When does it become harassment?

[littlelamby]

I'm a step mum to two lovely DSCs with a lovely DP. Everything is good there. DP's ExP is very difficult and makes life hard for us. I'm not sure we agree on anything! The most fundamental thing we don't agree on is how important DP is to the children, and how important regular, reliable contact with DP is for the children.

As much as DP tries to distance himself and not engage, there's still a need for regular contact as we can't get any contact dates sorted at the moment (solicitor involved, so we'll see where that goes), and each weekend he's having to fight to see his children. They communicate via text and email, as phone or face to face ends in arguments. DP is a very patient, calm man (I know I'm biased!) and I'm confident is never 'nasty' - just sometimes firm. He sticks to the facts, the matter in hand (e.g. agreeing a contact weekend) and replies to factual accusations where he can.

Her messages, in contrast, are full of what I can only describe as libel! If she doesn't get her way, or he's done something to displease her, then he gets all sort - children don't love him, he's a liar, he's a crap father, children only tolerate us, he doesn't know them, he doesn't understand them, he doesn't care for them - anything and everything she can throw at him. We're both in a place where her comments don't make us question anything (I'm very confident that he's a great dad and DSCs love him very much and are very happy with both of us!), but getting this level of abuse, day in day out is very wearing. If she was just an ex and not mother of DSCs, I'm sure he'd have blocked her number/changed his ages ago. But obviously they need to have a way of contacting each other.

So my question is, when does this become harassment? If we ended up in court, would a judge take into account the way that they have both behaved in these conversations? Can we do anything to make her stop?! Feels unlikely, but wondering if anyone has an experience they can share with me! Thanks.

Sounds familiar. I await others' thoughts with interest as have little to offer apart from understanding but my thoughts are with you - it's not funny to see someone you love who feels that they do everything they can to be a good dad get abuse like this.

Um, sadly - no, it probably wouldn't be considered harassment, and no, the courts won't consider how you behave towards each other if its a routine contact order hearing - although it could be raised as a factor in later hearings if relevant.

It is however, very common, and can take years, if ever, to improve

If your DP gets the chance to attend the 'Putting Children First' course offered by CAFCASS - I can highly recommend it - my DP learnt several fabulous techniques for dealing with his (very similar) ex.

It's exhausting, draining and unfair - but just another one of those things many SM have to put up with

Thanks for the responses and the understanding! I'm in quite a good place with it at the moment, but I wish DP didn't have to get all this abuse.

Interesting to hear about the CAFCASS course - will definitely look into that, thanks.

NADM is obsessed with parenting courses and counselling sessions!

Its such a crap situation dealing with this day in and day out.

Does your DP respond to every text or email?

If so, this is fuelling her, and once you cut that fuel supply off, it'll be no fun for her anymore.

What i suggest is only reply to texts and emails that concern contact times and arrangements for the kids.

Any emails and texts that say the old chestnut of your a crap dad etc or the kids dont love you, you dont put them first etc then you ignore anything like that and dont text back.

She ll soon get the message.

Completely!

I'm so out of my depth, I need all the help i can get!

I'm mum to an 11 yr old DD who shares her time equally between ex and myself - he's difficult to the point of being labelled as un-mediable and amongst other things his behaviour has contributed to my total estrangement from my parents.

I'm SM to DSS (9) who has been subject to open alienation by his mum, and who had diagnosed medical disorders due to anxiety.
I'm estranged from DPs daughter who has also been alienated from her Dad.

And that's WITH all the professional support and advice I can lay my hands on. I daren't imagine what it would be like if I was trying to muddle through on my own

What I do have is an incredibly strong partnership with DP - and together, we really do feel as if we can cope with whatever is thrown at us. No harm in asking for help, though

And on top of that NADM you have the shit from each others ex partners!

DH used to do 50/50 care, it didnt work well for him, he only did it for about 7 months or so.

I ve tried so hard with my step kids, that i ve given up :-(

I now hardly see them, when they are here every saturday, im gone before he comes back to the house with them, and i dont return until they have gone home. They arrive at 10am and leave at 7pm.

Sounds awful i know, but i cant cope with their behaviour, and im ashamed to admit that they really irriate me :-(

Its my fault they no longer stay over night at the weekends, and they dont come for the week etc during school hols, its because i cant cope with them.

:-(

Dp often gets no replies to correspondence to his ex or waits to weeks for a response. She often says she hasn't received texts or e mails, which we know is just excuses.

Mediator agreed with them both that if she didn't reply within 24 hours, he was to resend email and follow up with a text.

When they went to court, judge said this was harassment on dp's part!

I agree that the way to control the situation is to ignore as much as possible, it certainly works for dp ex!

redhen I'm with the court on that one, I'm afraid

My ex would demand that I reply instantly to all text/email communication from him - he even demanded that I tell him whether I'd received a peace and love text he'd send me on Xmas day (DD was over 100 miles away with him), he was going to contact the phone company if not and complain!!! He tried to get me to agree a 24 hour response time in mediation, too. I refused. If its an emergency, he should call and leave a message if I don't reply - anything else can wait

If I choose not to reply to things he sends me, then that's entirely up to me - i am not trying to control him, just putting in place my own boundaries.

If he can't parent without constant, immediate access to me, them maybe he's not capable of caring for DD independently?

I see what you're saying NADM.

From the other perspective though, DP will send an e-mail asking, for example, if he can take little johnny to football on Weds night as he knows she is busy with little johnyietta. He sends it on Saturday night and we are still waiting on Weds lunchtime to find out.

He does a lot of this, it's not his night/day but he "volunteers" to help. Pisses me off because it's not his "time" to have the kids (rightly or wrongly) and then adds to my frustration by me not knowing what is happening on that night/day.

He sends her e-mails about holiday dates which she doesn't acknowledge, so he doesn't know whether she has got the e-mail or not, and we can't book our family holiday because we are waiting for her to tell us if the little johnyy/iettas have trips/exams etc planned. We are supposed to get all correspondence from school but it just doesn't happen and DSD1 is in 6th form now but she's hopeless at communication too. Can't think where she gets it from. We have booked holidays before after no correspondence for weeks only to be told that little johnny can't go after all.

She sends an e-mail about a medical issue with the kids, he responds asking a question about how long some treatment will take or if they are feeling better today and she ignores him.

Actually reading that back, perhaps it's not her that is so unreasonable but it's him chasing all the time and she doesn't respond to it.

Of course though, she can send pages of rants for his supposed terrible wrong doings. He'll get a complete character assasination to which he immediately responds to.