17yo DSS1 refusing contact just before our wedding. Advice?

[StepMonster2013]

Hey guys,

I've got two DSSs - DSS1 has just turned 17, DSS2 is 13. I've been with their dad for 5.5 years. Getting married in October.

H2B is a very hands-on father. The boys have always been with us around half of the time. Normally one weekday evening and then full-time every Friday pm to Sunday. My relationship with them has been pretty good so far - ups and downs, but for the last 2-3 years we've been pretty much a family, if that makes sense.

DSS1 has been difficult for about a year and a half. Fairly late for puberty, but it hit him pretty hard. So he's been moody, lots of trouble at school (now college), not taking care of himself properly, very lethargic, no motivation for anything, pretty unpleasant to his brother and other siblings (at his mum's).

Recently, it's got out of control a bit. Started before Easter when he decided not to come on family holiday with us. We decided be to cool about it and give him space - he's old enough. Then before leaving heard on grapevine that he had invited a few dozen people to a party at ours while we were on holiday - no huge argument, but his dad decided to confiscate DSS's house key at the time. Then huge amount of trouble at college - I went to meet DSS's tutors for a routing catch-up and found out he was v close to being kicked out. Then girl trouble - unprotected (!) sex with a girl far too young for him, etc. So quite a lot of drama ensued and all adults (me, Dad, Mother etc) put a fair bit of pressure on him to sort it out. He obviously didn't enjoy it, but made it throught the college year at least...

Then my birthday came around - and DSS1 completely ignored it. Refused to congratulate me even when his dad subtly reminded him. DSS2 got me a card and present and was really sweet. Then his dad's birthday - same thing. DSS1 completely ruined the birthday night out for his dad - made us wait 20 mins when we picked him up from his mum's, didn't even say Happy Birthday, had no present or card, refused to eat anything in restaurant, that kind of thing.

I tried to talk to him about it (we used to be able to talk!) and suggested he makes it up to his dad on Father's Day. DSS started shouting, throwing stuff around his room, etc. I lost it a bit and yelled back that if he wants to behave that way, then he'd better do that elsewhere, but not in our house.

So he walked out, walked back to his mum's (2hrs walk), and hasn't spoken to us since.

Generally, I'd say that he needs to cool down, realise that he can't treat his family like shit, apologise, and that's it. But it's just not happening - it's been over a month and my OH is beginning to freak out now. Our wedding is coming up and DSS is saying he won't attend.

I can't even begin to tell you how guilty I feel for more or less kicking him out.

Any idea how to get out of this mess?

Sorry about the long post...

My first thought is that he probably knows he's 'holding you to ransom' in some way over this, ie that you'll want him to attend the wedding so he thinks this means he can dictate the terms of a reconciliation.

You can't be expected to apologise for challenging him over his poor behaviour. Nor can you ignore bad behaviour just because there's a wedding taking place soon.

In your position I'd stick to your guns.

What does your DP want to do about it? What does his mother do or say about his lack of contact with his dad?

Kicking him out...well. Did you, really? I might have said the same to a 16 or 17 year old who shouted and threw stuff about in the circumstances you describe. My parents certainly would have said it to me. That doesn't mean they wanted me out on the street, and we all knew it - they were saying "there are rules in this house and if you are going to live here, you're GOING to follow them".

The difference - and this problem seems to come up a lot - is that your DSS actually had/has the option of going to another home and choosing not to come back. Most teenagers in a 'nonblended' family would not have that option.

I know that not everyone agrees. But I personally do not see any value in treating children (even teens of 16 or 17 who are still living as home and have children's responsibilities and capabilities) as though they were Adult People. DH and I would not, for example, give a 16 year-old the option of not coming on the family holiday. And I would not give my teenage child the option NOT to see his other parent. Even if the visits were spent sulking - without contact, there can be no chance for the relationship to develop naturally, and that includes the good bits AND the tensions and fights and horrible scenes of adolescence.

I can say this, of course, because I CAN do these things - I don't have an ex or another parent actively encouraging the teenager in another direction. My stepkids are dependent on DH and I not just financially and emotionally, but also logistically and practically, and they don't have somewhere else to go! I'm not sure what YOU can do - you certainly don't need to go groveling back to your DSS and beg him to come. You're perfectly entitled to yell at a teenager and tell them off and yes, tell them things won't be tolerated under your roof, and the fact that he can just react with an extended pout - well, its not right. I'd be inclined to try once more - or rather, get your DP to try once more - attempt a mature discussion about limits and expectations, and extend an invite to the wedding along with letting DSS know he's welcome home anytime, but needs to follow the same rules as any other kid in a household. If he still refuses to come to the wedding, I guess you have to let it happen. You can't be held hostage.

Excellent post Brdgrl.

What's the relationship with his mum like? If it's reasonable, could your DP have a word with her so she can tell DSS firmly that he is expected to be round at yours at whatever time suits her, and that he will be going to the wedding? Will your DSSs have another adult with tem at the wedding? (their grandparents, aunty, etc?) Presumably you and DP will be quite busy, so if there's another adult going to be there for them, could that person have word with DSS?

Agree with Brdgrl that a teenager storming off after a row does not equate to "kicking them out". I did that a few times as a teenager, but not having anywhere else to go always came home after a few hours and was forced to make up. The two house situation makes it a whole load easier for an everyday row turn into a long term fall out - over stuff that really doesn't sound necessary to cause such big problems. My DSD stormed out and back to her mum's (a 5 mile walk!) a few months back after a big row with DP - but thankfully her DM sent her back the following weekend as per the usual rota (she has younger siblings to come all together). So if your DSS's mum is reasonable I think getting her on board would be helpful. That said, even a usually OK ex may be feeling less amicable than usual about supporting DSS to come to your wedding.

Many teenagers are thoughtless and don't remember anyone else's birthdays, I wouldn't make a big deal of it tbh - and a birthday present or card that you know has been forced out of someone is never that much of a gift anyway. Maybe allow him his right to be a selfish teenager some of the time. The family holiday thing is difficult though. If your DSC have another home they can go to, and a parent who is going to let them stay there, it's really not possible to force them on holiday with you. DSD has opted out this year, and without the support of DP's ex I can't see any way of making her come, much as that makes DP sad :(

Thank you so much, guys, your comments have been so amazingly helpful. Brdgrl & purpleroses, you're totally right, I did not actually kick him out. Must stop feeling so stupidly guilty about it all - but it's hard as DP is suffering a fair bit and I feel like none of this would have come about without me and my big mouth. sigh

I've followed your advice and asked DP to have another chat with XW. They're sort of civil to each other and she's struggling with DSS's behaviour as well and can't seem to get anywhere with it. She claims she tried to send DSS to ours the weekend after the argument and every weekend since, but apparently he is refusing to have anything to do with us and she feels that at age 17 he should be allowed to decide where he spends his time himself. This was her attitude about the family holiday as well. So that's no big help :-(

DP's family could potentially intervene here - we had a chat with the grandparents, who were kind of willing to help. They said DP should try once more first, reiterating what our expectations of DSS are but also stating that he is missed and that we would like to see him again. We kind of decided not to mention the wedding to him at this stage because we also think he knows he's got us over a barrel - so we'll try to separate the two issues (1: misbehaving teen; 2: wedding) and just try to deal with the first. If this attempt fails as well, then it's a case of granddad and favourite auntie having a go.

Bah. Can't believe the sleepless nights I'm getting over this! The only good news is that the younger DSS2 has been angelic since this happened, so I don't feel like a total failure!

I really don't think one can make a 17 year old be in a particular place if they don't want to be there. Although you can talk to them about their choices, make your own feelings clear etc.

I would have thought he'd be sad to miss the wedding. It'll be a big party and everyone will be there. Maybe if everyone just says, 'Of course it's your choice, but we'd love to see you there' and leaves it at that. Whereas lots of trying to talk him round, might make him dig his heels in and try and assert himself in the wrong sort of way.

I really don't think one can make a 17 year old be in a particular place if they don't want to be there.

I think one has to be able to do exactly that. Just like when they're three or eleven or fourteen...the 'currency' might change, but at some level, a parent still has to have the ability to say "no, sorry, you don't have a choice about this", and if the kid doesn't comply, there needs to be a consequence to that, whether it is being grounded, or losing a privilege, or losing pocket money.

My parents still decided where I went at 17. That doesn't mean they hovered over me monitoring my every move...but it does mean that if they wanted me somewhere - school, a family event, home at a certain time - they were able to say "this is what we expect. If you don't do it, there will be a consequence." And I knew I was living under their roof, and didn't get to do exactly as I pleased.

But anyway, sorry - OP - let us know how it goes. Maybe DP will get through to him ths time.

As my stepchildren grew older they did choose when they wanted to see their father and me.

Now that they are young adults we have good relationships with both of them.

I'd agree that it may be possible to force a 17 year old who is not economically independent to comply with parental wishes via threats - possibly laced with bribery. Perhaps my question would be whether the longer term consequences of doing so are desirable.

Yes, you might ensure attendance at the wedding. On the other hand would you be able to ensure cheerful, socially appropriate participation at the wedding? What would his likely attitude be after the event?

Maybe it comes down to a question of parenting/step-parenting philosophy. You can tell an angry upset 17 year old. 'You are still a child and you will do what we say, or else.' Or you can tell him. 'You are becoming an adult and you can make your own choices. We simply want you to think carefully about what these choices involve. And because we care about you, we do hope you will choose to take part in at least some of a special event'

Maybe it comes down to a question of parenting/step-parenting philosophy. You can tell an angry upset 17 year old. 'You are still a child and you will do what we say, or else.' Or you can tell him. 'You are becoming an adult and you can make your own choices. We simply want you to think carefully about what these choices involve. And because we care about you, we do hope you will choose to take part in at least some of a special event
There are times for each. As regards the wedding, I suggested above that if he really doesn't want to come, OP should let that be. But as regards visiting in general, I do think it should come down to 'or else', if that's what it takes.
It's certainly true that teenagers need to learn to make adult choices. But if they can't see the long-term consequences, or don't care about them, or don't see or care about the impact on others, then there need to be immediate short-term consequences created by the parent. That is how we help them learn what is right, IMHO. It is not enough to let them follow their own self-interest.

You can find ways of ensuring that a 17 year old DC who lives solely with you participates in family life as much as you think they should - if you want to.

But you cannot force a DC's other parent to do this on your behalf. So if the DC lives mainly (or even partially) in another household you either need a lot of goodwill between the parents, or to accept that your DC has an element of control over their own lives that a DC in an intact family wouldn't necessarily have. In that situation I think your bottom line is a whole load more shakey.

Yes, I'd agree that if a young person lives solely with you, there is a lot more room for maneouvre - and of course they may not have the choice of going to live at another family home.

I think my husband and I did want my stepchildren to be very much part of things. But we also acknowledged that part of their growing up was to want to distance themselves at time. It was a long term game. Not forcing certain issues in the hope they would want to spend time with us at a later point. By and large this has paid off.

Yes, absolutely, purpleroses - its the mother in this case who has the ability/opportunity and ought to be enforcing this. I just think its really bad that a parent would ever let their teenage child "choose" not to spend time with the other parent for these sort of reasons...obviously it is a different thing where there is any question of an unfit or abusive parent - but a kid going off in a strop and being given the means to stay away simply because he/she doesn't like the rules of the household or like the parent's partner, or has had a 'normal' teenage argument - that's not good parenting, IMO, and doesn't allow a normal dynamic to develop. I'd insist my kid went back to his dad's - even if he spent six months sulking over visits. I'd start by saying "ok, you don't want to go to dad's on Saturday? Then you don't go out on Saturday." A lot (though certainly not all!) of teens don't want to spend time with a parent anyway...add in the hassle of going to another location...and then a disagreement about limits and behaviour on top of that...sure, the kid may well say he doesn't want to go. Doesn't make it the best thing, and provides NO opportunity for things to be sorted out. And when the kid comes out the other side of his teenage years, there's no relationship there.

We do occasionally insist on participation even when DSS doesn't want to do things with the family, too. I haven't got a single adult male friend who complains "god - my dad forced me to spend time with him when I was a teen!" - but I have lots who say that they felt their dad didn't spend enough time with them, didn't want them around, or didn't care enough to fight for them.

I have a teenager who often takes a stance and then finds herself stuck on it and missing out. Don't know if it helps but I sometimes suggest that I am happy if she wants to drop it, and I won't mention it again. I have to be really careful not to! It works - any chance of this being the case with dss? Ie so entrenched in his stance he can't come back?