AIBU that this 'Disney' fathering is doing no good? (sorry, long)

[FjordMor]

Fairly new to this board and I'm a step-mother of 2 tween girls (12 & 10) who are with us every Tuesday and every other weekend (in Norway). The eldest (DSD1) has just firmly become a teen with constant raging hormones, tantrums and tears. Both accept me and like me. We recently told them that I am expecting their little brother/sister; the youngest was happy and the eldest seemed positive yet responded with 2 days of hysterical tears bemoaning everything from 'she hadn't told her friends about me even yet - how embarrassing to have to own up to both a stepmother and a baby' to 'now we won't even have a proper summer holiday because she (me) will want to be going to the loo all the time'. DP spent hours cuddling her and being 'very very sorry' for all these things. This has died down now and is not the point (just some background).

I feel that DP is still living the guilty 'Disneyland Dad' thing after several years (although he's thankfully stopped buying them stuff all the time and trying to make every weekend 'the best' - we even holidayed in Disneyland Paris last year which nearly crippled us financially - no joke) and it's driving me nuts as I'm terrified he won't be able to cooperate with the stricter rules and less indulging environment I want our child to be brought up in.

For example, tonight, after seeming fine with me for several hours before he got home from work, DSD1 turned on the tears etc when he got in from work saying she had had a vaccination at school that day and passed out (before he came home I had heard her saying to her sister how much she didn't want to go to school tomorrow). We had her drinking water and he gave her a lot of cuddles & comfort. We had always planned pancakes and soup for dinner tonight as we're desperately short of money and both girls love pancakes & eat them at least once a week. All of a sudden he was saying that apparently she now 'doesn't like' pancakes or soup and now, since she feels headachey and delicate (she has her period btw) she 'needs' a pizza so, he was going to walk up the road to buy her a pizza, that we can't afford, to 'make her feel better'. I feel he is being totally played. This child eats EVERYTHING and is not fussy and we had lots of other things in the house but apparently only a pizza could help her headache. Of course then it was the wrong pizza, she didn't eat it and cried a LOT more and yelled at her father to which DP cuddled her and kept saying how sorry he was he had bought the 'wrong' pizza while I seethed inside at her revolting 'entitled' behaviour and his sycophancy. Of course now, later, she has eaten pancakes and is now demanding, with more tears, that she should be allowed popcorn as she has 'only had pancakes tonight!'. (she eventually agreed to some bread & nutella and DP jumped up and told her to sit down, he'd make it for her) . However, of course, I just sit silently on the sidelines as I can't 'interfere' with anything in front of the kids so I have to raise my concerns to him later and privately (and I get 'yes darling, of course darling, you're so right darling' stonewalling). I don't get it. I remember at only a few months older that DSD1 passing out when I had my ears pierced. Nobody cuddled me for hours or darted out to buy me my favourite choice of meal. I remember we just had a little laugh at me and how daft that was and I took it easy for a few hours. But perhaps I am being too hard on her and she is suffering from some kind of anxiety disorder?

How can I make him see that he is mostly victim to manipulative, entitled behaviour and his indulging of it and waiting on them hand and foot is not helping anything and just increasing the incidences of it as they 'play' him? He just says what kind of monster am I? If his girls are upset he has to do everything to comfort them, whatever it takes. If he's going to behave like this all the time now because he feels so 'guilty' about our baby and that he left their lives (I was not the cause, he and their mother had a dreadful, incredibly dysfunctional relationship & I only came into his life after their legal separation - not meeting the girls until we were both sure this was a long term, stable thing) I'm not sure I can cope with it. Some days I end up longing for separate houses as I feel I just can't be around this horrific spoiling and tantrumy, entitled behaviour. Then I feel selfish and rotten as I know it's bloody hard for kids whose parents split up and I'm worried that the baby news might have been a destabilising adjustment for them but I'm sure spoiling them by giving them control and their own way out of guilt is NOT the answer. I'm all for lots of love and reassurance but also boundaries, consequences and 'this is what's for dinner, eat it or don't'; treats sometimes but daily life is daily life & each day cannot be manipulated to exactly what they want. I have to live with their behaviour but I get no say how our (tiny) budget is being spent or what kind of behaviour is and isn't ok in what is also my own home and end up being the bad guy in their eyes (because when he does agree to say no, he always tells them it was because I said) and in his eyes. Am I being unreasonable and selfish? Anyone?

No, you are definitely not being unreasonable or selfish - and your relationship is at serious risk if things do not change; the statistics of how many "second" relationships fail when DC's from previous marriages are involved is as high as 80% .

It doesn't sound like you pregnancy and the imminent arrival of a step-sibling is the trigger for your DP becoming "Mickey Mouse" to his DC's - I'm assuming this is something that is well established? The longer it has been a way of life, the harder it is to resolve as both the DC's and your DP will resist you "changing" anything.

If your DP has already mastered the art of saying all the right things but not changing anything, then I would suggest that you may have to "act" in order to get his attention.
Can you split your finances so that you are no longer financing your DSC disney lifestyle? Can you spend time with family/friends rather than be at home when the DSC stay? Can you explore plans to raise your DC alone if you have to?

Some step-mums find the only way of getting their DP's attention in this situation is to actually leave, and then put boundaries and limits in place before they move back in. It is extreme, but it has saved relationships. It is certainly something that will get worse over time, and with your own DC due soon - the impact it has on you, and your relationship, will increase

Thanks notadisneymum. I don't think we'll be splitting up as we're pretty tight. To be fair, he often does make changes because I say so (although he often says 'I didn't buy them the thing because you told me not to').I just wish I could make him understand that it's not just 'because I say so' but because it is actually better for them and his long term relationship with them. He has changed a lot of things since we met and we don't have joint finances so I do refuse to pay for anything that I don't think is appropriate or necessary.

I get on with the girls and I want to provide them with the consistency that I am around and a stable thing in their life rather than being out all the time. I just wish sometimes that Supernanny did teen programmes as DP watches the ones with toddlers and is affected by the 'reason' that you need to have rules and boundaries to create security and improve behaviour.

I don't believe it will get worse over time as it has got about 70% better since we first moved in together and he has learned a lot and taken some big cues from me but I worry that the girls are learning how to manipulate him sometimes and he feels unable to take a 'hard' stance due to deep, underlying guilt about 'abondoning' them and that this will lead to very rebellious and hard to manage older teenage behaviour unless he sets a precedent now and will sometimes accept that teenage girls (his teenage girls) are and will be dishonest and manipulative. My main concern is that the eldest is 'using' drama-queenish behaviour and floods of tears to get what she wants (especially when she is hormonal) and that he takes drying her tears, at whatever cost, as his personal responsibility as I guess deep down he feels that she may have become 'unstable' because of the marriage split and my baby news. It's how to put across to him that he can give her lots of cuddles but he doesn't have to meet demands for food/gifts/privileges in that context as the more this strategy 'works' for DSD1 the more often now the tearful tantrums are coming and the greater the demands springing from them are becoming.

Rasputin do you consider the OPs DSD to be justified in her behaviour about her new half-sibling?
Is it usual for teenage girls to be ashamed of their SM to the point of denying their existence?

She has openly sought sympathy from her Dad because she believes that she will be inconvenienced and embarrassed by her SM pregnancy. Overlooking for a moment the narcissistic element to that behaviour, isn't it Dads job to reassure his daughter, rather than apologise for it?

I'm not surprised the OP is upset. How many parents apologise to one child for the existence of a younger sibling?

IME reacting in that way to your pregnancy is fairly typical...your DSD now has to tell her friends that her dad has sex and not even with her mum, so he's now had sex with two people, lol

she's bang on the right age for that to bother her...so it's fine for you and her dad to empathise with that, it's in all likelihood got nothing to do with having a future sibling and just because she's thinking ew they did 'it'

That's absolutely not the same as buying her things because she's upset...you don't buy a toddler a sweety because they're on the floor screaming at you because their banana broke, what he's doing is no different to that.

A bit of a hug and sympathy is fine, giving her things just leads to her being upset everytime she wants something.

My DD is 12 if I bought her something every time she cried I'd be bankrupt, she used to be so cheery as well...

Whoah rasputin. I thank you for your insightful presumptions. We are obviously poles apart in our views on parenting and what is right or not right for kids.

Quite aside from notadisneymum's very good point (thank you :)) about him feeling the need to apologise for my existence I would like to point out that I'm not jealous at all. I'm very glad that my stepkids have a loving father that gives them lots of support and cuddles. I am very happy he's a 'hands-on' affectionate father in fact, it is one of the things that most attracted me to him as I also had a great father & I feel secure in my relationship - I'm not looking for a parent in DP and I'm very happy that I get to be part of a family with these 2 girls. When we have them I step aside and encourage DP to give his time to them, not me and I act in a supportive role - cooking for everyone, ferrying them around in the car and helping them with the odd girly hair crisis. If I see either DSD looking genuinely upset, I encourage him to approach them and see if they're ok and give them a bit of love (often he doesn't notice or percieve that they might be upset unless they burst into tears). I spend quality 'girly' time with the girls and we have a laugh together. They know full well I have their needs at heart. I am relaxed with my place in the family. The poor things don't see him most of the time - I have huge empathy for their situation and try to maximise the amount of attention they receive when they are here.

Since you know nothing about my life as a teen it seems a bit odd that you would jump to such an ill-informed conclusion about how it was for me! Actually my mother 'smothered' me with protection; super-comforting me if other kids teased me - going up the school to complain about them and 'protect' me and it made me very ill-equipped to deal with things in an adult way - very socially shy and with no confidence or backbone of my own to take into adulthood. You can kill with kindness and sometimes a balance of love, cuddles and support and encouraging a child to roll back up again and putting things into perspective for them, with support, is the better strategy, from my experience...certainly not associating their tantrums with giving them everything they want and care to ask for (and that they would not normally be allowed). How is that helping other than teaching them that floods of tears and tantrums 'work' if they want to get something/their own way?

Implying I 'resent' the DSDs because my 'house rules have to be inflexible' is very far from the case. I'm far from an 'anal housekeeper' compared to most women. The DSDs are required to do absolutely no chores other than tidy their room a bit when their father deems it necessary (sporadically) and I have nothing to say about this - it's up to him if he feels they should be contributing or not. Perhaps I am being too 'inflexible' in finding it a stretch too far that they are allowed to throw used make-up wipes on the floor or draped all over the bathroom instead of putting them in a bin right by the sink; step out of their clothes and underwear wherever they feel like in the house and just leave them there on the floor, whatever room they're in (usually middle of the sitting room or right in front of the loo - we can never have people round); not bother to flush faeces down the loo (we only have one loo/bathroom) and graffiti their names all over the furniture that we've bought for them and the walls of our (rented) flat and perhaps I should tacitly accept that it is my job to pick up after them? Perhaps as a parent or step-parent I should just 'tolerate' this sort of thing because after all, children turn into much better adults with no boundaries right? And nearly 12 and nearly 13 is waaaaay too young to start learning responsibility, right?

My concern is purely that DP is setting up a rod for his own back, encouraging dysfunctional behaviour and manipulation and parenting in a way that is at odds with his ex-wife and therefore chaotic for the girls. I am always encouraging him to agree rules/boundaries with his ex-wife so they have consistency of parenting in both their homes (something he feels loathe to do - wanting to encourage the girls that he is the 'nice' parent without 'rules' which I don't feel is right for the girls and is not ok with his ex-wife also). I go along with & support the parental rules as that is my only remit and my chief concern is that he do what's right for the girls and not be led by his sense of guilt.

Or perhaps the only problem here is that I 'need to relax' and stop caring about how these kids turn out??

Or perhaps the only problem here is that I 'need to relax' and stop caring about how these kids turn out??

In disneydad situations, that is sometimes the only option - disengage, and accept that their parents are responsible for how they turn out.
However, the lack of boundaries and respect in your own home is something I wouldn't be able accept -especially if/when there are younger children in the house.....does your DP take responsibility for clearing after them and repairing the damage they cause, or does that fall to you?

Sadly, many non-resident fathers will go to ANY length to ensure they are the ?popular parent.? This usually boils down to one of two issues (or a mixture of both): (1) They want to pander to their child?s every whim as some sort of ?compensation? for their parents? divorce; and (2) they?re so terrified that Princess Step Daughter won?t want to visit any more unless she gets everything her own way.

Mix the two together, and it?s a highly complex, emotive situation and the fear of losing favour with the child over-rides any common sense the man may have.

So I don?t think the OP is being jealous or unreasonable, she?s simply reacting, as many of us do, to the insane parenting (or lack of) that she witnesses. The frustration of sharing a home with a child with who?s treated like royalty instead of a teenager can be hard to deal with and I?m pleased the OP has posted ? it?s good to get it off your chest.

But NADM makes an excellent point ? sometimes the only option is to disengage ?Lord give me the strength to accept the things I cannot change ???.? But I personally find that disengaging means I internalise the frustration, and that?s not healthy. I can only turn a blind eye for so long before I lose my temper.

Eurgh, don't justify yourself Fjord. There will always be people with different ideas and opinions and one of the benefits of MN is that we can receive these whereas we may not in real life because people don't always speak their mine. If someone reads your post and has an alternative point of view I'm sure you'd welcome it.

However, there will always be ill-informed people who will jump on to any post in Step Parenting and make a load of wild assumptions based on absolutely nothing other than their own insecurities or something they read in a Disney book. Just ignore.

tabulahrasa makes a good point. If my DD is sad or worried I give her a big cuddle and make some time for her so we can snuggle up on the sofa with a film, do some baking or go and visit a friend I know she likes - something like that. I don't buy her things.

Yet it has always been the assumption that my DH should put his hand in his pocket to keep his DD happy if she is displeased. Very weird way of looking at the parenting role. Petal is spot on - whether it's out of guilt or fear - it's not good.

I personally find that disengaging means I internalise the frustration, and that?s not healthy. I can only turn a blind eye for so long before I lose my temper.

Practical disengaging is a lot easier to achieve than emotional disengaging - but sometimes, it is necessary for a SM to come to terms with the fact that their DSC are being damaged or set up to fail, and there is very little that they can do about it, because they have no influence over the DSC life.

I have reached the point where my DSC's behaviour, aspirations, grades and reputation are of no concern to me. Initially, I embraced my role as a SM, welcomed my DP's invitations to attend school events, showed interest in their school reports, and shared in DP's pride in their achievements. At that time, I was emotionally invested because I believed I was an influence in their lives.

It has taken a lot of set backs, hurt, rejection and counselling to reach a point where I can support my DP in his position as their Dad, but purely as an objective observer, not as a participant. If DP shows me DSD school report, I will view it objectively - comment if I am asked, such as "it's good that she has progressed two grades in X" but I don't get frustrated because she clearly isn't making an effort in her independent learning, for instance. If I go along to DSS school play, I get enjoyment from watching a group of DC's participate and achieve. The fact that one of them is DSS is incidental to me, rather than my emotional focus.

I realise to some, this may seem the ultimate in wickedness - a validation of everything that a SM has been portrayed as for generations. But it has been the only way to protect myself from the emotional battering that my particular step-situation has subjected me to. There are times when I look at the close, natural relationship that DP has with my DD and wish that I could have that with his DC's too. But I can't imagine that is ever going to happen.

what has helped is that DP and I have reached a point where we can discuss with each other our individual parenting styles without getting defensive or taking it personally. I can ask DP why he made a particular decision in relation to DSS, and he knows that I am not asking because I disagree, but because I want to understand his thought processes, decision making and values. It has taken a while to get to this point, though, and it hasn't been easy

I can usually disengage from the practical things, eg if DSS 'forgets' to empty the bath, DH will rush in and do it for him, rather than get DSS away from his computer to make him do it. Which is insane, but I let them get on with it. But what really riles me, is that I'm allowed to do all the domestic elements of parenting, but have no 'right to vote' with the bigger stuff. It's like I'm a fully paid up member of the team if cooking, cleaning and laundry are required, but when there are decisions to be made, i'm suddenly relegated to the subs bench.

I think you're right - sometimes good parenting is behaving in a way that , in the moment, makes a child unhappy. Your DSD may not be acting in a way that is any more entitled or manipulative than any other child her age - she is just acting in a way that requires an adult to point out where the boundaries are - whether that makes her happy or not.

However...

I think you can 'indulge' drama queenish behaviour and give somebody a hug and plenty of time, and still say "yes, I really sympathise, when you have cleaned up the bathroom, lets make pancakes together and I'll tell you all my injection horror stories", instead of spending the same amount of time rushing out to the shops for pizza.

If your DSD is being 'manipulative', having read 30 million child care books (honestly - that many!), I would say that it may be that she is pushing your DH to see how far he will go - how horrible can I be before I push him away? It is far more reassuring to be the rock that stays still than the pile of mashed potato he is currently emulating.

So anyway, my conclusion is cuddling a child for hours is absolutely fine but allowing that child to operate outside the laws of maths (i.e. we have no money for pizza) or to treat another person as a servant (you) is wrong and not in their interests.

I really appreciate all your posts. I had hoped to hear from the benefit of other's experiences. I know DP is by no means the first to behave this way. I guess I should be very grateful that he is willing to listen to me some of the time and challenge his own 'knee-jerk' reactions when he's feeling strong. My 'knee-jerk control' is usually better when I'm not swimming in pregnancy hormones wickedestsminthewest .

tabulahrasa - we cross-posted but that's a good angle I hadn't actually thought of. She was still up when the 'Tudors' was on at her grandparents the other day and during a bit of a rumpy scene she started saying 'ewww yuck!'. I guess I forgot about the 'Papa & SM have sex - yuck' component of it! . And you hit the nail on the head. I'm not saying that the upset, comforting & empathising is unnecessary, far from it, but that DP needs to realise the point at which it turns into an opportunity for manipulation and not set a precedent.

NADM - again, you hit the nail on the head. Up to a point I am willing to disengage and do but when the family's (fragile) finances are at stake and feeling like I have no control in my own home sometimes is hard to deal with. Traditionally it is me who has to clear up after them (because he doesn't 'notice') although these days I usually call him to the bathroom and say...'look' and then he says 'yes, sorry' - like he did it, and starts picking everything up (and I get to feel like 'the bad guy'). Sometimes, when he's feeling really strong, he calls the girls in and gets them to do it and tells them why and that it's not acceptable. I am exceptionally proud of him in those moments and always give him lots of praise but I worry that he is completely inconsistent and he struggles to get their respect. I can see why you have reached the level of disengagement you have in your situation. I'm sorry you've been through such a lot. Step-parenting is not an easy road and the emotional disengagement must have been hard. Contrary to what a lot of people believe, I think the instinct is to care about your SCs as if they're your own and it must be really hard to step away from having a vested interest in how they're getting on. I constantly have to take a step back and learn when to keep my opinions to myself. It's almost like I have to hide/suppress my emotional investment whilst at the same time wanting them to know how much I care about them.

Petal02 - I totally agree with your assessment. I'm always trying to support DP and persuade him that his DDs worship him and that a few rules and a few sayings of 'no' will not make them not want to come around. He has got a lot more assertive at saying no but DSD1 has recently found his weak spot - tears, which, with her burgeoning hormones, come pretty easy these days. I feel sorry for her that everything is so upsetting - I do remember being a teen and I'm glad she shares her feelings with DP...You're right about internalised frustration, and it has made me feel a lot better to share it on here :).

wickedestsminthewest - It's so frustrating DP feels the need to buy as well as cuddle. He's such a good parent in terms of empathy, understanding & physical affection. These kids are swimming in love. Their parents fundamentally didn't get on but both give the girls a lot of love, time and attention. It is the growing sense of 'entitlement' due to 'demand-spoiling' & lack of boundaries that is starting to really sadden me - they are 2 otherwise wonderful girls and it's hard to see that side to them growing.

I'm definitely on a big learning curve of balancing feeling like a family with learning how and when I should and shouldn't take a big step back; what things I just have to swallow & what things I have a 'right' to speak up about.

merrymouse - that's almost exactly what I think. And I agree - I think a 'rock' with rules they stick to makes one feel far more secure than someone who sends mixed and confusing messages to you by their behaviour towards you. (:) liked your 'pile of mashed potato' analogy ).

Petal02 - I hear you on the decisions thing. Perhaps I should take a leaf out of your book and be just happy if DP runs in the bathroom and picks up the wipes!

Yup! I had some of the exact same situations with DSD. We even had the mysterious 'vaccination reaction'. ;) Seriously, the situation you describe is very much what I encountered with DSD when she was about 14. My DH did all the same things you have described, too.

In our case, things have gotten much better (we have been together about four years now). But it took a lot of work just getting DH to the point where he could take action on things (and this dynamic with DSD is still the source of most of our arguments). We saw a counsellor (I made it a pre-condition before we all lived togther as a family), and that helped initially - I think for DH, the penny only dropped when he heard himself talking to an objective third party. As things started to change, DH got positive reinforcement from friends and family members who commented on the changes they saw, and that was a big help (although I do wonder why those people could not have spoken up sooner to point some of the problems out to DH!). Honestly, though, it has been an incredible amount of work, and I feel that the process has dominated my life now for 4 years, to the point where it has affected every other area of my life - my friendships, my work, my health, my relationships with my own family...

Disengagement has never been a real option for me - the kids live with us full-time, and I have to be (and yes, very much want to be!) involved in their lives and upbringing. DH and I also have a baby DD, so there is another child to think about. I feel strongly that I have a 'right' to be involved in all the decisions and choices which directly affect my life, DD's life, or our family life. I have had to compromise on many things, and I accept that that is my reality. But I won't martyr myself or my DD, and like you say, it is a constant struggle figuring out where the lines are. And that part actually doesn't seem to get easier as we grow closer as a family - the more I care for the kids, the harder it gets.

how about having him read this? it would take many conversations to get this much ground covered.

Thanks Hansiemom - you're probably right. He does know I've written on Mumsnet about 'step-parenting stuff' and he was looking over my shoulder while I was writing the other day. I will certainly be tempted to show him this thread the next time an issue arises. I do think that might be a good idea.

brdgrl - it's encouraging to hear that things do get better with work. Of course my DSDs aren't with me full time - I'm not surprised the process has felt like it has dominated your life! I have often cried 'Counsellor!' at DP and lo and behold he always seems to start pulling things together when he thinks it will come to that. I won't hesitate to take that step if these issues persist without improvement.