One step forward, two steps back

[Petal02]

I think most of the regulars are familiar with my frustration over the strict access rota we adhere to, for DSS who?s 18 in September.

There have recently been some improvements: I can?t put too much detail in case I ?out? myself, but basically DSS finally got himself a weekend job, at an establishment round the corner from where he lives with his mother. He does a few hours on Saturday and Sunday afternoons. Over the summer holidays, he?s been coming to us for a few nights in the week, then DH takes him home on Saturday mornings, so he can then do his Saturday shift, sleep at his mother?s that night, and then be in the right place for his Sunday shift.

If he were using our house as a base whilst working, it?s 20 miles each way ? so DH would drive 20 miles to take him to work, then 20 miles back home again, then 20 miles to collect him and then 20 miles back ? and the same on Sunday ??. It would also mean DH and I couldn?t do anything with our day, as DH would be ferrying DSS around.

Initially DH agreed it wasn?t practical/sensible/economically viable to do all that driving when DSS?s place of work is literally 2 mins from his home. He was also pleased that DSS has finally found a part time job. So to ?compensate? for the lost time, DSS was coming to us for an ?extra? evening meal in the week. However DH realised that one weekday evening equates to less hours than he?s losing at the weekend.

DH wants more weekend time with his son. I pointed out that DSS is now working, which is surely a positive thing. Whilst DH agrees with this to a point, he?s still unhappy with things, and has suggested that DSS goes back to spending EOW at our house (Thurs 4pm to Sunday 6pm) and that DH will spend all Saturday and Sunday afternoons on the road.

I told him this was insane, and that there?s no way we can accommodate this. And it?s not like he actually gets to spend much time with DSS while he?s doing this. I think DH realised I was about to explode, and back pedalled a little, and said he?d try and find a solution for the coming weekend that works for everyone ? well DSS arrives at 4pm today, and I really don?t know what would constitute a sensible compromise. I think DH knows this too, but wanted to buy himself some time.

Any thoughts? I just don?t know how to ?refund? DH with the contact time he loses whilst DSS is working, and I don?t think this should be necessary given DSS?s age?

At the moment I feel like the bad guy, the dynamics between DH and DSS are more like two lovers than father and son ? DH will drive literally miles to snatch a few hours with DSS between shifts.

This all seems a bit i can understand your frustration as it is impractical. I am guessing your DSS is at school during the week, ordinarily.

One thought, which may be a longer term solution, but depends on your finances, is, as your DSS is 17, why doesn't his Dad teach him to drive, supplemented with some driving lessons. That way they can practically use the time when your DSS is being ferried backwards and forwards. Then when he passes his test, buy him a cheap car. (18th birthday present perhaps - but only once test is passed - as an incentive - so that your DH is still not ferrying him around.

That way your DSS can then drive himself over after work (and pay for petrol). And i hate to say this, but then your DH will see exactly how much effort DSS makes to see his father after work / weekends.

That way you get to appear like the positive one in suggesting driving lessons and a car and your DH can see how much he is actually appreciated by his DS and if the D(S)S takes responsibility for paying for petrol to see his dad.

It's just a joke petal - he is 18 ffs.

Cost of driving him about in petrol and running costs is prob more than he is earning - what's wrong with the bus?

petal Until your DP realises that contact is not for his benefit then this will continue

I can't imagine what you can possible have in common with your DP - how on earth do you relate to someone who is so dependent on their nearly-adult DS to live a fulfilling life. Most parents of DC's your DSS age are delighted that they have more time to themselves - often, couples rediscover each other, spend a lazy afternoon in bed, enjoy time together sharing hobbies or similar - not mourning the loss of time with their children

I don't know what to suggest, it is bonkers, and really not going to get better. How often does your DP see his own parents? Do they insist on regular contact, to a set schedule?

I know it's easy to think that this will get better once he goes away to Uni, but don't bet on it - my exSIL worked abroad for a year at 18 years old, then came back, moved back in with her parents, eventually moved out to the flat down the road that they bought for her and she still goes on holiday & weekends away with them and has a regular "contact" routine several evenings/days a week -and she's in her 40's now!!!!

NADM,

DH and DSS have a very complicated relationship ? my friends think there?s a lot of guilt in DH?s (non) parenting style and as he?s lost touch with his daughter (very long story) he seems to cling to DSS almost in desperation. I think Redhen also has a problem with her DP being clingy towards his children, so I wonder if its common amongst non-resident fathers?

As regards what DH and I have in common ? he?s just as protective of ?our? time as he is ?contact? time, DSS is never allowed to visit on an ?adult? weekend, but DH doesn?t want to lose a minute of his DSS time either. I?d rather things were more relaxed, but as you can see, they?re not.

As regards what DH and I have in common ? he?s just as protective of ?our? time as he is ?contact? time, DSS is never allowed to visit on an ?adult? weekend, but DH doesn?t want to lose a minute of his DSS time either.

Goodness - so what would happen if you planned something for just you (not involving him) on one of his weekends with you?
It all sounds very claustrophobic!

MY DP is also a NRP - and lost contact with his DD. I can understand the motivation, and how hard it is, but counselling and professional support has helped both DP and I see how important it is that he remains a parent, and overcome the fear of rejection that DP will naturally feel.

Have you and your DH tried counselling at any point - either together, or separately?

Blimey Petal that is just insane!!!
It can't be healthy for his son having his Dad cling to him like this. He should be getting independent and moving forward with his own life now. The car idea is good if you can afford it - might encourage him to spread his wings a bit.
My DP is similarly clingy to his dc (and I know what you mean about them seeming more like 'lovers' rather than a healthy father/child relationship).

I sympathise so much but don't honestly know what the answer is. I just hope to God I am not in your situation in 10 years time

Its not a sensible way to act, its really not. You know it. Your DH knows it deep down too.

I wonder if something could be done with the days he visits during the week instead as a compromise. If not 20 miles each way 4 x a weekend is £160. That could pay for driving lessons as someone said above and even help towards saving for a car.

I feel your frustation though. Rotas for 18 year olds should never be this much hassle.

Hang on, ignore my dodgy maths! I meant is 160 miles a weekend and the petrol used to do that could be put towards driving lessons. Durrrrr.

NADM,

I probably didn?t explain myself very well when I said that DH is very protective of ?our? time together ? if I make arrangements with girlfriends etc on one of ?our? weekends he?s fine about it, likewise if he wants to play sport etc that?s fine too.

What I meant was ?our ? weekends are always strictly childfree, just as DSS?s weekends are equally strict, ie they can?t be shortened, which is why we?re having this latest issue.

But I agree totally that most parents of teenagers relish the fact they?re having more time to themselves, whereas DH seems to be torn between being pleased that DSS is finally being a bit more mature, but is still unhappy about having less weekend time. It?s such a weird dynamic.

How does DSS feel about it? Is he going along with coming to you this weekend because he doesn't want to upset his Dad/Mum - or is he as dependant on his Dad, and was he upset at the thought of not seeing him at weekends once he got the job?

NADM, interestingly DSS has been quite laid back about it all. He obviously must have realised that working weekends would impact on the time he spends with his Dad, but he still went ahead and took the job. But I would doubt he thought about the practical implications of getting to/from work when he?s with us. However on the weekends when we?ve taken him home on Saturday morning, so that he?s in the right place to attend work, he?s been quite OK about it.

On this occasion, it seems that it?s DH who?s feeling wobbly about it all.

This all sounds a bit mad. I've read your posts before Petal, and it doesn't sound as though the rota issue is getting any better. It must be VERY frustrating for you.

Doesn't your DP realised that it is NORMAL for an 18 year old to be spending less time with his parents? Surely this is growing up? When I was 18 I left home and went to university for 3 years, I only went home maybe once a term, and for some time in the holidays. It seems crazy for an 18 year old to be sticking to a rigid access rota of time with parents. Does your DP think that this is the way it will continue? When DSS is 30, will he be coming to you for access weekends?

At some point, access weekends have to stop, and normal relations between dad and grown up son must start, i.e. grown up son visits/meets up with dad sometimes for a drink, sometimes to go for a meal, sometimes to have a chat, go fishing, whatever. Just as he sometimes meets up with his mum, but gets on with his own life. DSS could be living on his own by now, would DP think he should come to your house every other weekend then?

Sorry Petal, but I think your DP just hasn't realised that he has an adult son, not a child any more.

Does your DP's ex also want to stick to this rigidity? I know I am looking forward to a time when all of the DSs and DSSs in my house come and go on a more flexible basis, and under their own steam. Is your DP afraid that if he lets go of this access rota, DSS just won't come any more?

What 18 year old thinks, when offered a job (hard to come by these days...), "oh I can't take it because I will lose time seeing my dad"? I would have been worried if your DSS had thought that, and not taken the job because of it - that wouldn't be healthy at all would it? Can your DP see that?

If you can't help him see that, and from reading previous posts, I suspect you've tried really hard to get him to see that, then maybe he needs to talk to a professional who can help him through this?

I don't mean to be harsh, but I really am flabbergasted!!!

Surely this is the point where the rota should no longer exist and your DSS and Dh start their adult relationship. This time it sounds like it's your DH that is having difficulty embracing the fact that DSS is growing up where I know in the past your main concern had been DSS's clinginess. I don't suppose any driving lessons are on the cards so DSS can be responsible for getting himself around?

I hate to say it, but you know those men who are still living at home when they're 50 - I can see Petal's DSS doing this.

I see that look of sheer panic when my DP thinks he might lose half an hour with his kids. It's ridiculous and he takes no consolation in seeing his kids for extra at any other times anyway!

Petal, I have no idea what you do with this if your DP won't listen to reason? I suppose like so many of us, you either have to suck it up or give your DP some ultimatums you're prepared to go through with.

You know he's doing his son no favours whatsover, his Mother won't stop it either and you're stuck in the middle being the "bad guy" for talking reason and common sense.

Good grief, poor you.

Your DSS eventually taking the initiative to get a job at the weekends is a definite step forward, but your DH's reaction to this move is so disappointing.

Like others though I struggle to think of what else you could possibly do or say to make him see reason. Especially if he's likely to interpret your suggestions as a bid to see DSS less. But at the same time, getting yourselves into a situation where there are 4 40 mile drives per weekend is just ridiculous. You would probably end up being more tied down on access weekends than you are already. A day trip would be completely impossible, as would visits to/from friends, or actually any normal stuff. Whilst such ferrying around is to be expected for younger children, its just wholly inappropriate for an 18yo.

Is counselling completely out of the question? I think if I was you it would be my next move. All else really has failed?

Why doesn't your dh let the young man (man) grow up? Your dss has FINALLY made a long overdue step. When he's a fully grown adult, if he finds employment in the next city, will your dh still want to take him to school? (sorry, meant work) !!

It's ridiculous. Your dh is BEING ridiculous.

I've followed your threads Petal02. Perhaps dh just doesn't want to have a grown up son.