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When he says he can see I have little choice....

11 replies

theredhen · 11/06/2012 11:09

... but to leave.

He knows I can't cope with the situation, the constant everyday intrusion into our lives by his ex that, in my opinion, he allows. He doesn't think there is anything he can do to make the situation better for me, it's just the way it is. He says maybe I should go now rather than "delay the inevitable".

We've started having counselling but have to wait so long between appointments partly due to work but also down to his contact arrangements with his kids.

Why can't he see that any future of OURS is in HIS hands and he has choices but the only decisions he makes are ones that he thinks will appease his ex.

Is he ever going to see it, even with counselling?

OP posts:
Kaluki · 11/06/2012 11:45

Sad Redhen.
He sounds like he feels defeated by the whole situation.

Silly man. I do have some sympathy for him but the answer is in his own hands and only he can prevent 'the inevitable' from happening.
His ex and his DC are going to ruin his life if he lets them but they shouldn't be allowed to ruin yours too.
So so frustrating for you x

theredhen · 11/06/2012 12:45

I've pretty much lost all respect for him, I think. Admittedly I'm having a bad day but even on good days, I look at him and see a weak man. Sad

He recently told me that he plans on never disciplining 1 out of 4 of his children again because of his ex wifes behaviour. He argued with me about it, telling me that he has no choice, which I think is ridiculous and will create no end of new problems and issues, which inevitably will affect me and my DS.

I avoid talking to him about it all because he never sees my point of view, simply tells me he has no choice, no rights and he is grateful for "seeing his kids". He talks as if he has 2 hours in a contact centre once a month not a man who shares his home with his kids a third of the time.

The counsellor has already told him that sometimes you have to let people go to get them to come back to you, a concept that he didn't understand at all with regards to his kids.

He is jealous of mine and DS relationship because he has nothing even close with any of his kids, but he chooses to learn nothing from observing DS and I.

I honestly think he thinks I am weak and emotional and that someone else would be "stronger" than me because I get upset and try and communicate with him. He wants someone who will "put up and shut up" and that's just not me.

OP posts:
Kaluki · 11/06/2012 12:52

I'm so with you on the respect thing. My respect for DP flies out the window when he is with his dc - I see him as weak and pathetic and childlike himself.
How can he really not discipline his dc ever again? That is crazy talk. Surely he can see that the dc will just get worse and worse when they realise this and walk all over you both. That is no life for either of you, or your DS.
My DP is very similar. He shrugs and says he has no control over them as his ex doesn't back him up / he doesn't want to lose the dc / doesn't like upsetting them etc etc and I have had to really kick his arse so hard and threaten to walk away (which I will do - however much I love him) Thankfully he does see that he has to discipline them - its just actually doing it that is the problem Sad

theredhen · 11/06/2012 13:24

But they do have choices don't they?

They can choose to discipline or not discipline. There may be consequences from his ex but ultimately whatever he does, she will kick up a fuss and cause all sorts of problems anyway, so why can't these men do what is right by their kids?

I really wonder if my DP thinks he has no choice or is that just what he says to me to justify his terrible and ultimately selfish decision making?

OP posts:
catsmother · 11/06/2012 14:24

It must be so dreadfully hurtful to hear him speak like that ..... as if you and your relationship isn't worth making an effort for.

Of course he has choices. There isn't a gun at his head .... well, maybe not a literal gun, but metaphorically speaking he's convinced himself that if he "upsets" his kids (and/or his ex) he risks losing contact with them. My DP is similar so I do know how you feel .... though he doesn't claim to have "no choice", rather he pretends not to notice bad behaviour (didn't see it, can't discipline it), or downplays whatever it is, and/or makes ridiculous intelligence-insulting excuses like the precious ones are stressed/ill/tired etc. Anything to avoid even the mildest form of confrontation such as a reasonable chat pointing out the error of their ways, let alone heaven forbid a full on telling off or punishment. Personally I feel that if his (teenage) kids are so fickle and shallow that a mild reprimand would have them stomp off in a huff then that says a great deal more about them than it does him and TBH who'd want the company of such spoilt brats ? (... at this point a thunderbolt descends on my head). However .... these men seem to be utterly rendered paralysed by the thought of losing contact (in reality, it'd probably be temporary if it happened at all, because right now, his kids are at an age where DP and his family a quite a convenient source of "stuff", money, presents, activities and so on) that I believe they just don't want to face up to the truth of it all .... both what their kids are really like (rude, spoilt, manipulative, thoughtless) and indeed, their part responsibility for how they've ended up (because that would be an embarrassment and guilt inducing). So .... it's far far easier to concoct this fantasy world where everything's apparently "fine" and where anyone who dares to disagree is shot down in flames.

Which would all be very well if these men were single .... rod for their own back and all that. But personally, I find it appallingly selfish and arrogant of them to inflict all the repercussions of this style of "parenting" (ha ha) on other people - most usually of course their partners and any other children in the household.

Your DP is totally wrong by calling you weak. Talk about projection! A weak, meek person would indeed put up with it all. Those of us who protest - which isn't often easy because you just know that even with the most careful tact, the most considered phrases and careful choice of words, a horrid row will usually ensue - are actually strong, because we don't like watching injustice in our own homes and speak up about it. In all honesty, if it were possible for me to do so I'd be off and in a strange way, and I hope I don't offend you, I actually envy your position because, if I remember correctly, you have another property which you could eventually leave to go to. In your shoes Redhen - and I think your situation is far worse than mine, not least because of numbers - I'd cut my losses and start making concrete plans to go. You've given this man so many opportunities to put things right and it sounds like he has absolutely no intention of ever doing so. The declared non-discipline approach is just crazy and will only make things even worse. It may be "just" one of them now, but I can't see that the remaining kids would accept their sibling getting different treatment and I predict that in the near future, before you know it, he'll have decided - for some loony and selfish reason - that he won't be disciplining any of them. Which is crazy and so so disrespectful to you if the skids' bad behaviour is affecting you and your son as it sends them a message that they can treat you and your home however they like. Sorry if I'm speaking out of turn but you only get one life and every day you stay is another one where you're unhappy. Maybe if you left he might finally get his act together ? .... perhaps then and only then he'd realise what he was throwing away and belatedly make an effort to change ? But really, it sounds as if he's made his mind up once and for all and yes, I totally get why you see him as weak. It's totally unedifying for a grown man to be so terribly controlled by children and insulting, as his current partner, to watch him kow-towing to his ex like he does.

witchofmiddx · 11/06/2012 15:00

I agree with catsmother. It does sound as if he has made his decision and will do whatever it takes to "keep" his children at the expense of your relationship. I have unlimited sympathy for you, I have a situation where dh pays practically double the agreed maintainance to ex, as she has in the past sucessfully stopped dsc seeing him at any suggestion of reducing it. Dss who lives with us must never be upset in any way. I deal with this by turning a blind eye to behaviour that does not affect me or my children.

I think if your dh has made his decision then there is no point in further councelling you will only be prolonging the agony. You don't say how old your ds is but you have to believe this is best for him too. However incredibly hard it is, you need to cut your losses here as I agree you only get one life and you deserve and in all likelihood will be in a much better situation with less hostility.

chelen · 12/06/2012 06:47

redhen Sad so sorry it isn't getting better.

Over on the relationships board, some posters say 'when someone tells you who they are, listen'. Your DP is not making any false promises, he is not stringing you along. He is telling you clearly that he will put his kids first. He is saying he won't fight for the relationship and it is 'inevitable' that it will end.

I'm going to be honest, I don't understand why you don't try temporary separation at least, it feels like you are putting yourself through a great deal of pain.

When I read your posts I have this vision of you and your DS having more time for fun if you were based somewhere else.

Sorry if I am being blunt but I have read so many of your posts and I feel frustrated on your behalf!

chelen · 12/06/2012 06:51

Oh, and your DP probably genuinely feels he has no choice, because the other choice is impossible to him. You can see (as can I) he has two choices, but he cannot.

Kaluki · 12/06/2012 08:22

I suppose in his mind if he disciplines his dc he could lose them (chances are he won't but he can't see that) so it comes down to you or his dc - and he can't choose you over his dc so he's stuffed!
The reality is that they have a bond with him, they love him unconditionally. They just don't realise hat yet. So they may kick off for a while and his ex will most probably love it and milk it for all it's worth, and it will be absolute hell for a time BUT they will come back and they will love him and respect him in the long run.
But if I had a pound for every time I have explained this to my DC I would be a millionaire.
Maybe Chelen is right - trial separation might be the answer.

theredhen · 12/06/2012 10:19

He is having contact problems at the moment which are quite significant. So all those years he's been telling me he could lose his kids and I've been frustrated with him because all I ever saw was his ex pushing them onto us when she didn't want them, has come true.

I don't actually think the issues will last long and following mediation things will get back to normal. He can only see the "right now" and if he goes a day without talking to his kids, he gets frustrated.

I'm going to give counselling a shot and have managed to get an earlier appointment than expected for next time Smile but I don't feel overly optimistic about it being a miracle worker but at least if I see someone else not getting through to him, I will feel that it wasn't me who failed to make the relationship work. I think I need to see that, rightly or wrongly. I think I feel I'm incapable of "getting through" to him and if I see someone else failing as well, I will have confirmation that it's not "me".

OP posts:
brdgrl · 14/06/2012 15:01

I'm sorry, redhen.
You are not weak! You have undertaken a huge task and you have worked so hard at it - I know from your posts here how much you have been up against and I think you sound very strong. catsmother is right - DH is projecting if he says you are the weak one - you haven't just 'put up and shut up' - because you know this situation is not right for you or for your child.

I think you are exactly right about the counselling - if nothing else, it will help you remember that it's not you.

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