I am at the end of my tether with Dp and Sd (long)

[jammibuttery]

OK, i rarely post here any more, and i'm probably going to remember why once the answers start rolling in, but i'll try anyway.
I've name changed for this, so some of you will recognise me, but SD is nosing around on MN and i don't want her to find this.

I'm truly at the end of the line with my SD and the way my Dp parents her. Sd was thrown out of her mums at 11, and came to live at my house. At the time me and DP had not been together a massively long time, and he was estranged from SD, end result was i had met this girl 3 times, totalling maybe an hour before she lived with me, DP and my DD.

God knows i have tried. I know what happened was awful, and i tried my best to be good to her, even though it put terrible strain on everyone, and she was awful, but i tried to do the best i could with a clearly troubled child.

We got her into school and arranged counselling, and i honestly thought at some point we would see an end to her behaviour. She is still in counselling now.

Fast forward over 2 years, and my relationship with DP is, in my view, at breaking point over her. DP has indulged and indulged and indulged her, to the point that he has created a 14 year old monster, who rules this house and simply cannot be controlled.

Dp cannot be spoken to about her. I know he is also at the end of his tether with her, but any attempt by me to suggest implementing some rules and boundaries (which i think she is crying out for) is turned around on me as my "nastiness and uptight attitude to her". Its regularly thrown in my face that i'm not her mum, and therefore not my business how he parents her, however, today being an example in point, it was thrown in my face how i'm not helping him even when i can see he is struggling with her! He is always telling me how i dont care about her, and would be happy if she went back to her mums. Trouble is, i think DP would like her to go back to her mums, because he is just fucking this up day by day, and is pushing his guilt on to me.

He blames everyone else for her behaviour, but won't deal with anything that is bought to his attention. I have found fag ends in her room, and more recently, a negative pregnancy test which i told him about. His response? Well he can't prove the fag butts are hers, so he can't have a go at her, and he is sure that she probably hasn't had sex, and if she has, he's sure she's not pregnant! She's 14 FFS!!! And the test was done a week after her period, so she actually could be pregnant. He says he's not going to speak to her about it.

She has money thrown at her, and earns nothing. I am heavily pregnant, and he has not ONCE made her hoover or tidy up, i cook her meals, i clean and i shop, whilst looking after my 4 year old dd. Her weekends are regularly spent asleep, just coming out of her room to eat.

She rarely does a full week at school, she will tell DP she is ill, and DP won't make her go to school, he just covers for her. He allows her almost every weekend to have large sleepovers (parties) in our granny flat, where he is ok with them drinking and smoking (though apparently SD is the only one not doing that).

End result is she has become an awful child, who i am sorry to say i am begining to dislike. Me and DP do nothing but row over her, but its reached a point where i don't want to say anything about her behaviour, because it will come back and bite me on the arse, and somehow it will come down to me not being supportive/caring/interested enough. Whatever she has done, i can almost guarantee that the end result will be him yelling at me or not speaking to me, whilst what she actually did goes completely ignored, because i have/haven't said something.

I started trying to "disengage" a few weeks ago, for my own sanity as much as anything, but even that is wrong, because whilst i mustn't say anything about her or her behaviour or have any opinion on how we can change things i also mustn't be seen not to be involved. I am somewhat damned if i do and damned if i don't.

I am exhausted with it. It is like a war zone here. Every time it isn't quite going her way she has tempers and door slamming and tears and flouncing. She is continually rude, she lies, and she is light fingered (to the point that she is actually going through my drawers to take stuff, rather than just seeing things and "borrowing" them. She's going off the rails, her schoolwork and grades are going through the floor, she has lost another set of friends, and is fast reaching a point where no one wants to be her friend, her older sisters can't bear her and her behaviour and want nothing to do with her, and i've reached a point where i'm going to lose my temper with them all. SD is not easily likeable, and her own mother and grandparents struggle with her as well, so it is not all in my head. The last 3 weeks with her and upset over her boyfriend have been simply awful, and both DP and i are exhausted with her.

I am reaching a point where i don't know if i can have all this and have a new baby, and have my dd and continue to live here.

I appreciate she is a teenager, but she has been like this from day one, and even teens need to have some rules they obey. Telling her "no" just gets the reply "well im going to, i'll do what i want". I know my dd is only 4, and its regularly thrown at me that i "don't understand teens" which i will accept, but i know when my dd is 14 smoking, truanting and sleeping with her 17 year old boyfriend will not be just ignored.

Some how i seem to cop the flack for this all the time, and i no longer know what to do for the best here. I thought bit would get better with her, but despite counselling, and the attempt to give her a more stable homelife she actually seems to be getting worse.

This is appalling, for all the many reasons everyone else has already outlined - as if you needed telling anyway ! Thing is .... although you obviously don't want to lose your relationship, when you're up against someone who's got his head so far buried in the sand all you can see are the soles of his feet, I'm not sure that you have very many options available to you ....

.... clearly, you've attempted to rectify this situation again and again with him. By talking, by "agreeing" plans of action and so on, which are then ignored. So - this situation isn't going to change any time soon. I really think you have only two options. You either put up with things as they are (maybe attempt to do the right thing in the hope it might have some effect, like contacting the school, but I really think it needs his co-operation if this is ever going to be turned round, or at least made remotely tolerable), or, you issue him with an ultimatum over counselling (with the proviso that that's not a magic answer either, and it's still possible your relationship might have to end, despite you hoping it can be salvaged). I fear that the first option will drive you mad ... and undoubtedly, you'll feel even more stressed out once you have another child to care for too. I appreciate the second option might not sound very attractive either but my god, this man needs a huge kick up the backside. Someone has got to make him see that he's doing his daughter no favours at all ... his irresponsibility is endangering her well being. God knows what might happen. And of course, apart from concerns about her, the atmosphere and behaviour you're being expected to endure is shocking ... it's beyond arrogant of him to inflict this upon you and then verbally attack you should you dare to object.

As for not knowing what it's like to be a teenager !! What utter shite. Did you go to bed aged 12 one day and wake up the following morning as a 20 year old ? ... the bloody ignorant arse.

Am so so sorry he's doing this to you, and especially now. It's utterly disrespectful, and also a dreadful example to set to your younger children.

I've debated whether or not to post what I am about to - it's not done maliciously or designed to upset you, but it WILL scare you.

He allows her almost every weekend to have large sleepovers (parties) in our granny flat, where he is ok with them drinking and smoking

I used to work as a civilian investigator with the police. These types of parties were the most common source of reports of rape and of drug experimentation and/or drinking/drink-spiking leading to hospitalisation - in at least one case I remember, it led to a death. Allegations of rape in these situations were a weekly occurrence - even though many of them were withdrawn later, after investigation.

It doesn't matter whether it is legally your home or not, or whether you knew in advance that a party was going to happen - if a teen is injured, makes an allegation of assault or worse, then Social Services and the Police will be all over your family, and the safety of YOUR children, in YOUR care, will be put under scrutiny. You will be considered complicit, along with your DP.

I think it's time to decide what to put first - your DP, who is putting not only his own daughter at risk, but your DC's as well - or put your foot down, step in and ensure that you and your children don't get caught in the fallout when his lack of parenting catches up with him

Bored. I utterly agree with you.

I think she is desperate for someone to parent her, not be her mate or give her her own way.

But my hands are so tied here. I think i know what she needs/wants but he won't let me do it, or back me up.

He has got a lot of bad press from his ex about what a brute and dictator he was as a father that he seems to have decided to simply go the other way, with what i think is going to be disasterous results. She has been pushing the boundaries since the day she arrived, and he has never really found a point that he won't be pushed past.

TBH i thought the pregnancy test would have been the straw that broke the camels back and i was shocked when it became the "thing we don't talk about"

In his defence, as such, he is always working so much after he got a real financial hit in the divorce, that i think he wants the easy life. He never was a parent, he always worked a lot when he was married and his ex brought the children up, his only real input was to shout and discipline if the ex couldn't cope. He has now gone the other way.

All of their children are a handful and unpleasant, because i think they both had something more important to do than look after the kids. Certainly, they both blame each other for how the children are, when i think they are both equally to blame.

Unfortunately him and ex hate each other so much, that they wouldn't even be able to have a constructive conversation over how best to deal with all this.

NADM certainly food for thought, and again something that worries me. I have told him how much trouble we will be in if something goes wrong. I dont have a huge issue with teenage drinking, as i do remember myself at 14, but, i have a lot of concerns over them drinking where we won't know if something has gone wrong, or even how much they have drunk.

Thing is the going over to the flat started when i got pregnant and had it up to the back teeth with her bloody mates in the house, i was never keen on that, but it started as a girl or two, now it is several girls, plus lads "visiting" . If it was her and a friend eating snacks and watching DVDS with a bacardi Breezer i probably wouldn't care, but as with everything, she has to push it to two girls, three, four, five, then lads. I often don't know about it until its happening, because they know i will say no.

Thats how it seems to be now, don't tell Jammi, we'll just spring it on her, so to speak.

I may have to speak to his mum. She is quite good about all this, and has spoken to him before about what he is letting go on. She is certainly my ally in this, and doesn't always have good things to say about either of the parents parenting styles.

It sounds like she ticks a lot of the boxes for drug-use, and she's got the ideal opportunity given what you have said about the flat:

If it was her and a friend eating snacks and watching DVDS with a bacardi Breezer i probably wouldn't care, but as with everything, she has to push it to two girls, three, four, five, then lads.

Are you sure it's just booze that the DC's are bringing with them?

I found this on the talk to frank website:

? moody
? not bothered about personal hygiene
? not interested in anything
? staying out late
? falling out with old friends and in with a new crowd.
? loss of appetite, drowsiness, poor hygiene or appearance
? mood swings
? red-rimmed eyes and/or a runny nose
? uncharacteristic loss of interest in school, hobbies and friends
? money going missing regularly for no apparent reason
? unusual equipment found around the house, such as burnt foil, torn cigarette packets.

Drugs or not, the fact that your flat is being used by teens for unsupervised parties is eventually going to come to the attention of the authorities. It only needs one of the DC's who come along to post your address on FB, or twitter and you'll have all sorts of undesirables (dealers/predators) turning up. And what about neighbours? It won't be long before someone objects.

Gosh Jammi, and I thought we had step-parenting issues in OUR house! You've had a lot of comments here, and good advice, and mine won't be much different. Two things only come to mind.

Firstly, you need to either speak to SDS's mum (is that possible?), or another important member in the family i.e. DP's mum. Paraphrase some of the legal issues that have been raised here and say life in your house (& granny flat!) has to change, and it has to change now. You will personally contact SS if there is no further support for you, as you are now aware that you are all breaking the law (more or less). And do it. SDS, for all her faults, is still a child who needs protecting from both her out of control social life, and from herself. She is not capable of making good decisions. She probably can't decide which jeans to wear most days.

Secondly, reading YOUR posts specifically, you tell a detailed, well reasoned story, that in its current format has no happy ending. Can you cut and paste your posts into a letter/email for DP, and then leave him for the weekend while you go away with DD to a friend's or family? You, dear Jammi, need breathing space. You have a baby on the way, and all this stress can't be good for you. Take a break. Maybe this will shock DP into realising what he has to do to become a parent, instead of a friend, to his daughter.

Please think of yourself now, together with DD and your little-one-on-the-way. It's very clear that life in your house cannot continue just as it is right now.

I've got to say that even before I read notadisneymum's post, the one thing I was thinking was the risk of older boys being at these 'parties' and the risk of rape. 14 year old girls at an unrestricted party will inevitably attract older boys, and it's not rocket science to think what they might be getting up to.

What if one of her friends gets raped or assaulted? This being linked to somewhere you live, and effectively facilitated by your Dh, wouldn't turn out well for any of you.

I feel so bad for you. This can't be easy, and now you have the added pressure of your new baby to think of.

I can appreciate that the thought of leaving is probably terrifying, not only because you clearly love him but also because your child would then be spending time there unsupervised be you.

I think you DP needs a massive reality shock, and maybe you reporting some of this to the authorities might actually give him this. Really don't know. There's been some really good advice here. I wish you all the best, I really do

Thanks for all the replies.

I don't know what i'm going to do to be honest. SD is away at her mums this weekend, but we have ss coming instead, so as usual i wont get 5 minutes of peace to think.

I am sure DP will be offish with me for the next day or two.

TBH i could cope better with SDs behaviour if i didn't feel like the whipping boy all the time! Seems no matter what SD does, it ultimately comes down to me not caring or spending time with her, or liking her or having girly chats or being maternal enough to her.

It is hard, and in a way what he says is true, i don't really like her (though i don't think i show it) but i am distanced from her, because this is often the only way i can manage to control my temper over the way they are. certainly, i do not at the moment, want to spend any extra time with her, and even if i did, then what? I chat to her and i try to lay down some ground rules, which DP then over rides because i am too harsh?

Most time i feel like i am banging my head against a wall with a DP who absolutely wont admit he is wrong.

One of his older daughters has tried to talk to him about sds behaviour as well, but of course, she is jealous, biased, being snotty about her, forgetting what its like to be a teenager (she's 23, not likely to have forgotten already) and is trying to lecture him, so its not just me gets it in the ear.

He simply will not accept his way is not working, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

I don't think she is doing drugs.............yet. I think we are a small step away from pot, but not too far.

I am very dubious about the boys, it used to be ok when there were a couple of 13 year old boys from school, as we knew them and their parents, but the boyfriend has brought new, older lads into her circle, and i have to be honest, for all she feels she is mature and knowledgeable i think she is getting right out of her depth and this is possibly how we've ended up with a pregnancy test, and her being worse, i think she is too young to handle the emotions that go with young girls and sex, and i don't think he is a nice lad.

What father of a 14 year old girl is happy for her and several other young teenage girls to be unsupervised in a flat, getting drunk with older boys? And not only that, but is also happy to get some booze in for them!?!

Does he honestly think this is a winning idea? Most dads of teenage daughters could think of nothing they would want less! Does he know anyone else with teenage dds?

Why has she fallen out with a group of friends? Do you know?

TBH i could cope better with SDs behaviour if i didn't feel like the whipping boy all the time!

Jammi this isn't about DSD, though, it's about the lack of respect that your DP has for you.

One thing that your DP has said is right - your DSD is just behaving like a teen; one who has no boundaries, is not being parented and has been taught no self-control. In the absence of those things, this is how a teen behaves - just like a toddler unsupervised in a sweet shop.

Start getting angry with your DP - he is treating you appallingly, and not only is failing his DD by not parenting her, he is also setting a very bad example of how men treat women in relationships. Does he really want her to end up as unhappy as you are?

This is and should be a HUGE threat to your marriage because your OH is sounding like a complete wet wuss with regard to parenting. I imagine he imagines SD will grow out of it? Nope, without proper parenting with boundaries that will NO happen.

I have two DDs myself (20 and 23) and I saw similar to this when they were young. The 'cool' family. A bright girl that was friends with my DD1 had parents that literally let her get away with murder. This girl was clever, bright, talented but walked all over her parents, treated them like shit, behaved intolerably and it caused us problems because I wouldn't let my DD1 do what this girl got away with.

Fast forward 8 years. DD1's friend dropped out of school, got pregnant, and her parents don't even know where she lives any more. My DD1 got a first class degree to a top Uni and is shortly starting a Grad Trainee scheme. 14 is a very very difficult age for a girl. Is YOUR DH trying to be a cool parent? If so, he needs a kick up the arse. He should parent, not be a walk over.

If your OH doesn't tackle this NOWyour SD will end up like my daughter's friend. There IS time to redress the balance if he and you acts now. I would ask him 'do you want me to be involved in anything at all with your DD?' If he says yes, tell him that his way is NOT working and he either does it your way or you will have nothing to do with the situation. Surely you have a right to say 'NO' to the parties in the house? Why can't you say NO? Youlive there!

To be honest, if it were my DH my love for him would start to erode with the way he is parenting.

Your SD is screaming out for rules and boundaries, I have seen it with this friend of my DD1.

It's enormous stress for you but I do think you need to issue him an ultimatum. NO parties whatsoever ever again, or you will go off with your baby and have a rethink of your marriage. The two of you should draw up some rules and you have a family meeting to discuss this with her. Tell your SD you want to start again with her and will do so. The rules need to include 'no stealing, respect privacy and boundaries in the house, no parties etc'. If she earns your and your DHs trust over a period of time, a supervised sleepover may be allowed. I can't believe you allow these parties to happen in your shared house.

I would be rapidly going off my DH with this situation, I really would. Are you?

Sorry to ramble... it must be so difficult for you, and I wish you lots and lots of luck

Are you not worried that he is going to try and "raise" your daughter and the new baby the same way?

He actually has a pretty good relationship with my DD and I don't think he will be the same with the baby. I think he had so much bad press for firm parenting that he is now trying to redress the balance but has gone too far the other way.
Its like he feels he needs to make things up to her, which in a way he does, as it was a very bitter divorce and both parents have behaved appallingly to each other, but he can't see that making it up doesn't have to mean being walked over.
He is looking forward to the baby, because he feels all his children just take from him, but when chips are down they will pick their mum. Which is quite true actually!
I think he will be a much better parent to the baby, which is just as well as he couldn't be a bloody worse one to SD!

He actually has a pretty good relationship with my DD and I don't think he will be the same with the baby. I think he had so much bad press for firm parenting that he is now trying to redress the balance but has gone too far the other way.
Its like he feels he needs to make things up to her, which in a way he does, as it was a very bitter divorce and both parents have behaved appallingly to each other, but he can't see that making it up doesn't have to mean being walked over.
He is looking forward to the baby, because he feels all his children just take from him, but when chips are down they will pick their mum. Which is quite true actually!
I think he will be a much better parent to the baby, which is just as well as he couldn't be a bloody worse one to SD!

Is it possible for you, his mother, and his other children to sit him down and talk to him, without playing the blame game?
Or maybe set up a family meeting with the counsellor?

It's so sad that the cry for help pregnancy test hasn't been dealt with by dad. It must have really confirmed for her that he doesn't have the backbone to parent her.
I wanted to make all the points below regards drugs, drink, rape, boundaries... But I won't repeat.
I can't help being torn between feeling do so sorry for you Jammi and thinking you should cut your loses and run... And Thinking that it's no random thing that you've ended up in this family and that with a little more strength you could save this poor little girl

I have a slightly different prospective. I would actually encourage the gatherings at your house/granny flat, at least you know exactly where SD is and it is far better than hanging out late in the streets or at someone else's house (for example someone who's parents are drug addicts). But there are ways of managing the volume of alcohol.

It really sounds to me like you and your other half are not working together as a team to parent your SD. Things are 'thrown' at you and it sounds like a pretty bitter way of life. I wonder if, despite how you have said you feel about SD, you could make a little time for her? - book a spa that does pregnancy massage as well as massage and take her for a day out, with lunch after or a bit of shopping. It actually sounds to me like she needs a mum, and that entails the doing stuff with as well as the disciplining. As the adult in the relationship I think it is up to you to start the ball rolling. If you have 'normal' nice times together then it may be easier for both her, and your partner, to also accept a bit of discipline from you.

She most probably is having sex. The age of consent is, in my mind, a pretty arbitrary number. In my opinion it is not the being sexually active that needs to be addressed, that won't change, but the discussion needed is how to avoid pregnancy or, worse, STD's. But, that will be covered in school. Everyone makes mistakes, even a 14 year old, the condom could have slipped off, it could even have been a friends. I wouldn't focus on the pregnancy test but I do think you both could sit down with her do a quick 'safe sex' chat - or over the supper table with smalls and all, sex is normal, I don't see any reason a 14-year-old should not (apart from the law) be having sex.

toxic how would you advise the OP to respond to rudeness and abuse towards her when inviting her DSD, and how should she deal with a bad attitude towards her or staff at the spa while they are there?

I understand where you are coming from and did try this approach with my DSS but his lack of respect for me, and refusal to listen - coupled with his inability to accept discipline from me, put him at risk - so I had to withdraw and leave DP to lead.

I don't see any reason a 14-year-old should not (apart from the law) be having sex.
I can see plenty of very good reasons. I was about to say "of course, it is your choice if you feel this way, to give your permission to your own child to engage in sexual activity" - except of course, it's not. There is an age of consent. So I will just say that you are of course entitled to your own opinion about the validity or sense of that law.

You will get no argument from me on one point - 14 year-olds do have sex. That doesn't mean as parents we have to accept it as 'normal' and facilitate it in our homes.

I would actually encourage the gatherings at your house/granny flat, at least you know exactly where SD is and it is far better than hanging out late in the streets or at someone else's house (for example someone who's parents are drug addicts).
Even if this made sense as a parenting strategy for one's own child - it is basically creating the environment for other children whose parents then do not have the same security. Giving alcohol to your own child is one thing; providing alcohol to other people's children is not only illegal, it is very very foolish. Moreover, OP is not describing a supervised environment, so no, they do not know what is going on in that flat.

And why the mention of pregnancy massage? If DSD were pregnant, would a voucher for a pregnancy massage be in order...? I'm baffled.

I just spat my coffee out... "no reason why 14 year olds shouldnt be having sex"

I dont really know where to begin.

I can think of a lot of reasons why a 14yo should not be having saw . The lack of emotional maturity to deal with it it probably top though. Though I have no doubts that indeed some 14 year olds do have sex, I find it utterly astounding that any sensible adult can't think of any reason why they shouldnt. Utterly, utterly baffled.

Dear God your DP is useless.
14 year old should not be drinking smoking and having sex, he has no parenting skills at all and no matter how much guilt he has over his daughter he needs to man up.

If it is your house I would chuck them both out, you really do not need this much stress it is not worth it, think how bad she is going to be when the baby arrives

I dont understand this "they'll do it anyway so it might as well be under your roof"
For a start, even if on some kind of incredibly fucked up planet it were okay to use that philosophy with your own children, you have no right to apply it to the other children who may be there.
But in any case,even if your own child... why is it necessary that they will make these bad choices!? Yes, lots of 14 year olds have sex. Lots of 12 and 13 year olds have sex. But why should it be that yours do? Why are you okay with that. By allowing it in your house is saying it's okay. Surely?

hmmmmm, lots of responses..........

I don't want sd having sex here. I'd rather she didn't have it at all. This last few weeks, which have involved sex with an older boy, pregnancy tests, and general awful behaviour have shown me that she simply is not mature enough to handle it, despite what she thinks.

She has run off to stay with her mother, and we have been informed she isn't coping well and will be off school and at her mums for at least a week.

This does not sound like a girl who is mature enough to deal with sex and the emotions involved in it.

I don't want it in the house, because i have a young DD and i don't want her thinking thats how you carry on.

Re taking her out for a spa etc, i am simply not in a place right now to try to give her little treats. She has helped to push my relationship to the brink, and has helped to make this one of the most miserable pregnancies of my life, as all i have heard for months is how she feels, what she wants and watched my DP turn himself upside down and inside out to indulge her.

At the moment a day in each others company would be an ordeal for both of us i suspect.

Dp very hurt that she has run off to her mum, who has had very little to do with her in the last two years, and i think its been a shock to him, just how little he matters to SD, when it comes to doing what she wants to do..........

If he allows his DD to grow up in a manner to which he thinks is how all teenage dds behave do you want YOUR DD to grow up with that? And what if your next DC is another DD? The fact that he condones (and imo promotes) this behaviour and seems to believe that it is all par for the course would make me seriously consider the long term.

It will become practically impossible for you to raise your DD and any future ones in a manner to which you think is correct as he will skew their views on what is correct and normal teenage behaviour, making it ten times harder for you.