I'm irrelevant to DSS

[Imanonperson]

I don't know whether this is a problem or not - I don't even know if I am as bothered as I think I ought to be, but basically DSS(6) can get through most of a contact weekend (or even holiday) with the barest of acknowledgements that I exist, and that's only if DH presses him to answer a question or be polite.

I'm not overly effusive with DSS as I sense that would make him feel uncomfortable but I do make sure he feels welcome at our place and fully part of the family (two other DC at home). DH is really supportive and does pick up when there is blatant rudeness, but that's pretty rare - I'm normally just ignored eg he will run straight past me in the hall and not make eye contact, has to be told to say goodnight to me, ask DH for a drink when DH is busy and I'm free and happy to do it.

DSS used to play really nicely with the other DC (one step, one half) but is leaning ever further towards just wanting to spend time with his dad and the other DC are picking up on it. Obviously it's difficult for him being between two homes but, because of circumstances, he actually has quite a lot more one-on-one time with his dad than the other DC so we can't deal with any insecurity by giving him even more time and attention. (I do try chatting with him, doing activities etc but it is clear he is only answering/joining in because he knows he has to and is just going through the motions - slightly soul-destroying for me tbh).

Has anyone else experienced this as a phase? Any tips on dealing with it? There doesn't seem to be any actual bad feeling on his part so I don't know if we should challenge it or not.

Given that you asked me whether I would except a diagnosis of anxiety/PAS or explored allergy tested first, I would have a child allergy tested. It's not invasive (DS has had it done) and I would want to explore all possible physical causes of chonic stomach before I sought a far more problematic diagnosis of PAS. Again this is simply a difference of opinion and approach.

No one has mentioned a diagnosis of PAS, Parental Alienation Syndrome - except you. It has not yet, as far as I know, been recognised as a syndrome in the UK, therefore cannot be diagnosed. It is a very controversial term which is subject to a lot of debate and disagreement.

However, parental alienation, on the other hand, is a literal term. It refers to the partial, or full, rejection of a parent/step-parent by a child. My interpretation of the OP is that the DC in question has partially rejected his SM, and therefore that is an appropriate phrase to use in this situation. Badmouthing by another parent or relative is one reason for alienation. There are others. In all cases, no matter what the cause, the child will benefit from a solution that addressed the underlying cause for rejection of the parent/step-parent.

My DSS counselling was never intended to "seek a diagnosis" of PAS. That cannot be achieved in the UK. It was to address the anxiety that had been diagnosed by the GP, based on a catalogue of symptoms. I question the motives of any parent who decides that a GP's diagnosis is incorrect, that their child does not have an emotional/mental condition, and instead seeks a pathological diagnosis as an alternative. In any event, a child who is chronically unwell with a pathological condition would surely benefit from counselling, as well? Child counselling is child-led. The sessions address what the child wishes to talk about, not what the parent demands the counsellor finds out - that is the domain of other professions.

I do stand by my comments that your DD will be taking in moans and less favourable comments you make about her SM. Perhaps they will do not harm, perhaps they will. Who knows. As a mum myself , I am never anything but positive about my DD's SM. I may be over cautious in your opinion, but I have seen the damage that unguarded words can do in some cases, and I am not prepared to take that risk with my own DD.

So I should continue to have myself and my dds life made miserable every other weekend in order for my dsd to know that "I'm there for her whatever" well I'm not. My child comes first oddly enough and as I spent four years taking all if dsd and her mums rubbish on the chin if she now wants to claim that "see, I told you your stepmum was a negligent bitch" then good luck to her. If they were true colours I couldn't have masked them for four years
And thank you for pointing out that all mums don't hate stepmums but as most of the stepmums on here have children with stepmums who they are respectful of and don't bad mouth, it's not really necessary.

I really don't think it's worth my while replying to the above. Can see your perspective. but can also see your step child's may well be different. As you say you have yourself, your DD and your relationship with your partner to consider first. as you say you are not there for your DSD regardless.

I hope the OP is able to work on her relationship with her step child without blaming it's failure on the mother.

sorry instead of failure read difficulties. certainly not saying the relationship has failed in any way shape or form

Op, I hope you get a resolution to your issue, as you can see from the debate some of us have experience of parental alienation. If this is the root cause then you can get some help and support for your situation.

Hi all, I'm back and very grateful for the different perspectives.

In some ways, I don't actually think that it matters whether I am getting bad press from DSS's mother. I know she would never say a positive word about me (conversely I always make sure that I say to DSS that I hope he has a lovely week/fortnight with his mother whenever he leaves us and try to show an interest in what he does during this time) but equally I don't think any negativity would be at a serious level. IF it is happening though, I have to accept that there is nothing I can do about that and to create a positive attitude at our home for DSS - in that I think everyone is agreed.

However, I do (perhaps, "did" would be more accurate) always go to him for goodnight kisses, pick up any requests for help that DH didn't immediately respond to, show affection etc but was concerned that the situation was actually getting worse and therefore didn't want to continue with an approach that was possibly making DSS feel uncomfortable - whether because of misplaced guilt, pressure from mother, general preference for dad or just actually not liking me...

I guess it's a question of how much to force the issue. I'll see how things go this weekend and discuss with DH as we go along. In the meantime, I consider myself very lucky that we have not had to face the same level of difficulty or distress that some of you have experienced. That must be unbelievably hard to deal with . Here's hoping we all come out the other side stronger, wiser and happier!

Sorry, took so long typing that I x-posted with Smum. It is good to know that there are people to turn to if it is looking like there is an issue with parental alienation. My gut feel is that this isn't the case, but I guess reasons can become more obvious as DSC get older and can express their views better. Then hopefully I'll know whether there is an issue at DSS's mum's or if I am not as likeable as I'd hoped!!

It sounds lie your doing the absolutely the right thing I couldn't agree more when you said "I have to accept that there is nothing I can do about that and to create a positive attitude at our home for DSS".

I wouldn't ever force the issue but by the same token I would still be going to him for goodnight kisses. I found the following useful for my Ds with Asd Sometimes he's happy for a kiss someimes he isn't. I ask for the kiss and if he's not willing that night blow him one, and tell him I loved him. That way I never forced anything on him that he wasn't comfortable with but still showed him I love him.

DH can help. (He is also DSS parent). gentle encouragement can go a long way. If we work on the premise that your DSS wants to please parents, it's important to remember he has too and your DP attitude can make all the difference.

I did want to say your are in no way irrelevant to your step child. Mums are special, your the nearest thing to one when he's with you.

Ima - at the start of my relationship with dp I thought that dss' mum wouldn't say anything nasty about me but I was so very wrong. She treated me with distain from the word go & acted as if I was the reason for the breakdown of her marriage (I met dp 2 years after she left him). Even if she didn't say anything directly to dss her actions clearly indicated that everything was MY fault & that I was trying to take her place in his affections. Conversely as he got older her whole approach changed & she decided to try to be my best friend - like hell that was ever going to happen!!!!!! If we do ever meet now I'm civil to her but thats as much as I can manage.

I think you do need to talk to your DP about this problem - he may not have noticed any change (mine didn't) & have no idea how you feel. I do feel your pain though - there is nothing like the feeling of rejection you get when you try to make conversation with someone & they just ignore you or give one word answers.

Good luck & I hope everything works out for you.

I guess I flew off a bit there but it is a sore subject with me and there are a lot of people who just ride it out hoping that things will change and end up with a completely detiriorated relationship with thei rchildren - which ultimately affects the child more than anyone.

I don't think that unconditional love for a stepchild is at all common actually, Lunar so I hvae no guilt over saying that I am not there for DSD no matter what Although for the first three or so years I certainly played the part and convinced myself that it could exist. Somewhere during the furth year it became apparent that I was spreading myself extremely thinly across my DD, my Partner, my friends, family, not to mention my career which was putting food on the table for DSD and paying for the holidays that she was "entitled" to. And I thought hang on, I'm not having my life ruined because her mother is putting her own insecurities above the well being of her child and is unable to manage the basic courtesy of not slagging off the person who is the closet thing as a mother to her precious DD when she isn't there.

Sorry iamoneperson smum gives much more level headed advice. Do some reading around PA and if your instincts are right then that is great. If you do feel that some of the info rings true to you - seek some support. I wouldn't know about PA if it wasn't for MN and my DP and I would still be utterly baffled as to what the hell has happened to our family

Hi WSM, I'm just a little further down the line so sometimes it's easier to deal with but I recall how I felt during that time and it was a horrid emotional time. Your story would have been helpful to me at the time so I think it's useful share experiences.

Just to clarify for maybe other out there in similar situations - if it's alienation then it can be dealt with - it's not ideal and not easy but the situation can be turned around.We have managed it - DSS and I have a good relationship and he is developing strategies to deal with negative comments about people he cares for. It's actually a good life skill so hopefully a positive outcome all round.

To get back to the OP, i read 'Raising Boys' a while ago. There's an interesting chapter in there about how boys get to an age (around 6 years i think!) when they look up to their father as a role model, to the exclusion of all others, even his mother. So, for example, you'll see six year old boys emulating their dad shaving etc. It could well be a phase that is quite common with boys. I'll find out when my DS gets there!

SMUM, I'd love to hear more about how you combatted it... Sorry to hijack OP!

WSM, I hope I haven't made it sound like we have the "fix" but I didn't want others to think that if they are dealing with parental alienation it's a hopeless cause.
In our situation we did have to confront the issue and dss told us what was being said.That was the challenging part (& still is) but once we knew what we were dealing with it was sightly easier. DH also wrote to the ex and let her know he is aware that it is happening and he highlighted how damaging it is to DSS. Whilst she has never responded positively it has managed to shine a light on her behaviour and it's no longer her secret. That alone seems to have moderated the behaviour. Previously DH let the comments slide on the basis that he knew the truth but now we deal with it. An example, ex told dss that DH was in arrears for child maintenance, it wasn't true at all. Previously DH would have avoided all monetary discussions in front of dss but this time he spoke directly to the ex whilst with dss. He checked that she was still receiving the money directly and she confirmed albeit reluctantly that it was the case.

Time has also helped as DSS is now 14 and he is forming his own opinions, he could not have done that at 8,9 or even 12. Circumstances at home have also contributed - the ex has a similar approach to her 2nd ex husband so dss has witnessed common behaviour - he has coined a phrase "misinformation" as a means of explaining when his mum doesn't quite tell the truth.

I wish I could say we have it was solved but we don't and I know that confronting it head on was the only way. Hoping it would get better on it's own or ignoring it would not have worked.

I think there are degrees of alienation and I don't think anyone can, hand on heart, say they have never made a negative comment about the other parent but there are levels and I think in DH's case it was extensive, methodical and deliberate alienation. I think it's the same for you but for others it could be a few negative comments which dc's are able to shrug off but if a child is told very a great many lies about their parent they CAN?T shrug it off and that does make them naturally withdraw from that parent.

I think that's why we have the debate here as we possibly have both ends of the scale represented.

DH also wrote to the ex and let her know he is aware that it is happening and he highlighted how damaging it is to DSS. Whilst she has never responded positively it has managed to shine a light on her behaviour and it's no longer her secret. That alone seems to have moderated the behaviour.

This has definitely been the case for us, as well - once DP stopped "taking the high ground" and ignoring the situation, but actually raised the issue with his ex, it did moderate her behaviour - although initially, it resulted in some very ugly scenes in which DP and the DSC were subject to tirades of abuse, screaming and obstructive/abusive behaviour, as she came to terms with the fact that things were no longer according to her script.

It has helped that DP's ex places a huge amount of emphasis on what others think of her, coupled with the fact that she recognised that her behaviour isn't socially acceptable - she does care what her friends, family and DC's teachers think and the only person who agrees with her behaviour is her own mum!

Another thing DP did is to exercise his PR rights in order to maintain independent relationships with DSS school, GP and even out of school clubs - so the staff know him and any lies his ex tells about him in order to try and gain support actually end up undermining her, rather than him!