'm also having a look at step-parenting books online - I did a quick Google. I remember a thread on here somewhere that mentioned a couple so might give them a try.

OP, your OP made me smile - in recognition. I met DH 3 years ago when I was 38; he has 3 DCs and I have none (although I'm 37 weeks pregnant with DC1, which will change things again...) I've been through all the things you describe, and felt similarly lost and out of control - but it gets easier! I don't think you're being unreasonable at all, but I do think you need to stick with it and make sure, gently, that your DP appreciates your viewpoint (in my experience that can take a while). I think you're right to want to look at some of the books recommended by other SMs on MN - I found several of them helpful in that they validated my feelings and made me feel I was entitled to fight (again, gently) for what I needed. The Wednesday Martin one was particularly helpful.

You had no idea what you were getting into - how could you? And that's probably not a bad thing...

Morien,

thank you! And congratulations!! :-) All the best to you in this.

I've ordered the Wednesday Martin book - thanks for the recommendation - I've read a few pages as it's a 'Look Inside' version on Amazon. It is making me feel a bit better!

Hi Lostlou,

Glad you've found some solace here. My situation is a bit different in that I have my own children as well but can relate to some of your issues and it is still quite early days for us.
Regarding 'date night' - I would consider it a must. Me and dp made a promise to each other before he moved in that we would give ourselves a 'date night' every week. Depending on whether our children are with their other parent or not that night might be in or out. The way I see it is, things are always going to be hard for us with exes, kids and emotional baggage from our previous relationships. We have decided that we need to look after us and part of that is 'date nights'. This was also recommended in one of the step-parenting books I read (I went for the books more on blended families) as we are the ones holding the family together. Perhaps some of his reluctance to do this is to do with guilt. He may feel guilty about prioritising the relationship. Of course she is going to come first, but if your relationship is going to stand a chance is has to take priority sometimes.

With the looking after his dd, it's a tricky one. It kind of depends on how long it is for. As a separated mum, I'd feel hurt if I found out that my children were being left with someone else for a long period of time during their contact time - they could be with me instead. But then if it's only an hour or so, then you could look at this as an opportunity to develop your relationship with her on a one-to-one basis.

Good luck :)

Hello there.

I also think you shouldn't rule out tine alone with dsd but think it shouldn't be. "expected".

So he shouldn't arrange to go biking when he can't arrange for a date night!

If he had to work on a one off thing like a wedding or stag do came up, then I think you should support him but otherwise, no. Especially if he's chipping and changing plans without your input!

You need to be firm and don't let him try and make you feel guilty.

OP my DH moved in with me when we first started our relationship, we'd known each other years but we had a very short courtship and mostly I just had to get used to DSS being here and DH being a parent. I wasn't a parent then but I am now and I understand the desire to spend as much time with them as possible.

I have occasionally babysat whilst DH did errands or worked but he would ask first. Likewise when DSS was ill DH asked me first before discussing with ex that DSS could stay over here instead of his mums.

I think the key is to accept occasionally you may need to do some parent like tasks, but your DP needs to treat you with respect. Yes he is the dad and his child comes first but this should not come at the expense of basic courtesy.

Does he view you as his little wifey keeping home and looking after his children because having a womb means its what women do? And therefore he can do man things like poncing around in Lycra with his mates?

Welcome!!
No you never can have any idea what you are getting into, personally if knew half of what was ahead when I met DP I'd have run for the hills!!!
You are really not being unreasonable here. So your BF has a DD. Well he has a girlfriend too so although you will of course come 'second' to his DD at times, its perfectly reasonable to expect to come first at other times.
DP and I would not be together if we didn't get regular 'date nights' (although usually we stay in with a take away and watch a film rather than going out) its about having that time to be together as a couple.
And yes. If his DD is with him she is his responsibility and he should spend time with her. Access by proxy is crazy and seems to be more about taking the child away from the other parent and less about the child.

Kaluki has a good point there. Removing the child from their ‘other’ parent can often be about guilt, point scoring, entitlement, not about spending time with the child. You hear of men who fight bitter battles to secure significant amounts of access that they simply can’t honour. Dad might win the battle to have the child for 50% of the summer break, but as he works full time he isn’t available to spend that time with this child, and that’s when the new wife/partner can often find herself child-minding throughout the school holidays etc.

Interesting points some of you are making about 'access by proxy'. I don't mind spending time with DSD as she is so lovely (and asked bf if I was going to move in because she'd like it!!!) BUT I do need time to be 'me' sometimes even if she is there and sometimes I can't.

What happens quite a lot is bf spends lots of time (most of spare time) 'tinkering' in the garage on bikes - admittedly mine if something needs repairing on it but obviously DSD doesn't want to spend hours watching her dad in a freezing garage, though it won't be too bad when it's warmer and she can play outside.

Bf says 'you don't HAVE to spend the time with her if you don't want to' but what am I supposed to do - ignore her?! It doesn't seem fair on her, or me, quite a bit of the time.... so we bake or watch dance videos (she wants to go to stage school), watch her dance, or do hair/nails.

Anyway it is apparently 'date night' tonight so we'll see if (providing he actually remembers it's date night):

a) he's out of the garage when I get home around 6pm - he's had a day off today;
b) he remembered to take the bolognaise sauce (prepared by me) out of the freezer as I requested this morning;
c) he has sorted the beer/wine and and a suitable film and put the tonic in the fridge for a G&T as we are not going out.

Thank all so very very much for your input so far - I have actually had a little chuckle about some of the comments above, resorted to black humour, and consoling myself that it's not as bad as some (and reading some of the other threads I know I've got off lightly).

Slight update re above...

a) he was just getting on the static trainer in the garage when I got home and needs to be on it for an hour;
b) he forgot the bolognaise; and
c) remembered beer and put tonic in fridge but no mention of wine or film.

I am not too fussed about a) as I'd probably faff around for an hour when I got home anyway. More irritated by b) but remaining dignified and not showing it. I considered reminding him as he headed off to the garage (for bike tinkering) as I got in the car to go to work this morning, but knew I'd get a 'do-I-look-like-a-complete-muppet-and-you-only-asked-me-at-breakfast-30-mins-ago' scowl. Who knows about c) he might have hidden some champagne somewhere (not holding my breath) and there is talk of 'Anchorman'!!

And I'm just painting my nails, about to hit the gin and hopefully sending waves of sympathy over the ether to everyone else on here in the meantime...

Hope you enjoyed your date night [

I'm not going to repeat some of the sage advice above.
In my experience it took DP a little while to adjust to the fact that I was not his wife and mother of his kids and I wasn't there to babysit - but both he and his ex-wife really stepped up and were kind, reasonable with each other and always put the kids first. For quite a long time though I would not have tolerated him doing an activity when the kids were with us, it was his time to be with his kids, not doing hobbies.
You do have to be flexible and put the kids first, but not at the expense of everything else.

Your new DSD sounds lovely and I reckon over time, you will get to know each other better and hopefully have a good step parenting relationship.
If you've not had kids yourself (I didn't when I met DP) then suddenly finding yourself in this situation is a shock to the system.

Is it possible for you to move back to your old place OP?

You're not being unreasonable, but your dp sounds as if he is possible prone to taking advantage of you, so keep an eye on that! ;)

On the plus side, you're so lucky dsd is allowed to like you and does... lucky, lucky, lucky!

But time for yourselves as in any relationship is so important, sometimes more so in step-families because of the hierarchy. The kids come first, sure but you don't want to feel like you are second all the time. He has a responsibility to nurture you and your relationship just as well as nurturing his relationship with his daughter.

The lovely women who post on this site have given you great advice, (petal and stepmooster never fail to be the voice of reason and sympathy). Cant add anything. Just wanted to offer some support and say you sound lovely, and I think you should be commended for the effort you are already making, eg hair, nails dance videos etc. Especially as this must take adjusting to having kids around when you are not used to them, and then add the fact she is not yours into the mix to, takes a bit of getting used to. But you are trying, reading books, seeking advice, you sound like a really caring lovely person. Traits in step mothers that never fail to be over looked and taken for granted. Be kind to yourself, you are doing really well. As for your DP, he needs to make some effort, he sounds like he is being a bit selfish and should be making the effort to make you feel wanted and special, and he seems to be doing the opposite. Thats not on. He needs to be making the same sort of effort with you as you are with DSD. Talk to him, tell him how you feel, and how he can put it right. You aren't being unreasonable and you should be more interesting than tinkering with bikes, they wont keep him warm at night, id point that out. You go make yourself the biggest G and T ever, you choose the film, and relax. Your DSD and your DP are very lucky to have you, dont let them forget it lol x

No you are being totally responable. Same happened to me and I put my foot down. Arranged a trip to cinema and then dss decided he would visit a week earlier. DH wanted to take him with us. This would have resulted in me being a third wheel, him sitting in between us and talking all through the movies. Not to mention the post film review on the way home . It took some arm twisting but we went alone. My DH also uses the " I don't see him very often " card at every oppurtunity and then went they are together dss locks himself in the bedroom playing mine craft. Can't see the point of visits to be honest . Stick to your guns. Say no and mean it

Princessjonie I often used to question the point of DSS's visits too. For many years he'd simply spend the majority of the visit in his bedroom using his x-box. He rarely wanted to go out, which meant we couldn't either, so we were essentially under house arrest a lot of the time. DH was quite happy though, simply because DSS was under our roof.

DSS is now at Uni, and I'm very relieved that my marriage survived and that I no longer have to endure those bizarre weekends. Of course separated parents still want to see their children, but I'm not convinced that access weeks are necessarily the best way to do things. I don't have any better suggestions though.

I think your bf has set out his stall very early.
His priorities are:

His daughter
Himself
The Ex
You Im afraid are last on his list, that doesn't bode well so early on a relationship.

You have no ties at the moment, I would seriously be considering cutting my losses if I were you.

You've all been bloody brilliant - thank you! I got very upset on Friday night, later on. Eventually started crying (again, what the hell is up with me) and tried to explain that I needed more of his attention not necessarily his time in terms of hours. He might have taken this on board.

Today was DSD afternoon/night. DP went out on his bike this morning. Didn't ask if I wanted to go. Suggested we all went out for a trail ride and cafe this afternoon.

I said 'no thank you - I quite fancy the antiques fair at Tatton Park' so off I went. Just got back. No sign of them yet. So he has been enjoying one-to-one father/daughter time since 12:30 ;-)

That's the way to go I think. Do your own thing and leave them to it.

He does need to step up and give you more attention or you might start enjoying your own company and prefer it to his!!!

This is the thing OP that I'm struggling with at the moment. It seems we have to grow thicker skin and detach ourselves emotionally in order to cope as our partners seem to be not there for us!