Do we give up?

[Smum99]

DH's ex has always been difficult she had affairs and is about to remarry for the nth time. She isn't a good person and I suspect she has some type of personality disorder as she can appear pleasant but will then change (usually after a quickly arranged marriage). We know this from dh's experience but also from her other former husbands and the `friends' who she has betrayed by having affairs with their husbands.

DSS lives with his mum ex, who moved far away and DH & I relocated to be as close to him. I have been significantly impacted by the decision as my dcs & I are further away from my family and I have not managed to get a job that is as positive for my career. In addition housing costs are greater so DH & I struggle financially. Despite the issues I have made friends and my dcs are established at school.

I would be happy to live with the compromises since it's about what's best for the whole family however I've had the sudden realisation that DSS just doesn't value DH (or myself and his half siblings).
In the past the ex was successful with parental alienation tactics and she's been open about wanting dh to be sidelined so that her latest partner/husband takes the lead as dad. We know the cycle and it's now happening for the 3rd time. DSS goes along with it as he is very materialistic and he will drop DH if he gets the chance to have clothes or a new phone bought by the new dad.
So I'm wondering just why we are bothering to make it work when we are being undermined all the time. If DH gave up and didn't constantly negotiate contact (despite having a court order) he would be accused of walking out on his son but are we really supposed to make EOW (and the week proceeding) so stressful for us because DH has to compete/negotiate/battle to see his son? So do we just accept the situation and give up EOW contact and see dss when dh is summoned to collect him?

Anyone else got to this point?

PS DSS is no longer in contact with the previous stepdads as the ex insists on no contact afterwards. DH is just an annoyance to her as he hasn't just gone away.

You could have written this about my DSD and her mum - the only difference being that she can't get a man has stayed single for the sake of the children, so she is the one buying the DSC and wishing that DP would go away

How did the contact order come about? Why is your DP negotiating for contact despite there being an order in place?

If the CO is being broken, and your DP has done everything he can to have it enforced, then no-one who matters will accuse your DP of walking out on his son.

DP has always said that he would never compromise his relationship with his DS in order to maintain contact with DD, something that he had to keep in mind when in court, and many times since.

We've had the CO for quite a few years and it was working well but since the latest man came on the scene it's all up in the air again. As dss is 14 it's not likely that it can be enforced. This weekend is an example - dss is being offered a shopping trip with his mum and soon to be husband. We start the week with vagueness over the visit but then thurs or fri dh will finally get a text saying dss isn't coming. No dates for when it will be rescheduled and we assume in another 2 weeks but we're left hanging. If DH contacted the ex she would be hostile and aggressive.

Only a short while ago dss was sobbing and genuinely upset about the negative changes in his mum's life and I spent most of my weekend in comfort mode however when a pair of expensive jeans are on offer he just forgets all about us.

I know dh has done everything he can, he would wake in the middle of night, drive for hours to see dss, at the appointed time - 7am (and not 7.02am as ex would rant) to spend time with his son. He never ever failed to see him, he has always attended school events, he has contributed financially, paying CM and childcare costs as well as SM (even though it was a short marriage and the ex was working).

DH is a very involved dad, he did all the settling in sessions at the nursery when his ex went back to work, he read the school books with dss instead of his mum, he has been involved with secondary school fixing the issues dss is having with some subjects (which seems to have worked). He sits beside DSS and helps with homework and he teaches dss life skills. Dss talks to me most about his problems and my oldest has really put herself out to be a fantastic and caring older sibling.

However even with all that effort DH (& I feel) such responsibility (maybe guilt) to stay in his life, I'm not sure we know how to let go. It's as if we have to switch on feelings (if he comes to us) and then switch off (if he decides to go low contact).

I know this isn't typical teen behaviour as we have gone through this at various other times (last time we got the CO) and it's because DH is considered unnecessary by the ex and DSS goes along with it.

Not sure what I'm asking - I always felt optimistic, time would be on our side and if we always did the right thing it would come good but it seems that dss has stronger influences and he will not be the caring boy we had hoped.

How sad for Dss to be used that way. I always think the good will out on most things but ur post has left me questioning that statement. Clearly a heartbreaking situation. I really feel for u and ur DP. :(

Lost, I think the lack of hope has really hit me and I'm struggling with that. I feel very tearful and wish I had never got involved at the beginning. When I met DH I thought that time would settle everything as long as we behaved maturely. I had been a single mum so knew that relationships took between 2-4 years to fully recover from but over 10 years later it's still going on.

Even if dss does start to come back on a regular basis the damage has been done. He will seem like a stranger to us. He's not the best at communicating on email/text/phone so it's hard to maintain contact. When he is in this phase (new step dad is a novelty) we are sidelined. I know that he's encouraged to form relationships with the new partner and the ex wants dh to fade away (but to maintain financial contributions).

I know others are going through this and are further down the journey - it's pretty crap and just highlights that if a parent really wants to block contact it's so easy to do. A learning point for others might be if you have CO it should state that if a weekend moves it MUST be replaced with another date. Ours just stipulated EOW and holidays and the ex always has reasons for why it can't happen.

DSS lives with his mums ex? why doesnt he live with you/your DH if he doesnt live with his mum?

Or have I totally misunderstood?

It is confusing! DSS lives with his mum and soon to be husband, dh was the 1st husband.There are half siblings from the other marriages and they all live with the mum.

The new husband has 2 children. The ex is very keen to create family life with her 'new' family and as an example she moved the new partner into the house straight away.She is also suggesting that dss should take the step father's surname as it would make travelling (dangling a Disney trip) easier.

It seems that dss's mum believes the only way she can create the new family is by excluding her ex partners.

Aah! ok I get it now!

She sounds as though shes trying to rewrite history and erase your DH.

It must be hard, but I think I would not 'give up' as such but just try and step back? just try and make normal contact and keep the scheduled contact, if he chooses not to come so be it but always have it as an option. I think that would be better for DSS in the way of stability which TBH he doesnt appear to get from his mum. sounds like you are wisely not getting into any competative gift giving.

I think the lack of stability at his mums has made him insecure and he probably grabs whatever she throws at him [any attention is good attention?]

Also I know you've said it already but teens can be incredibly selfish and looks as though his mother knows how to manipulate him with bribery.

Must be very hard when you have such vastly different parenting methods.

It's as if we have to switch on feelings (if he comes to us) and then switch off (if he decides to go low contact).

This is how I (and to an extent, DP) felt about DSD, as well.

She can go months at a time with no contact, with just hostile public derision via FB and relatives, and then suddenly, she needs emotional support and DP is the only person she can turn to, so he drops everything and emotionally invests in her again, only to be disowned again a matter of days later

I have now made it clear that until DP has re-established a stable relationship with her, I'm not going to get involved. Dp is on an emotional roller coaster all the time, never knowing whether he has to protect himself from rejection, or be emotionally available to her in case she needs him.

Oh smum, I hear you. I do think maybe it's time for you to detach. But I doubt your dh will be able to, even if he wanted to. It's do sad that she is clearly trying to write her past out of her life. Do you think it's a pride thing? I know my dh's ex would rather people didn't know that she has had three children by three different men, or that she has had a failed marriage. It doesn't fit in to her little plan so to hell with what's best for everyone else involved.
I don't really have any advice I'm afraid

Yes WSM, I feel I have to detach as it's not healthy for me, our dc's or my relationship with DH. I'm blaming DH and angry with him for the situation. I have an ex but it's been pain free and straightforward for DH as it's a respectful relationship, with our dc's at the centre. I guess I had thought that at some stage DH's ex would be like this. Naive or what!!

Anyway so now looking at ways to detach..it's hard, I've been conditioned to care for dss otherwise I would have been the wicked step mum! It will be tough when he does arrive however DH is considering having a frank conversation with him first. At 14 he knows how his behaviour impacts.

There is a current thread on the relationship board that highlights the impact of parents splitting up for dc's and dh's ex does all the things that the posters have said were damaging to them as children:(

Hi Smum99 - Certainly feel for you and your DH and the boy really as I'm sure his mom expects him to "love" his new daddy. She sounds incredibly emotionally immature.

We have been through similar problems with my SD refusing us contact with 2 of her children. It's long and complicated story so won't bore you with it. She really did try to "poison" the children's minds against us and for a long time we weren't allowed any contact, as the children were too young and could do nothing about it. SO all we could do was sit back and wait and when the eldest girl got to 15 or so she saw her mother's feet of clay and her younger brother followed suit. As soon as they were old enough (15 and 16) they came to see us of their own volition and stood up to their mother.

They are now in their 20s and we enjoy a really good r/ship with them, much to their mother's anger,but they both live independently of their mother and so there is no problem, except she still has a go at them if she knows they've visited us.

We just sat back and hoped that eventually the kids would see what their mother was doing and make their own minds up and that is exactly what they did. Maybe you need to sit back and do nothing at the moment, rather than detach which I think must be very hard to do. I think there is every chance that your DSS will be much more in your lives when he is a bit older and autonomous. I think you just need to accept the situation as it is at the moment as most teenagers are acquisitive, especially for electronic gadgets. However it is you he comes to when he is upset. That speaks volumes.
Just let him know that you care and the door is always open for him.

I've always considered detaching to be an emotional process - separate from practical actions.
I cannot imagine having to sit back and wait for DSD to grow up and decide whether or not to have contact with her dad, while at the same time, remaining emotionally invested in her welfare, growth and achievement - it would be far too emotionally destructive on me and my relationships with DP and DSS.

Being able to disregard the implications of her failed GCSE, her promiscuous lifestyle and her sense of entitlement has prevented me from lying awake at night worrying, or trying to seek solutions for something I am unable to influence.
That doesn't mean I don't support DP or that i am not committed to dealing with issues as they arise - but I'm not emotionally involved, so whatever the outcome, I can view things reasonably objectively.

Smum, which thread on relationships?

Hi Smum, so sorry to hear things are so rubbish and sad for you right now. I think Ambers suggestion would be the one I could live with easiest. We have a very similiar situation, albeit with a younger child. I think at fourteen keeping everything on offer but allowing it to be on the childs terms (whilst refusing flat out the name thing is probably the kindest thing. It must be so tough on both you guys and him and I would imagine that for a teen who has been taught that this phase wont last so make the most of it in the interim its all very confusing and hard. He wont go against his mum as in these situations they know she will have the power. How sad for your lovely sounding Dh.

WSM, this thread - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1467092-If-your-parents-split-up-when-you-were-6-years-old

Yes, I think with the ex it's very much a pride thing, she cares very much about how she is perceived from the outside. She has new cars, designer clothes and multiple holidays and crucially if she's married then it means she's not a loser! (that's the words she has used to dss!)

She hasn't ever been on her own, she met DH as a teen and has literally leapfrogged from one man to another.We know about the new husband from his ex wife and he's far from perfect and there are many red flagging waving. I'm glad dss is older but he has younger siblings who are at a vulnerable age.

My concern is that dss will develop like his mum. Genetics play a part here and so far he is more like his mum than dh.In addition he is being raised by his mum with her values so dh's input can only be marginal.

Thanks Smum -

We worry about that too. You don't want to write the kids off, but sometimes the evidence is too much to ignore.