When to tell 5yo SD (and her Mum) that we're having a baby?

[Angelina77]

I'm only very early on but I've been wondering about this since before I got pregnant. My partner's relationship with his ex has been quite fraught and they are still in mediation for their divorce, mostly finances as the access has been loosley agreed. He's been paying £500 in maintenance for 18 months but soon we won't be able to afford that and she's going to need to know about the baby.

He's probably going to have to tell her within the next month in the final mediation meeting but we're worried that she will then tell SD and we would rather it came from us.

So, should we tell SD soon, when she's with us and then let ex know over the phone before SD goes home? Is that a really bad way to handle it?

Anyone else in the same boat?

My guess would be that knowing about the pregnancy would make her less reasonable not more.

More that if you can't afford to have two families, maybe you shouldn't have two families.

Well Wallison, my DH didn't abandon his ex wife to start a new family with me. He was his ex wife's 2nd husband and DSS has 2 elder half siblings from her first marriage. So she'd be a big fat hypocrite if she didn't think DH was allowed a second go. His ex wife replaced DH with her now husband number 3. She wrecked her own family not my DH.

So seeing as she was entitled to go starting over for a 3rd time, DH thought after 3 years of single life he would quite like to find someone to fall in love with and grow old with, and you know generally be happy.

Now dear if his ex was a struggling single mother things might be different but she works, her husband does too and they enjoy more luxuries than we ever could.

So no, not feeling guilty about altering CM to CSA rates in this household. Besides we'd rather any extra went direct to DSS now he is older and can decide what trainers etc he wants himself.

Personally speaking if I were ever to chuck my husband out and move my non-existant lover in I wouldn't expect any money from my ex.

Wallison
"More that if you can't afford to have two families, maybe you shouldn't have two families"

There is nothing in the OP or subsequent posts to suggest the OPs partner can't afford another child FFS. The OP's partner, who will be responsible for HAlF of his first child's costs, will be contributing £260pm to his ex, plus incurring 100% of the child's costs while in his care. To me, this is something MASSIVELY different from your not being able to afford more children accusation, so I can only assume you came on here to cause trouble or grind some axe.

Angelina, I noticed you asked me a question and I completely ignored it (baby brain). My income is not taken into account for the CSA calculation. My income and the fact i own my own home was taken into account for the financial settlement. The reason being we were already married, and this meant that DH housing needs had been met and his ex could have 90% share of the equity in the FMH. It's one of the reasons why some people who divorce go to strange lengths to deny co-habitting.

A bit extra equity was also negotiated for her because we anticipated having more than one child and CM would reduce. However it will be just over 18 months after our first was born before the CM actually reduces. (we've had 2 in kids in quick succession due to our ages).

We were up front and honest about our family plans, and you could say if DH had waited until after financial settlement to spend more than 3 days a week with me, get married and have a child his ex would have received less than she did which isn't fair. The solicitor did her nut when DH told her he was getting married and having a child, but not everyone is out to screw the other person for every last bean.

So in some ways the ex really did benefit from DH meeting me and starting over. I think she will receive £325pcm down from £400pcm come January, but only 2 out of her 3 children live with her and they are both at secondary now and there are no more childcare costs. She also receives about the same from her first ex husband. In our case at least I know she is not suffering due to our two little ones.

Thanks stepmooster I think we will be in the same boat although he hasn't been asked about my income and assets yet (I also own a property).

He definitely doesn't want to screw her over financially, he's agreed to accept nothing from the house, she's kept the car as well. We just won't be able to maintain £500 per month indefinitely, I think anyone would agree that is ott for 1 child.

op you say they are currently in the process of arranging finances, when you talk about maintanence is this just child maintanence or spousal maintanence as well, because you possibly need to take into account that while child maintanence is paid at the CSA rates she could be awarded spousal maintanence if, for instance, she gave up her job/career to bring up their child.

This would be separate from child maintanence.

Yes, just child maintenance. I don't think there is a claim for spousal maintenance but I'm not that au fait with the situation tbh. So far I think she has just suggested that she take some of his pension and split a credit card debt. Plus she keeps the house, contents and car. It might all turn nasty if CSA is mentioned though, in which case it will be in court and she'll probably go for everything she can get.

I want to believe that she would be more reasonable if she knew about the baby. She has been quite unreasonable and controlling in the past but she's also recently softened over various things. Probably because she is seeing someone. No-one seems to agree that telling her is a good idea though. Plus for it to be discussed in mediation we would have to tell her soon, and SD, that's my concern. I don't want to have to break the news to a 5 yo that the baby didn't make it.

When you go to mediation agree that you will always pay what the csa recommends. That allows for you to alter the payments when the new baby arrives without having to tell her about the baby. Then agree to pay for some extras such as school uniform, school trips, hobbies, etc. and you will be seen as more than reasonable.

I do agree with the poster who said that the csa calculations are a minimum that an ex should pay but you and your DP sound like good people who will provide more if you can. At least if you have a lower minimum payment (as per the csa calculations) then you can negotiate any extras.

I really doubt she would be more reasonable if she knew about the baby though - if your DP lost his job or something, then she might see that his income was stretched. But her reaction to a new baby on the way is not going to be the same as a job loss. I have a really easy-going amicable relationship with my ex, but was initially really hurt and cross about him anouncing a new baby (and he'd been married several years by then, so it shouldn't really have been a shock)

She is likely to think that he shouldn't have had another one if that means he can't afford to support the one he has. Yes, I agree with you that £260 a month is a pretty good contribution towards one child (I get less than half of that for two) but you've said that she's saying she can't afford to live on less, which suggests that she doesn't see it that way. The fact that she has children from a previous relationship isn't quite a parallel, because presumably she was supporting those by them living with her, rather than paying child support to an ex for them, and reducing those payments when she had a new one.

And yes, you're right - you don't want to get the 5 year old all excited about the baby and then have un-telling her compound the awfulness of losing it. So better to wait til the 12 week scan.

I just think CSA is fair and will avoid arguments in the long run. It adjusts with circumstances, his and hers, so if she does accept that without knowing about the baby and without going to court, that would be ideal. Here's hoping.

Angelina -not having a go at you.

"It adjust with circumstances" -to her it is adjusting to your change of circumstances not hers.

I am in that position, 2DCS, ex finally paying something. Has now moved in with OW and her 2 DCs and his contribution goes down because of her 2 DCs.

The costs for his DCs has not gone down and I am expected to pick up the difference and I have not had a change in circumstance, pay rise etc - the rights and wrongs are what they are - but when you are on the receiving end it is galling.

Change in salary etc - have no issues with but him paying for someone elses DCs to the detriment of his own - sucks.

The CSA ceases to be in march 2014. After that parents with new cases will be expected to come to their own agreement or pay for it to be decided for them at a fairly high cost (10% I think for parent with child residing with them, 25% for non resident parent). Current case work will be finished up gradually until I think 2017?? Worth checking out.

They deserve, the OP is not about the nrp's contribution falling because of "someone else's children", its his child.

I imagine your situation in indeed galling. Same as when more children arrive in a PWC house and therefore less money for the existing children.

scarlett that's interesting, I had no idea. Thanks, I'll look into that.

Theydeserve I appreciate your position, I don't want SD's Mum to struggle but I know she won't. She has to become independent though, it's been 18 months and the money he pays is not for SD, it's for ex to live on. Not to sound harsh but he can't be expected to carry on supporting her forever, he's been massively more reasonable than a lot of men would be in this situation.

Also, what about if she moves her new partner in and he inevitably contributes? Shouldn't that be taken into account to? CSA says it should and if they make the decisions then no-one can argue about it.

The new system will still do you a calculation for free I think. It's if you want them to actually collect the money for you and hand it over that there's a charge (to both of you, so your DP pays more than CSA amount and his ex receives less). But you can still get them to calculate how much you should pay - that's all free and on their website.

allnewtaketwo you miss the fundamental issue that when a PWC decides to have more children, it is a decision that is made in the full knowledge that there will be extra costs and (hopefully), budgeting etc. takes place to accommodate that. When your ex/NRP has an additional child or moves in with someone with children, that is something entirely out of your control which has an immediate - and often significant - impact on your household budget. There is, of course, no impact on an NRP's household budget should the PWC decide to have an additional child.

There is a world of difference, in my opinion, between dealing with something you have control over and something you don't. I say that, of course, assuming (which is perhaps something one should never do with step parenting politics!) that the PWC having an additional child doesn't expect the ex to pay more because she suddenly has less money to go round.

I don't miss the point at all. There is less money for the NRPs child if the PWC has more children, full stop. That us outside the NRPs control, yet can have a substantial on the living standards if their child. Whatever the budgeting, more children means less money for existing children, whether the new children are those of the NRP or PWC. And in either case, ONE parent has no control over that choice.

No, you miss the point. There is no impact on the NRP's household's income should the PWC choose to have another child.

Theydeserve, his contributions really go down due to ow's children?

I don't miss the point.

In the OPs example, the difference in CSA payment is £30 upon a new NRP child. You are assuming that in each case, the PWC will choose to make up that additional £30. It is a choice. Particularly given maintenance disregard for benefits. The PWC can choose not to make up that additional £30, the impact being the children Have less money spent on them. Same as for an NRP when a PWC has a new child and spends less on the existing children. They can choose, or not, to make up for that.