Maintence advice needed please ?

[droves]

Dh's exw wants maintence for their 17 year old.

The boy left school at 16 , moved 150 miles away and had a job paying about £250 a week . He lived with his aunty and paid her rent/digs .
This lasted for 18 months until his workplace closed down.

Unable to find work , he returned to our hometown and moved back in with his mum.

Now as I understand it , dh is under no obligation to pay maintence for an adult child ( dss will be 18 in 5 weeks) ,who is not working .

Dss is waiting to hear about an apprentiship he's applied for , but isn't working ,or claiming benefits. Exw is claiming benefits for herself and the younger son .

Dss did have a little money saved , which he was giving his mum something towards his keep, but it's ran out and now she's demanding Dh gives her maintence for the oldest.

Dh has had several nasty txt off her , and is now saying she's is going to a lawyer to demand that we have the younger dss more often.

Bearing in mind that dh is paying his ex wife several times the amount suggested by the CSA , and that we have two little children together that dh is financially responsible for . ( my 3 from first marriage have never been included in CSa calculations , as they are provided for by exh and myself) .

What would be the right thing to do here ? I think giving dss a little money directly as an allowance until he starts working or training is one solution.

Dh isn't really in a position that he's able to give her anymore .So if we did have to give her more it would probably have to come from my carers allowance. (dd4 has Sn) .

What should we do ?

Legally I don't think you have to give any money for the nearly 18 year old - certainly not by the time he's 18 which he would be by the time any CSA claim was processed. And she also cannot force you to have the younger one any time at all - any lawyer would tell her that.

But would be nice to offer a bit of money directly to the older one, or maybe pay for something useful in job hunting for him (mobile phone, driving lessons, etc). And would also be nice to offer to have the younger one a bit more unless there's some problem with that.

Once DSS turns 18 he should be able to claim JSA if he's still out of work (Government assumes 17 year olds are supported by parents generally but not from 18 up) - that will be about £60/week so he'll be able to give his mum a bit of money out of that for his keep.

It's all such a mess ... Picking up younger dss and twins from school today ( I drive him to his mums house most days , on the way home ) . He keeps saying he's staying at dads house this weekend . ( it's actually my house , not his dads , dh lives with me ;-) ) ..every day this week Infact .

I've pointed out to him that he's actually coming on "his " special weekend , every 4 weeks ( Friday til Monday) ...and we marked it on the callenders so we could remember to buy his favourite food in , and make sure his dad has the weekend off work ,so they can do fun things together .

I think the ex wife has told dss he's coming this weekend too. It's just confusing the child .

It's not a problem to have him here , but I feel like we are being railroaded off our agreed times .
Given the fact dh is now working long unsociable hours I would be left to cope with dss who has ADHD , dd4 who has asd ,and 4 other children on my own.
And the exw has the cheek to say she's at breaking point !

To clarify things , we often have dss round for days out or to play even if he isn't staying overnight ...just so we can see him .

Bottom line - do you think your husband is doing the right thing by his older children? Is he contributing fairly to their upbringing; and he he spending enough time with them? That's the clincher.

Yes ,I do think he's more than fair to them . He's Intrested in them , proud of them and loves them to bits .He would give the shirt off his back if it ment they could have something they needed.

I wouldn't love him if he wasn't like that.

Oldest dss is very much like dh , honest , decent young lad ...love him to bits. He has conflicting story's with his mum.

Ex said there was no food ...dss said her freezer is full ...she's just been shopping . But she's no fags or money so can't get a takeaway.

do you claim dla for your dd4? you can actually apply for a variation on your maintenance if so, IF it is done through the csa. The trouble is ex seems quite volitile and I assume you will be coming to the end of your payments for the other child soon anyway so it might be better to keep the peace for the childrens sakes

sorry this is a useless message. I just feel sorry for you

Well, I don't think there's anything to be gained from bitterness about the Ex. A fair contribution of money and time & attention is what's needed, and if that is being given then carry on the way you are.

Fio , thanks for the info .. We are actually pay 4 times the amount the CSa say dh should for young dss , and are happy to do so .( also help with other stuff , clothes , holidays , kids clubs , uniforms , shoes ect) . The info will probably be useful to someone else though , as it's not very well known . Thank you .

Just had a chat to dh and we have decided to give money to oldest dss directly ...but in payment for little jobs ..he can feel like he's still " working" that way , rather than getting an allowance. Should help keep his confidence up a wee bit ( or that's the idea anyway )

FIL is about to build a fence , dss can help with that .( we will ask him anyway ...probably won't do much , but at least he'd learn from his grandad how to build a fence ...might come in useful for him in future )

Thank you for the replies ...

The other thing you can do for older children is set them up with a bank account (one high street bank does them for 11-17s, and then they can convert to an an adult account at 18) and pay money directly into the accounts.

Linerunner ...dss had his changed over when he moved for work .
It's an idea though

Sorry, but I have quite strong feelings re this. My daughter left school at 16 (despite my best attempts to get her to stay on) and then found it impossible to get a job in our area for quite some time. The minute she left school my ex stopped paying a penny towards her because he could! I was, and still am, furious re this. I still had to find the money to keep her as she stayed with me. Obviously that's what mums do, but absent parents can get off lightly in this respect!

I understand that you and your husband are trying to help out by giving him money but his mum still has bills to pay, food to buy etc. She doesn't (like I didn't) have the option to say 'oh well, I don't have the money' like absent parents do - she'll have to find it somehow!

I appreciate that you pay more for the youngest than you need to and also contribute to other stuff so maybe remind her of this?

My daughter left school at 16 (despite my best attempts to get her to stay on) and then found it impossible to get a job in our area for quite some time. The minute she left school my ex stopped paying a penny towards her because he could! I was, and still am, furious re this. I still had to find the money to keep her as she stayed with me. Obviously that's what mums do, but absent parents can get off lightly in this respect!

Actually, I know a lot of mums (and Dads) who don't or can't do this - they have to face the stark reality that for legal purposes, at 18 years old (or 16 if not in education), their DC is an adult, and are expected to stand on their on two feet.

Yes, its tough on the DC's - particularly if they haven't been prepared for it - but keeping an adult child is a luxury that most households cannot afford. An 18 year old is entitled to JSA and other benefits, and is considered, for the purposes of other household benefits, to be an adult.

If a 16 yr old DC chooses not to stay on in education, but can't get a job, then why should their parents keep them? It is one thing to support a DC while they are in education, training or on a low salary, another entirely to cover all their expenses while at the same time complaining that for the purposes of CM/benefits, that DC is not entitled to anything because they are considered to be a potential income earner.

What is the motivation for 16 year old DC's to stay on at school, or seek work and/or training if they are given for free a roof over their head, food and clothing? At what age will they stop freeloading off their parents?

It's not a surprise that this issue causes tension between separated parents - particularly when a non-resident parent considers it is time for their DC's to stand on their own two feet but the resident parent wants to continue to provide for them. I have also seen it happen the other way - a resident parent asks their 16/17/18 year old for a financial contribution towards the household, and the DC moves in with the NRP, instead.

Why do you have the younger DSS only once a month?!

Amber , thats what dhs exw wanted . Originally there was no set arangement , and we could only see the kids when exw said so . So it was as and when she allowed.
We had to plead and beg to get regular overnight stays , although dh has always been able to go to exw house any time he liked , the limitation was on me having time with the dsc .

Which is why we are so at the txt from exw , where she says shes going to lawyer to force dh to take dss more .

Infact we rarely go more than 2 days without seeing dss. He just doesnt stay overnight.

the limitation was on me having time with the dsc

Aah! that makes sense!

Sounds like shes trying to act like she never blocked it before by going OTT with the lawyers talk now.

You shouldn't have to pay for an 18 year old man. He will get JSA anyway so he can contribute from that.

"He keeps saying he's staying at dads house this weekend . ( it's actually my house , not his dads , dh lives with me ;-) )"
What a strange thing to say.
If you are married - the house is both of yours isn't it?

Kaluki ..... , your correct of course .

It's a irritation , but exw has always said to the dsc ....your dads house , even before we married , when i had the little flat which was mine . I lived there a year before dh moved in . I admit I'm a bit arsey about that ...

It's not easy being a step parent .

What is often an issue within step families would not be an issue in non-step ones. If my 17 yr old left school I would expect her to earn and be financially responsible for herself. I would not support my adult children in my own house , yet somehow I feel a responsibility toward dss .

Moral argument v legal argument v financial situation .

I'm sorry droves, I wasn't having a dig. It just struck me as a funny thing to say
It's not easy is it. DP told me the other day he will be buying his dc cars as soon as they reach 17. No mention of mine / what I think / whether they deserve cars ... It's a done deal already and it's not for 7 years yet!!
Personally I think 17 is way to young to be bought a car and that they should save up for such things like I had to when I was that age. I also agree that a 17/18 year old shouldn't expect to live off their parents if they leave education but I'm sure the DSC will be entitled to do whatever they bloody well like.

Cars ?

Dear lord ...wish someone would buy me a car !

NotaDisneyMum - I do consider that an over 16 who has left school should stand on their own two feet but it's not always that clear cut is it? My daughter was forced to leave due to lack of attendance (her own fault) and tried very hard to get a job but was unable to due to the fact that we live in the sticks and it's difficult to travel and her location put employers (who had dozens of other applicants) off. She wasn't freeloading, there were no luxuries, i have never spoilt her (i hate spoilt kids!) but someone had to help her live while she applied for jobs - she wasn't entitled to any benefits due to her age. And that's called being a parent, something her father knows nothing about. He didn't stop paying out of some deep rooted belief that she had to stand on her own two feet, he did it because he's a complete excuse for a father (in every way) and wanted to save himself some money as he knew I'd just have to pick up the slack!

By the way, I'm now also a step parent so I think I have a balanced view of things! And my stepson is spoilt by my DP.

Re spoiling them, and re the OP's issue, I consider giving them money directly is more spoiling them than contributing toward their necessities by giving their mum some money towards their keep.

So, if it had been your 16 year old daughter you'd just have turfed her out the house with no money, to fend for herself....???

happy - no, I'll expect her to continue her education if she didn't have a job, there are loads of options, not just staying on at school

Yes, she couldn't get into the local college for the courses she applied for as they ended up being over subscribed. She did eventually get a job but why should I have been left to pay for everything in the interim? Appalling.

Anyhow, wasn't implying to the OP that her DH is anything like my ex as its clear he isn't. Just trying to show a different perspective.

Kaluki my DP has just bought his son (who lives with us) his second car (son is 18!), with no regard to what I think either! They haven't been expensive cars but it's hardly the bloody point - drives me nuts! His son, btw, works full time Oh, and he doesn't have to pay anything towards his keep either... His mum pays his car insurance... My DP pays for all his car maintenance.. Oh and my DP still pays his mobile phone contract for him.. So son works full time and doesn't pay any of his own bills. What the hell is that about.... My sympathies are with you!

Now, that's spoiling a kid!

Happy I can see that being us in about 10 years time!
My dc will however learn to earn their own money and pay their own way in life but they will have to see their DSB and DSSIs have everything handed to them on a silver platter!!!
I hope am sure my kids will be nicer people and ultimately happier than the steps though

Yes, that's my problem.. Despite previous comments that I was somehow spoiling my daughter by allowing her to live with me and her not have to work or continue in education (hope that's now cleared up!), I have never spoiled her, want her to pay towards the house, want her to learn to manage her income and outgoings and it's very hard when my DP just goes his own sweet way with regard to his son (who, btw, has the most enormous sense of entitlement - but then who wouldn't if they live for free despite working!).

Honestly, its infuriating beyond belief at times. I can't see what's so unreasonable about expecting someone who works to pay their own bills!

Its not unreasonable to expect working adults to pay their own bills ! .
Having said that , if someone offered to pay mine I wouldn't say no either .

Now I'm wondering how many of these adult-children are walking financial disasters waiting to happen ? Can you imagine what will happen if they get hold of a credit card ( given that they are used to " free" money ) ? .

I was always in the mindset that teaching children financial responsibility should be be a gradual process from a very early age . That way by the time they reach the age of leaving education they would know what is expected and required of them .

I know a couple who have repeatedly bought their ds cars ...he smashes them up and they get him another . Idiot son had to resit his test after being banned , but that did not stop his parents giving him another car ( and paying his insurance & tax) . The ds is 25 now and they still give him handouts ...it's almost like they have passed the cut of point and cannot work out out how to stop .

Although its nice to help your kids , would it not be better giving them a deposit for a flat ( a larger one off amount) or help pay university fees ? . That way there's at least something to show for it in the long term. Cash on demand is always a bad idea IMO.

I have always told my children once they stop education they will be expected and required to pay for their own upkeep.

One friend of mine did not need to take money for her dd , she had loads herself. But she still charged her dd rent and expenses and put the money aside.

On the day her dd moved out my friend gave her the money as a goodbye gift ....so the dd has a safety net if something goes wrong .