Minefield of wills

[zookeper]

Need an unbiased perspective, have been putting off doing wills as will be like opening a can of worms. Dh has 3 teenage children, i have two and married for one year. I am thinking along the lines of anything accrued before the marriage goes to our own respective biological children, anything after is split 5 ways after we are both gone. Any opinions?

I think that's fair. you'll need a good solicitor to make sure it's all set down perfectly.

Very difficult. My mum was in exactly your situation, i.e. two children of her own (me being one of them), step-dad has three. They have been married now for many years so the issue has ceased to be one of how to divide the assets (everything goes five ways) and more to make sure no funny business can go on where my mum changes her will after my step-dad dies in order to disinherit his children (obv she wouldn't do that but why not have it nailed down, is their view).

What level of asset did you each bring to the marriage? Personally I would split it all five ways and then revise that if for any reason the marriage didn't work out, rather than put in place something which could look pretty arcane in twenty years' time.

OH and I are in a similar situation. We both have 2 children each from previous relationships and will not be having any more together. We havent moved in together yet but at the moment we are thinking it will work like this - OH has a life insurance policy which would pay out to his kids, his pension, death in service and any property would come to me. I will get a life insurance, my pension and death in service will go to my kids, OH will keep property.

That is just our initial thoughts at the moment (we dont even own any property as yet!) it could obviously be adapted and altered as the kids get older or circumstances change.

Thank you Hecat and tripot. We both brought similar levels of assets to the marriage but i am a sahm and the probability is that dh will accrue substantial assets in the years to come as his business is now doing well. (He was wiped out by exw and married me with nothing). He does have incredibly large sums of life insurance for his children which of course I would expect to stay in place. Tribpot out of interest did your mother contribute to her and your step dad's assets?

I suppose you can only make a will looking at the here & now, and revise it jointly if the situation changes for any reason.

Have been wondering about similar things - similar set up in that both have DCs but none joint, though DP has considerably more assets than me so splitting all equally would disadvantage his kids. Wondered about something like you were proposing (assets before marriage going to own DC, those after being split) but can't quite see how you could distinguish which were which - what if you actually had less assets when you died? You might, for instance, have given money to some (but not all) of the children to help them buy houses, or have used some up paying for care. How would you work out whether that was "personal" cash you were using up or "joint"?

Didn't get very far with the thoughts though (we're not actually married yet) short of thinking that I would want to remain in the home until the kids had grown up, but beyond that, as the higher earner it is really up to my DP if he wants to split things with me and mine. But if you're being a SAHM then that's a bit different I think - unless he actually splits his salary with you each month as payback for housekeeping - as you're otherwise supporting him earning more money at the expense of doing so yourself.

My other thought was that it's best to mention as little as possible to the kids about inheritance for now so that they don't build up any kind of expectations - I flipantly tell mine I'll spend it all on jetting round the world in my retirement if they ask.

Yes, I think you're right - a will needs to cover you for if one of you drops down dead unexpectedly in the next few years - you can revise it in the future if your assets or circumstance change.

I know not everyone will agree but I think there should be some weight given to what the children on both sides stand to inherit from the other side of their family.

Step children with a wealthy parent on the other side could stand to inherit quite a bit while the children of the new family may not obviously have that advantage.

zookeeper - other than an initial stake in a house she owned, my mum has never contributed financially. In further spooky similarities, my step-dad was also pretty wiped out by his ex-wife, and we were in the bizarre (although entirely understandable) situation where he was paying twice as much per child in maintenance as my dad was paying for me and my bro (when my dad remembered to pay that is). They wanted to be scrupulously fair and my step-dad is a feminist who has never underestimated the value of the contribution of the stay-at-home-parent. I don't think they would have had life insurance policies that paid out for some children and not others - although I appreciate these were in existence before you married.

I think whatever you decide it's important to be very matter-of-fact about it and agree openly what you want in the event of one of you dying, or both of you dying. My DH's family are setting themselves up for World War 3 when my step-father-in-law dies as he appears to have disinherited either his own children or his wife (my MIL) of the half of the house he owns (we own the other half) and I think the vague expectation is that we will somehow 'make this good' in the future. In reality, with no earning potential of his own now that he is chronically ill, my DH cannot afford to be handing assets over to his family when it turns out the 'agreement' of his step-siblings to only inherit from their own mother never actually took place.

My DH has suggested that we effectively keep whatever we brought. We have joint children now, and they will get the majority if my estate (DH will have a lifetime interest in the physical house, but 'our' kids will own it) I will be leaving a gift to DSD, but she stands to inherit a lot from the other family, which mine obviously won't benefit from, so in this case assets will flow down the maternal lines.

Also I don't want any danger of losing my/DHs home if anything should happen to us.

theredhen - interesting cross-post. That's sort of the argument behind the mess in my DH's family - the step-sibs will inherit from their mother, so it's alright not to from their father. Personally I think this could well backfire. What if the mother decides to leave all her dosh to the Cats' Protection League? I would focus only on parity in the sharing out of one's own assets and let the chips fall where they fall with regards to other inheritances. But I think the OP would do well to consider as you suggest.

Like so many other things within step parenting there is not a one answer for all and different things will suit different families.

I also realise that you can't control what the other parent does or doesn't do, which makes things even more difficult.

I work in the Wills and Probate department of a solicitors. Most people in second marriages decide to sever the joint tenancy in respect of their property so that they hold it as tenants in common rather than joint tenants. In a joint tenancy the property passes to the survivor automatically but in a tenancy in common it passes under the Will.

Then the respective parties draft a Will which effectively leaves their half of the property to their own children. To be honest it's mainly women who think about this issue as men a) don't tend to bother about these things and b) women worry about their husband remarrying and everything then going to the new wife and/or the children of their husband, leaving their own children with no benefit whatsoever.

Just some things to think about but just as an example, if you died first and the house passed automatically to your husband he could then change his Will leaving everything to his own children and nothing to yours. I have seen this happen time and time again and even more often when the woman is the surviving spouse. She then cuts off her husband's children in her own Will.

Your husband could also remarry, which would automatically revoke any existing Will he has got, again cutting out your children.

I would go and see a solicitor. The firm I work for only charges £120.00 plus VAT for mirror Wills and £75.00 plus VAT to sever a joint tenancy so depending on where you live (London solicitors charge loads more) it isn't that expensive either and would give you some peace of mind.

Hope this helps a little bit.

DH has two children , and we have one .

DH death in service and pension is split between the three children . My death in service and pension goes to our daughter . We both took out life insurance that goes to each other . The house goes to each other . If he dies , I get the house , which in the end will go to our child . We saw it as his first children .(16 & 18) would have had their dad , home and benefit of his cash for their youth, while our DD (7m) would not have . If I die, obviously the house goes to him, and then to all kids he has.

If we both die , all his assets , and joint assets go to all three children . All my assets to our child . Our joint assets are split 50/50 and 50 goes to his kids, and 50 to our child (his first children have another parent to inherit from , don't have a childhood to pay for , and we both put in equally , so its fair its split equally between our inheritance lines).

If DH , DD and I die, my assets and her share go to my family.

Becky36 thankyou for your advice, i have every intention of going down the tennants in common route. Red Hen, my 3 scs will inherit millions from both their mother and grandparents. We know this is the case as has been confirmed by all in question. This on top of all my dh's life insurance.
But when it comes to our will, dh says that any outside inheritance is of no consequense and should have no sway on how we divide our assets, he sees it as his job to provide for his dc's. I am not saying this is unjust.

Purpleroses dh & i agree that whatever we have after our marriage is joint. Although i am a sahm, i cannot say that i make a lage contribution to him as only 1 ss lives with us and is 15yrs and we have help at home. Also, i suppose if you have less assets when you die then that is a chance you have to take in any family- but i admit it's so complicated.

The thing is though, we agreed to treat all our children equally throughout our marriage. Should this change in death?

I know this will not really add in any way to the post, but two of my scs refuse to accept my presence in their father's life, despite me meeting my dh long after their parent's divorce. For this reason alone whatever is decided re wills will have to be carefully drafted. Despite my efforts they act as if i don't exist. They have no loyalty whatsoever to my dh, one has changed his surname to his step dad's and only contacts dh when he needs money. I know they are his children and blood is thicker.. but i just cannot help feeling resentful of the absolute priority that he affords his children in every way over mine.

The way things are going.....there might not be much left to leave.

Dh has 3. I have 1. When we both go, it's divided between the four of them. Provided, as home owners, IF we've paid off the mortgage by then, we don't have to take out a loan to pay for elderly care packages!

Eliza am wondering why you would dilute your child's inheritence by giving a share of it to your stepkids? Am not saying this is wrong in the slightest, just curious as to different opinions.

Good question ZOOKEEPER and one I've given a little more thought to, over the last 12 months seeing how youngest sd, at 18, hasn't seen her dad (or us) in all that time, because she was told not to have strangers sleeping in our bed, while we were away for the weekend (!!).

Thing is, I had very little left on the sale of my former marrital home. I took a big drop when selling as a) the housing market was crap and b) idmhad a sale get to near completion, then the buyers pulled out at the last minute. So, I then put my "pot" into paying off what was a quarter of partner's mortgage. As it happened, it was one quarter of the house price so, I guess you could say, on our deaths.....MY son gets his "quarter" back again, as it's divided four ways.

However, if my son (God forbid) should die before me...... The property would then split 3 ways. I NOW, STRONGLY OBJECT TO THIS seeing how my youngest sd has always resented me (I get on well with his other two kids.....especially his eldest daughter, who I adore) and I can't ever see she and I having any kind of friendship even. So, yes, should it need to be split only 3 ways, I'd not like that one bit.

That makes me sound dreadful, I'm NOT! But, I don't wish to see youngest sd profit from my death, when she refuses to speak to me in life. IYSWIM

If we both die , joint assets are split 50/50, and 50% goes down DH line , and 50% down my line .

Eliza how you feel is entirely understandable! Whilst i am close to my youngesd sd, my 2 eldest ss have never accepted me, so it would be refreshing to think they would not accept anything upon my death.. though of course that is wishful thinking!

ArcticRain i think you have reached the fairest solution in your circumstance

So.... How do you deal with this, zookeeper? What I cannot say is, if ds dies before me but then their dad and I die, I would prefer ds's quarter to go to my neices and nephew.

It's a dilemma because I'm very very sure now, which I wasn't when dh and I drew up the will 3 years ago, that I DO NOT WANT ANYTHING OF MINE to go to this young woman. My ds is disabled so, whilst its not it's impossible, he may not marry or have kids. Therefore, his inheritance would "die" with him.

Eliza yes i think it is reasonable to tell your husband that you want your money to go to those who wish to have a relationsip with you, and whether or not your ds does end up having kids or not is imaterial. My situation is slightly more complicated as although i have no relationship with 2 ss's, i am not the one who is providing the bulk of the inheritance so can hardly say who gets & who doesn't. The thing about wills is that they can always be rewritten/modified, and what was right 3 yrs ago may not be right now.

Thanks zookeeper.

I was thinking I was being unreasonable. But I've tried hard with this girl and she detests me.

eliza - I'm in a similar position with DSD at the moment!

DP and I have written wills (and all sorts of other legal documents) that has secured the arrangement we are both happy with.

I moved into DP's house, but we are now contributing equally to the cost, so we have arranged it so that if he dies first, I get to stay in the house for as long as I want to (or downsize if I want to), but when I die, the house is then split between DP's two DC's and my DD.

There is a small risk that if I die first, then DP could then cut DD out of his will and leave everything to his DC's, but at the moment, my assets are minimal, so she won't be losing a lot, really! We will revisit the arrangement as the equity in the house increases.

Interesting. I have one SDC and DD. Our only asset is our home but I own that solely - partly due to DH's appalling credit rating and partly because the house was funded with a massive gift from my family and without my salary we would never have got a mortgage.

DH's will leaves everything of his to me, then his children jointly. My will gives DH a life interest in the home but creates a trust of which DH and our children are beneficiaries.

But I think it would be different if we both had children who weren't also the other's children.