Present Buying

[peugotgringo]

Hi All

I have not given all the info here as it would be an essay but happy to answer any questions and fill in blanks where needed.

DH has a 13yo DD. We don't see her and haven't done since Xmas. She's ignored him and all his calls, texts, cards through the post etc. He's understandably hurt and pissed off. He's even resorted in desperation to get some reaction to saying out right that she doesn't have to see him/contact him but he'd just like to know either way so he knows where he stands. Still nothing and his ex just unhelpfully says it's up to DD,
He has now given up trying apart from the odd text here and there.

I like to be orgnaised sodding anal about things especially present buying as it helps to spread the cost and i've seen some things that would be ideal for her birthday/xmas

However my DH has basically said no, she's not getting anything further from us until she gets in touch and comes to see us. He has always paid maintenance and never missed a payment. We also struggle each month (who doesn't at the moment) to make ends meet. He could theoretically reduce his CSA payments as his take home wage has reduced, but it's not really worth the hassle over what is, in the great scheme of things, not that much to make a massive difference to us.

Now, whilst I 100% agree with his way of thinking (there are other issues regarding her previous behaviour)- I have tried to say that we just can't do this, she's his daughter, she's a child, not an adult she gets presents, but he's quite adamant about it. I think it's still the hurt and that when it actually gets nearer to her bday and xmas he won't be saying this at all but.......

What do you all think about his stance? Do you feel resentment (can't think of any other words to use) about buying presents for a child you never see?

Oh hell, yes!

My DSD has done similar - at Xmas, DP and I bought her a gift and also accepted gifts on her behalf from family.

DP refused to deliver them too her, explaining that they'd be here when she wanted to collect them.

Cue the abuse and insults not only from DSD but from his family members too!

I think your DP is dealing with this very well - too many dads bribe and cajole their DCs and avoid parenting them.

As an aside, it's international parental alienation day today - there's quite a lot of information about this available - your DP is not alone.

Well we happen to spend Boxingday at his mum's as DSIL and her family comes across then, so, she's invited there and that's where all the presents were. So that would never be an option to 'withold' presents but after last years attitude i'm very reluctant to put ANY effort into them.

I was slightly miffed at my IL's to be honest, although I have absolutely no right to be, she's their only grand daughter/niece. BUT they went ahead and bought her the expensive things she'd asked for regarding her hobby that they are not allowed to be involved in and even though they never see her either. And this was after my MIL had specifically said after her birthday she wouldn't do it again.

It just fucks me off that she expects bloody expensivethings without any effort on her part. She forgot her dad's birthday this year, the first time ever I might add, he thinks it will be a good lesson for her if it happens to her too!

Again I agree, we keep being told she's old enough to make her own decisions so along with being responsible enough for that, comes the school of hard knocks too I suppose.

Oh, now I've started I could go on and on and on

thanks NADM

I was slightly miffed at my IL's to be honest, although I have absolutely no right to be, she's their only grand daughter/niece. BUT they went ahead and bought her the expensive things she'd asked for regarding her hobby that they are not allowed to be involved in and even though they never see her either.

Tell me about it - you'll get me started too!

My IL pay regularly for DSD's hobby, even though she only ever makes contact with them when she needs more money and ignores them the rest of the time. I've told them how I feel about it - that I consider them to be undermining DP and that they are buying the tiny amount of contact that they have with their DGD.....but we've agreed to disagree and I've left it to DP.

Yes, I find it hard that his parents and sister put DSD (she's not actually a darling at all, far from it) and ultimately his ex wife before him and his feelings if that makes sense.

Seems we're not alone in that thought which makes it easier I have to say.

It's all ludicrous isnt it? an extension of this topic : Due to a grudge between her and her parents, my DH's exw will not allow her parents to have any contact with the children. However her parents (my DH's inlaws) want to support their grandchildren in their hobbies. So my DH's ex literally drives up to the house with DSS in the car, he gets out of the car, rings the doorbell. His grandma gives him some cash, then he gets back in the car and goes off to his lesson.
Luckily we ensure that when they are with us, both kids get time with their grandparents (even though their mother disapproves). I hate it and it is very very bad manners.

I agree with you peugot - she is still a child and his daughter. I'd be encouraging him to continue to buy birthday and Christmas presents. I wouldn't see it as a bribe, it's a way of saying to his dd that he loves her unconditionally. And even if she didn't come to see him, they could be sent to her.

My dsd isn't in touch with her mum, and I know how hurt she is (despite the bravado) when she doesn't hear from her on her birthday or at Christmas.

What waxtart said. If he doesn't get her something it will fuel the resentment and self pity on her part. Don't forget 13 is still very young. Although they seem grown up, think of all the stupid decisions you made at that age.

We, my dh and I are in a similar position. In fairness, sd was asked what she'd like for Xmas? "I don't want anything" she replied. So, we didn't buy. Dh texts and calls but she ignores him. Hes a good dad. Always there for his kids, financially supports, as he should. Continued to do so AT THE SAME RATE OF PAYMENT when out of work a couple of years ago. Sd is 18. It's been 9 months. Personally, I'd not care if she didn't come round as I've tried sooo hard and had everything thrown back at me. I feel sorry for dh, though.

It here are 2 other steps who are lovely, BTW!

I think your dh is right. Tough love. "This how it feels to be cut off". That way, your sd might begin to think about her behaviour. Yes, she's only young. Yes, divorce is tough on these kids but it doesn't mean that decent, kind and considerate behaviour goes out the window!

I would get her something that would keep and have it wrapped at your house in case she comes round, and post her a card. Children change a lot at that age and it might be that she starts to see how badly she is behaving so you don't want to do anything that would seem like a permanent rejection.

Waxtart - is your DSD not in contact with her mum becuase of Mum or because of herself? I don't understand parents who don't keep in touch with their kids, I do understand the irony in that statement tho

My DSD has no contact with her dad through her own choice. He's tried and tried. Which is now why he's given up basically. I think he should keep sending a text every week so he can't be accused of never giving a shit but if he does that, how long does he do it for?

Other posters have said before how their kids hate to get bombarded with texts from the absent parent so there clearly needs to be a fine line.

I know if he starts to be a disney dad she'll come running and take take take, but that's not something that is a) healthy, b) affordable c) something I will allow

I think I will get her what i've already seen, but I'll leave the rest up to him. I have previously said, after her shitty attitude to all the effort i've put in, that i'd do nothing else for her, but even i'm not that much of a bitch!

Eliza - that's my problem too, I just feel so bad for my DH - who truly is an absolute darling - he's bewildered by it all. And very very hurt, although he tries to pretend it's not to bad.

They had a good relationship, did their own little father daughter thing that was just for them, and although we didn't have regular and rigid contact due to him working shifts he saw her often enough. Then it just stopped, no reason, no explanation.

peugot my DP has been writing a regular letter to his estranged DD for over a year now - he sends it to arrive each day the scheduled contact would happen.

It was recommended by Richard Warshak in his book Divorce Poison and when we met Karen Woodall from the centre for Separated Families last year, she also suggested it. DP keeps DSD up to date with what is happening in his life - so if she ever does decide to reconnect with him, he is not as much of a stranger to her as she is to him

My DP knows that I think he could be doing more to re-establish contact; I think DSD has got to a point where she wants to but doesn't know how to, and doesn't want to lose face - so if DP made it easy for her she would probably respond, but she won't take the first steps herself.
On the other hand, I have incredibly hostile feelings towards her, and will need to deal with those when the time comes

Im not a step parent but my stepdad experiences this with daughter and my parents are divorced. I've had similar conversations with my stepdad over his daughter.

Between 13-15 i was hellish to my mum and cut contact with my dad. I had big issues around their break up and the level of contact i'd had with my dad. I pretty much ignored him and had sent him a letter telling him how i felt. He could have cut contact in retaliation but he didnt. Birthday and xmas cards arrived with money in. Always.

In my 20's i developed a new relationship with him and we get on great now. He's a brilliant grandad. But one thing i know for sure is that he was still thinking of me, still loving me, still wanting me. But my own teen angst was in the way.

I know it still in the gullet the ingratitude, but please try to encourage him to keep sending, to keep trying. Then in time she cant point the finger and say he didnt care.

It's her choice peugot, she's very angry.

I think there's a big difference between turning into a Disney dad and keeping up contact and buying/sending gifts on special occasions. I'd be doing the same as you. It's hard when you've been treated badly by a step-child - I've had my fair share of that, but we're through that and have a wonderful relationship now - but if you're feeling like you'd be a bitch not to get her something then I think that tells you something.

I know you say there's been no explanation, but do you have any inkling what may be the problem?

The "keep the contact open" thing can only work though, if the "child" is willing. Of my 3 steps, the youngest had the most allowances made in terms of behaviour. Mine didn't speak or even look at me for the first 6 months of my marriage to her dad. For years, I and dh just tried to go with the flow. I wrote to her telling her, there was no reason we couldn't "get on" and how welcome she was and was there anything special she'd like to eat/buy/do. How lovely she always looked when she'd bought some new item of clothing etc etc.

However now, years later, she apparently detested me. Her dad "changed" and abandoned his kids for me!!! My eldest 2 steps find this laughable. When I first moved in, I was apparently "not motherly" toward her and therefore, I have no rights where she is concerned! Dh tried calmly to reiterate that it would have been absurd for me, his new wife, to come over all motherly in view of the fact that she couldn't even bring herself to acknowledge I existed. When I was sat 3 feet from her. IT WAS AWFUL.

Dh's dd is punishing him I think, for having another "woman" in his life. For having the audacity to have moved on after his (then) wife's affair.

It's all terribly unfair and I (now) dislike this young woman enormously.

Eliza our situations are more-or-less identical; I know it's not me that DSD resents, but what I represent.

Does your DSD know about her mums affair that ended her parents marriage? My DSD does - and has admitted she resents her mum for it; my presence is a constant reminder that her mum isn't perfect, and she blames me and DP for that

Yes, NADM....she does know. Though she was too young to know, at the time. The affair, though lengthy, ended eventually but by all accounts, the ex behaved appallingly toward dh. He's such a lovely man. But it's as though he was meant to "pine" for his lost marriage forever. I was "acceptable" as a girlfriend but when it was obvious we were going to marry, well....that wasn't part of the deal.

Youngest sd has thrown it at us a few times, how dad's "abandoned" them. Firstly, it's not true and secondly (and I would never say this, obviously) their mum DID abandon them, their home, their dad, their very comfortable lifestyle, their 20 yr relationship together in order to conduct her affair for over 2 yrs. It feels like I WAS THE OW and broke up their home when I came along yearsblater. It's actually quite ludicrous. Bloody hell, I'm rambling again!

Having been the DD in a similar scenario, please don't give up on her or the presents. At 13, behaving like this, she might be feeling all kinds of conflict. Who knows what her mum is telling her, and at some point in the next couple of years she might suddenly need or miss her dad, so it's important you keep that door open. She's really young, it's too early for her to know if she wants this to e a permanent state, so you both need to make it possible for her to get back in touch with no resentment from you.

NomNom it's unrealistic to expect SM not to resent the pain a DSC causes a parent and family by rejecting them.
My DSD has reduced my DD to tears through her selfish and thoughtless actions - and then blamed DP for 'making her feel bad' when he tried to talk to her about it. I've seen my DP in pieces after DSD has publicly rejected him, and DSS is scared to death of her as she bullies and picks on him.

Why wouldn't I dislike a person who deliberately hurts people I love?

She knows that her behaviour is unacceptable - and manages to be sweetness and light to people from whom she gains, like DPs family who continue to buy her affection with material things. The school reports that are sent to DP refer to a helpful, compassionate, friendly young woman - not a child who swears about her Dad on Facebook and refuses to acknowledge my existence.

Yes, I know that she is the victim of her mums behaviour - she has been exposed to totally inappropriate information and emotions, but at what age can DCs begin to be held accountable for their actions?
Should we excuse DSD mum the badmouthing and bashing she has exposed the DSC to because she went through the same thing when she was a child? Does a lousy upbringing give a DC a 'get out of jail free' card for life? Or should DP, as a parent, begin to expose his DD to the realities of life - if you treat people badly, they won't favour you and you'll miss out.

If DSD ever returns to DPs life, I will do everything I can to overcome my own feelings and welcome and accept her - but that will be for DP; not for one moment will I be motivated by my own desire to 'like' her.

I agree NADM. There comes a point where, a person needs to learn that other people "mirror" you. My youngest was resentful, verbally abusive and manipulative. She is an adult, or young adult now. She's not a little girl and what you give out in life, comes right back at you.

Dh knows and supports the fact that for me at least, there will need to be a big shift in attitude and an apology before I turn myself inside out, to welcome her again.

No, treating other children and step-parents like that is clearly not ok, and children/teenagers need to learn that. But while treating one's parents like that is not ok either, they are supposed to love their own children unconditionally, ie take up the relationship again and forgive, though not necessarily without a talk about how the nastiness hurt people.

Of course the bad-mouthing parent is not excused, influencing the child's relationship with the other parent to such an extent is very damaging and most parents ought to know better. No one gains anything when children are turned into pawns.

Nevertheless, the bad-mouthed parent needs to be the bigger person here as being a teenager is rubbish enough as it is. It needs to be clear that support will always be there.

A perpetual cycle was created in our home with DSD for a few months - she would be deliberately nasty/rude/unpleasant to me or DD, I would withdraw, DP would parent her and highlight why her behaviour had the effect that it did, which she didn't like so she would appeal to her mum, who reinforced her belief that I was the problem and her Dad had chosen me over her, so next time we saw her, she was nasty/rude/unpleasant, and so it went on until she eventually refused to come.

I reinforced her negative opinion by declining a FB friends invite from her the day after she gave her Dad the ultimatum that she would not see him all the while I was in his life, and again a few weeks later when she demanded by text that I buy her Dad a gift on her behalf, wrap and label it from her.
Perhaps if I had accepted that FB request, or bought that gift, she and DP would not be estranged - but what would her expectations of me be? That I will continue to support her regardless of her treatment if me? Perhaps she was too young; but she had been given the responsibility by the court as to whether or not she wanted to see her Dad, so expecting respect and good manners didn't seem like a lot to ask

I'm with your DH on this one and our own situation is scarily similar. We have chosen not to buy her presents from us, but still send nicely worded cards to remind her that our door is still open to her if/ when she chooses and that DH loves her very much and always will do. We also ensure we buy her a 'little something' from our DS just as we would have done before, as it's not his argument to have. We also send presents from DH's family home for her, though she never thanks them and neither does her mum ask her to. For us it's not about saving money at all (and in fact we are still putting aside the equivalent cash we would normally spend on presents for her and if she comes back and the relationship stands the test of time, she'll get that cash to help her through uni or buy a car or whatever, though she doesn't know that) it's about not reinforcing what is an unacceptable behaviour/ attitude towards her dad. If my DH is not good enough to maintain a relationship with, then he should not feel obliged to reward that attitude. Quite aside from anything else, she never appreciated the things we bought her before (her mum and step dad always got her more expensive presents, making ours look pretty cheap and theirs more desirable) so we're certainly not going to waste money on them now so they can sit in a cupboard gathering dust, or in the rubbish bin. If and when she does return she'll appreciate the money more i think.

Thanks, it's nice to know we're not alone in this.

I'm still not sure about my feelings. Part of me tells me to get a grip and stop being mean, the other says i'm totally justified in the way I feel.

I've only got one friend in RL who has the experience of step families and they have no problems at all so it's quite difficult to talk to her sometimes, although she has given good advise. Her step son is a lovely boy.

Matana - really? I know it's not easy for you, but surely sending a gift from your DS with HER father just says 'I have a new child now, he spends lots of time with me, but I don't care about you anymore because you have been replaced'.