dss out of hand

[humptydidit]

Long story cut short... I have 3 dc's under 7. DP has 2 dcs, age 15 and 11 who live with him full time.

I have just moved house last week so that dp and I only live 5 mins apart. All going fine except that dss, age 11 seems to spend his whole life at my house now... Also fine, except that dss is basically a bully likes his own way.

He won't allow my kids to choose the channel on the tv, he plays on our wii but refuses to play multi player game, he is in charge of deciding who does what and when.

He isn't a bad kid but he is extremely immature and shows little regard for other kids including his own sister. He will tease mercilessly but if anyone says anything to him in return he cries. He winds up the others especially my dd but if she says anything to him then he cries and runs to dp.

Yesterday dsd was laid on the sofa watching tv and dss ran in and jumped on her legs and crushed them. She shouted at him and he stood and argued with her that it was her fault until she got up and kicked him, then he lay on the floor and howled for his dad for ages.

I know alot of this is just sibling rivalry and my kids argue plenty but they also seem to be able to rub along together and they also can understand the concept of sharing and that they wouldn't like to be on the recieving end of it sometimes iyswim.

Dp is just lovely but somewhat of a gentle giant. He has been on his own with his kids for 6 years and they know exactly how to play him. Dsc's are masters of the emotional blackmail and sulking till they get their own way. If dss is annoying one of the others, dp just tells them to ignore him, until dss goes too far and then he loses his temper with him but it doesn't seem to make any difference because then dss will sulk and cry until dp feels sorry for him .

Last night I spoke to dp and I told him that dss had gone too far and both the boys were winding up my dd and it had to stop. We also agreed that dss should not come round today and my kids could have a day relaxiing in their own home. I was dreading speaking to dp so I'm really happy that he wasn't offended by it but will that help? dp told dss he can't visit today because we are out all day instead of facing the real issue which is that dss is becoming a bully.

Any advice please???

Could you and your DP draw up some ground rules for all the children, which would address DSS's main issues, such as taking turns at things, no hurting each other etc. You don't have to tell DSS its aimed at him, just that as you are all living so much closer now you feel the need to have some rules to make it more pleasant for all of you.

Sit all the children down and explain what the rules are, and what the consequences would be of breaking those rules, and stick to it. For example, they all have to share playing the Wii, if anyone can't share they don't play. I know that sounds a bit Supernanny, but it sounds like he has been getting away with it for far too long, and its not fair on anyone!

notinmylife you're definately right. dss and dsd don't play together at all, so dss sesms to have missed out on the standard sibling rivalry and also the standard learning to get along together. The way I put it to dp was that dss and my ds1 were both going too far winding up dd. I also pointed out that if dss wanted to play single player games on the wii, he is welcome to go 5 mins up the road and play on his wii!!!

I kind of put it that before when we were only visiting eachothers houses that dsc's were treated more like guests and had more leeway but now we are on the doorstep that couldn't contine because it's not fair.

dp agreed with me but it's putting it into practice that will be the proof of the pudding!!!

I can see how the DSC's have got used to being "guests" and as you say, that needs to change now you are so much closer, or there will end up being a lot of bad feeling caused. Hopefully if you and DP can present a united front it won't take long for DSS to get the idea. Good luck!

hopefully, I was naive to think it would be easy once we moved to spend more time together as a family... I never thought for a second about any of the day to day reality of it I guess!!!

Don't forget it is at its worst now because of the holidays. It will be easier once they are all back at school and not around as much. You just have to survive the next 5 weeks or so!

Humpty I wish I had done what you have done and not moved in lock stock and barrel so soon.
You are in an ideal position. You can implement the "my house my rules" situation! If you tell DSS off when he is misbehaving in your house your DP should back you up and implement the same rules in his house. It is the perfect trial run for when you do eventually live together and when you do at least the dc will all know the rules.
I have similar problems with my DSS in that he can't handle the natural sibling banter that my sons have with each other. My two will call each other the stupidest names and bicker non stop but when they include DSS in this he cries. Its not his fault, he doesn't have a brother, just a little sister so he doesn't get the dynamics that brothers have. I have had to tell my two to watch the insults in front of DSS as he is more sensitive and doesn't appreciate being called a bogey eating gremlin

lol at the bogey eating gremlin. The insult of choice in this house is "cockroach fart"!!!

Moving closer and spending more time together doing day to day mundane stuff has really helped me to see what the reality of living together would be like.

I have been thinking this morning tho and now I realise that I have to put my kids first and establish the ground rules for how this is all going to work. Dp has hurt his back and his kids are so lazy and seem to make more mess for him when he is ill. Last week I tried to help him out by popping round and tidying up for him ready when he came home from work, but now I see that although I had good intentions, actually, I was only feeding their laziness.

A friend told me that she thought I would do much better to make dp feel a million dollars and see how special he is to me rather than nagging him to change. I hope that seeing what he could have and by me being myself, he will pull his kids into line himself. I really dont want a big confrontation over it all because I know that he will defend them to the last (as he should) but I would rather him come to my way of thinking than try to change him. Does that make sense? Then if dsc's are vile to me then I back off and just not entertain it. It seems that if you engage in their games then it makes them worse. Is there any sense in that at all? Honestly I have no idea anymore. It just seems so wrong that the kids should rule the roost like that. they need parenting and

I think you need to tell your DP what your expectations are from the off.
Implement the rules you want to in your house and hope that he follows suit.

If he doesn't then let him deal with the consequences of that!
I have given up nagging. It doesn't work. If DP goes all Disney then I walk away. He knows he is doing it and it's just lazy parenting on his part so when his dc are horrible and spoilt that's his problem to deal with!
It's all new at the moment and I'm sure things will settle down in time!
Remember the holidays are a difficult time for everyone!!!

I really dont want a big confrontation over it all because I know that he will defend them to the last (as he should) but I would rather him come to my way of thinking than try to change him. Does that make sense?

He'll only defend the DC's if he thinks that they are being attacked - so don't make it about the DC's, make it about HIM. He is the one who is ignoring his DS behaviour towards your DC's - tiptoing around him and lying in order to "spare his feelings".

A parent committed to teaching the DS would explain that the consequence of thoughtless and selfish behaviour is that DS no longer has the privilege of spending time at your house, and until he can demonstrate to his Dad that he can be trusted. A parent would explain that DS is no longer allowed to spend time at your house without his Dad there to supervise. If Dad is busy, or laid up, so can't come to yours - tough - DS has to entertain himself at home.

Your DP is failing to parent his DS; and I think that the message you are trying to get across to your DP is how that makes you feel. His DC's poor behaviour is merely a consequence of your DP's lack of parenting.

notadisney you are so right. It's not the kids ultimately who have a problem, they are a product of dp's upbringing.
I think that we will have to sit down and discuss all of this properly. Does anybody have any experience of this type of conversation? Should I just be blunt? I find it difficult to express what I want to say without making it personal and insulting... but wait... if you aren't parenting yr kids properly then that is going to be personal and insulting I guess.

Dp will have to man up and face the situation. I am happy to support but ultimately it has to come from him doesn't it?

When I start worrying about this then I wonder if there's any point in it at all? If dp can't see what his disney parenting is doing on his own, will he be able to change it just because I point it out to him???? Which comes back to what my friend was trying to say, that it would be better to back off when his kids play up so that he see's clearly that his kids behaviour is putting me off. Kind of "I love spending time with you, dp, but I can't deal with this other shit"

Or is that all too airy fairy and the direct approach is better???

Does anybody have any experience of this type of conversation? Should I just be blunt? I find it difficult to express what I want to say without making it personal and insulting... but wait... if you aren't parenting yr kids properly then that is going to be personal and insulting I guess.

There is a technique in the Putting Children First book that seems to work really well in situations of potential conflict:
When you do X, I feel Y, because . I would like....

X is always an emotion - angry, frustrated, disrespected, frightened etc etc. The important thing is not to blame the other person for your feelings. You chose to feel the way you do, and ultimately, you can chose to feel differently if nothing else changes, but you are asking the other person for help.

So, I used this with my ex, when he was trying to change my mind about a house rule I had put in place for DD.

When you make suggestions about how I could conduct my family life in my home, I feel judged, because it is an invasion of my privacy. I would like you to accept the decisions I have made, as it will assist communication between us

In your case, you could say something along the lines of:

When you told DSS that he couldn't visit today because we were going out, I felt undermined, because you didn't address the concerns I have raised about his behaviour. I would like us to agree a way of parenting all the DC's together that we can both stick to.

Ultimately, it comes down to whether you share, or can compromise, on parenting values - but the only way to find that out is to talk about it!

Today's development....

SD has been absolutelly vile today and bit my dd, sd is 15 and dd is 7. DD was annoying sd, but there is absolutely no excuse for her to get bitten.

Dp and I don't live together, but we are 5 mins away. I left his house straight away and told my kids straight that I won't have anybody hurting them.

I have just got off the phone to dp and have had a long chat with him basically telling him that until his kids sort themselves out them I am backing off and keeping my kids away. And also that if I'm staying away from his kids, then they stay away from me and my house. I told dp that I loved him very much, which I do, but that I can't go on like this and if ss and sd can't handle our relationship then I will take it away from them iyswim? I mean I will see dp without any of the kids around.

Dp was very upset and says he doesn't want to lose me. I said that I don't see what else to do. I told him that I am simply not engaging with them if they want to be bullies and to play silly games. Dp says that it makes it look like the kids have won then and they have split us up. I said that I dont see it that way, but that they are welcome to be involved when they are ready to be pleasant and basically wind their necks in!!!

Dp says he doesn't want this and that he sees that there are 2 choices... to call it quits or speak to them and make them understand that they aren't being pushed out etc and that their behaviour is unacceptable.

I hope that by taking this approach that dp will man up and quit the disney dad act and rein them in.

I hope that he sees I am serious and will pull them into line and from now on I am keeping a very close eye on ss and sd and not tolerating any of their shit towards my kids.

Am having a serious wobble now... did I do the right thing? Dp said that he always put kids first and maybe that's why they turned out the way they did????? I argued that doesn't he have the right to be happy too??? and pointed out the benefits of our relationship for everybody.... Did I play it right? What should I do now? Back right off or what? I told him straight that I didn't want to lose him, but that if we don't sort this now, then it will all blow up in the future and could ruin our relationship. I hope he understood that I don't want to walk away, but I am serious that things can't continue.

Hand holding please!!!

To be honest if it were me I would walk away, clearly these children are poorly raised and have been taught no basic respect, manners or normal every day interaction.

I think that they will continue to get worse till they get what they want and if their dad can not parent them and wants to be a disney dad then you have no chance, a 15 year old should not be biting children, he might want to get a CHAMS appointment as she clearly has issues

rabid I fear that you might be right, but I don't want to give up without giving dp the chance to sort things out with his kids

kaluki thank you

Am serioulsy wondering if I have done the right thing by getting my kids involved with dp when this is how it's all going to end????

I think that I have been fair to dp. I didn't lose my temper I just feel so down right now. That's exactly what I said to dp that he would do the same thing in my shoes, I mean if somebody was biting his kids, he would have to protect them and he saw that.

I hope in some wierd way that dp will see clearly that if he doesn't shape up then it's over and that the ball is firmly in his court now.

But what should I do now? Not see dp at all or just insist on seeing dp with no kids around ie, go out alone, the 2 of us or he can pop by when my kids are in bed??? Or should I just leave him to stew on it. I don't want to play games and mess him about but he has to see that I am serious

He isnt putting them first, he is going for the easy life, part of putting them first is managing their behaviour.

I mean a 15 year old biting a 7 year old!!

Do what feels right to you, if you are happy to see him alone do.

whattocallmyself you are totally right. This is disney dad through and through.

I have hardly slept and feel like crap now but am going to wait for him to make the first move, although I am desparate to know if i'm just wasting my time . I just moved house and my kids etc to be closer to him and now this happens... not good unless he seriously changes something.

The biting thing I have been dwelling on all night. Tbh, dsd is very immature and I forget that she is so much older but when you look at the bare facts, how can a 15 year old biting a 7 year old be acceptable in anybody's book??? I thought dsd was responsible enough to watch dd for me for half an hour while I popped to the shops, well clearly I was wrong. I am totally disgusted with her and I have to stand my ground.

What a mess

Sadly though if for the last 15 and 11 years they have been allowed to behave badly there is no changing that now Please do not put yourself and your children through it.

This may sound harsh and I really dont mean to but your relationship with him is not important now.
You must stick up for your dd and keep her away from these kids until he realises how serious this is. You do see that this is assault don't you - he needs to see this too and your dd needs to know that you have got her back!
The ball is in his court and whether you see him or not is up to you but personally I couldn't be with someone who didn't discipline his child for biting mine.
I'm so sorry you are going through this but at least you aren't living together!

dp called round this morning, alone. We had a chat. I laid it on the line for him... My kids come first, nobody hurts them. Your kids are welcome to visit my house, but when they are here, they follow my rules. If they can't follow my rules, they leave straight away.

Dp has already told dsc's that they are both out of order especially sd. He has told them that I am so disgusted that I will not be going to their house and that they are not welcome here at the moment.... Some amount of progress, but seemingly not actual punishment??? But it is a start at least. In the mean time, I will start with my house, my rules and maybe they will realise that they want to mess dp about then that's his problem, but they don't mess with me or my kids???

Just trying to think up some rules to write out and pin on the wall... Any suggestions how to phrase it?
Something like
Share
Be kind to eachother
REspect peoples privacy

and the more tricky one... If I tell you off, don't answer back... but phrased better, maybe no answering back???

Help!!!

kaluki, thinking about what you said, think I will ask dp what is the consequence for sd's behaviour yesterday from him....

what a mess

It's good he has told them you are disgusted but isn't he ashamed and disgusted too? She should have consequences or she won't change!
I think this should be the wake up call he needs!
Regarding the list - draw it up and be clear that it is subject to change. Things can be added and deleted as necessary.
If they can learn to follow rules in your house they will know what to expect when (if?) they live with you!
Good luck

So he told them you were upset with them, boo bloody hoo, he needs to discipline them not let them get away with every thing.

His children are beyond control and clearly not quite right, I think you are just going to cause yourself pain if you try to have any sort of relationship with them