Parental alienation and mediation - advice needed please

[matana]

DSD1 (14 yo) hasn't seen DH since last September and we've tried everything. A recent phone conversation with ExW culminated in her telling DSD the content of the discussion (something i gather she has always done, unknown to us until recently), after which DSD called DH to tell him she never wanted to see him again and that it was her decision so he shouldn't take it out on her mum.

We have a DS who used to enjoy a good relationship with her and still has an amazing relationship with DSD2. DS goes to CM in the same village as my DSDs and DSD1 knows she can see him at the CM if she wants to. She hasn't staken the opportunity to see him since Christmas and the final straw for me was learning that she passed our CM and DS in the street the other day and completely ignored him. He's 16 mo so doesn't know any different, but i do.

DH and I have been together for nine years and until last year i have been close to both DSDs. My question is, can parental alienation happen over time and show itself years after separation, or is it usually an immediate thing? And does anyone have any experience of family mediation to overcome this? How much does it cost, can one party make contact with the mediation service and ask them to approach the resident parent/ child? Presumably the child has to agree to mediation, which i know that DSD1 would not agree to unless forced. Any similar experiences and advice gratefully received. I want my son to have a relationship with my DSD and i hate seeing what this is doing to my wonderful DH who has always been an excellent father.

Family mediation is not designed/intended to overcome the sort of problems that you describe. Occasionally a teenager might be asked by a mediator (independent of the parents but parents have to agree) to explain his/her wishes re visitation. But this is quite unusual.
You sound like you mean some sort of family therapy or counselling. From what you have described it is extremely unlikely that your DSD1 would agree to family therapy. Of course, you cannot force her.
Indeed, you cannot really force her to see her father at all. Legally you might manage it after a long battle, but would it be worth it?
I am sure this is horrible for your husband. In a sense though what his daughter said is probably the right approach: don't take this out on her mother, or at least, don't let her mother become aware of his desire to take it out on her.

My DH doesn't want to 'take it out' on his Ex. He called her for help in the first instance in the hope that she might have some kind of influence over her daughter. If she does have any influence she is choosing not to exert it, which i suppose shouldn't surprise me going by past experience of her tactics. I know that if DH and I were separated i would make sure DS saw as much of DH as possible and would certainly step in if this were the situation as i don't believe it's healthy for a child not to have a relationship with a parent, resident or non resident. And i would consider myself to have failed in my responsibility to DS if it ever got to that stage, or if i failed to act once i realised how bad things had become.

I hope you realise that I was only using the same words spoken by your step-daughter to her father. Obviously, she feels some reason for using those words "take it out on...".

There are very many step-mothers who not only ensure that contact is maintained but are enthusiastic about it. This is beside the point though isn't it. Well unless you want to have a whinge about the ex. Fair enough but that is not going to solve this problem.

Yes, i do understand that. Sorry if i sounded defensive but i'm sure you can imagine that i would not feel quite so defensive about it had we not endured years of obstruction and felt powerless throughout.

My point about the ExW is not to whinge about her, more to illustrate that the situation we find ourselves in is extremely deep seated and seemingly hopeless, given that the only person who can really help us (i.e. DSD's mum) is not doing so. In fact, it appears she has been undermining us for a very long time and that may be responsible for our current problems!

I think the reason DSD chose those words is a reflection of seeing the adult world in a child-of-separated-parents way which is not altogether uncommon: i.e. "everything mum does/ says must be right because i must be loyal to the person who has always been there for me. Everything my dad says/ does is wrong because he left and i trust implicitly what my mum has always told me." Apparently it's a fairly common reaction in situations like this, which is why i have put 'parental alienation' in the title, because that is essentially the root of the problem.

I realise we can't force her to see him and i know a court case would be fruitless due to DSD's age. But that doesn't mean i'm going to give up trying to resolve the situation and that's why i asked about mediation. Do you have any suggestions about solving the problem? Because all i've heard until now from people is "She'll come back one day". But that doesn't help us. What if she doesn't?

If your DH and you were friends of mine, I would suggest that he writes to his daughter telling her:

that he respects her decision but he hopes she will change her mind;
that she will always be welcomed in your home with open arms;
that he loves her;
that he hopes she will continue to accept his cards/gifts at birthdays, Christmas etc.

This is what you would have to do with a friend or family member, isn't it? He has to behave like a grown-up and show by example.

matana can't post much at the moment, (at work on phone) but check out my previous posts about my DSD on this board; DP and I were where you are now about 18 months ago.

There is a lot of information and support for you via US websites - not so much in the UK.
My 30 second piece of advice would be don't assume that your DSD will get over it - ignoring it and taking the high road is the worst thing to do, ime.

I'll be on my laptop later and will post more then.

Thanks NotaDisneyMum - i've seen your posts before and was hoping you might be able to offer some advice.

We have tried everything, including the "door is open, love you" that esperence suggested. But i really don't think we're doing her or us any good just leaving it in the hope she'll come back. I know her (and her mum) and i know it's increasingly unlikely that will happen. My DH is estranged from his natural father (his father's choice) and while he has no desire to have a relationship with him because he walked out, it has definitely affected him throughout his life, despite having an excellent role model in, and relationship with, his step dad.

I've had a quick look online, but had hoped there might be some more help for parents in the UK. It just feels so hopeless that we are powerless to do anything to change it.

Get hold of a copy of the book Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak and if you can, order a copy of Come Back Pluto from his website - we put into practice his suggestions and prevented DSS being alienated in the same way as DSD has been.

I would also make contact with the Centre for Separated Families - they are doing a lot of work about alienation and have asked to hear from parents experiencing rejection by a DC

I agree with you; ignoring it won't fix it. Warshak recommends a number of approaches - DP writes to DSD regularly to keep her up to date with changes in his life - the arrival of the letters coincides with when the contact periods are scheduled. He also insisted that DSD collect her Xmas gifts sent by family and from us from our home - which has resulted in a lot of bad feeling from his family members who felt that it constituted blackmail . He remains involved in her schooling - for instance, he has requested that the school seek parental permission from both parents when written permission is required.

As SM, I would recommend disengaging from the situation - i support DP in his decisions but don't actively involve myself. I know that if DP and DSD ever establish their relationship, I will seek counselling as I struggle to overcome the resentment I feel

Thanks so much for your advice. I'll check out everything you've suggested, including suggesting to DH that he consider writing regular letters to her. DH is not very good with writing so i imagine i will have to get involved to an extent to help. I understand your resentment and even said to DH recently that even if she and DH make things right eventually, i would find it extremely difficult to forgive and forget. But part of that is tied up in her rejection of my DS - i just don't understand why she has rejected her 16 mo brother, who is innocent in all of this. Especially when she was so wonderful with him after he was born, and genuinely excited when we told them both (before anyone else, i hasten to add, because they're so important to us) that i was pregnant. From the moment i found out i was pregnant we have been at pains to demonstrate to them that we treat them all equally and that DH loves them all equally.

I feel very protective of my DS in all of this, especially when i see what a close and loving relationship he has with my other DSD. He's like her little shadow. I imagine this is all exceptionally difficult for her too and i'm angry at DSD1 for putting her through it as well (we try not to involve DSD2, but it's difficult as we want to try to be 'normal' around her - and that should include talking about her sister because she's still part of her life, even if she's not part of ours). DSD1 must be very damaged i think and i need to bear that in mind and remember i am the adult. But she has caused so much pain. She lives in a bubble with her resident family where they call their step dad "Dad" by virtue of the fact that their mum encouraged them to do so shortly after he moved in, apparently so as not to confuse his son who is autistic. They see his son at weekends and of course he is referred to as 'brother' by DSDs. It's like that is their only 'valid' family and i'm sure that has confused them immensely growing up.

Anyway, this has turned into a bit of a whinge/ rant - sorry! I think it's just reassuring to know that there's somebody else who understands where i'm coming from. I'll take a look at the Centre for Separated Families now.

How old is the youngest DSDs? I would hope that with DSD2 you have some hope. Does she ever mention the situation?

Sadly I think your situation is not that uncommon and my DH experienced something similar when the ex married. She wanted to erase DH from her life which meant she had to invalidate his role as a dad. Her 2nd marriage broke up so we are grateful that DH did fight to remain in contact as DSS would now not have a father figure in his life.

I think if you have no experience of alienation it's hard to believe that a mum would deliberately alienate a loving father and therefore the assumption is that the father and step mum MUST be at fault. However those of us who have been through this realise how easily children can be manipulated by selfish parents.

Never in my widest imagination would I have suspected that DH's ex would blatantly lie to her own child about DH, she would tell him that no child maintenance was paid, that DH left her in whilst pregnant, that DH physically bullied her in court. Nothing could have been further from the truth and it's fortunate that the ex's lies were so exaggerated and unlikely that DSS realised it couldn't be true. This has helped ward off the alienation.

I feel angry on your behalf, the girls are missing out on having their natural dad in their life whilst their mum plays 'happy' families. If you are fortunate to be the resident parent then I think you are responsible for helping your children to develop good relationship skills..What is the mum teaching the children in this situation? If as a teen you fall out with a parent then just cut them out of your life??

I'm sorry that I don't have lots of advice but you do have my empathy.

One of the biggest frustrations in our situation is that DPs ex has not moved on - her desire to exclude DP from his DCs lives was not because of a new relationship. We think that it was based on familiarity and a desire to recreate her own childhood, along with, perhaps, an element of jealousy that her DCs have something in their lives that she didn't have?

Ironically, after three years, DPs ex does seem to have finally accepted that the DCs benefit from having their Dad in their life - but it's too late! The damage has been done, and from what I can gather, DSD now resents her mum for the change of attitude towards DP, so DSD doesn't have a positive relationship with either parent

Just to add to the already excellent advice- a classic symptom of PA is that the child will reject all others connected to the "bad" parent. Although it must hurt to see her reject her half brother, try to take comfort in the fact that this is proof that your husband and his parenting aren't the problem at all. Despite you dsd's protests, it is proof that she is rejecting all who in her eyes are not "on her mothers side" regardless of what their faults may or may not be.
I can relate to the theory that mum might be trying to recreate her own upbringing "I didn't have/need a dad in my life so why should you"
So utterly tragic that people can't have the self awareness to seek help for these problems but instead drag their children down the same path.
(BOM)

Smum99, she's 12 yo. Tbh she's the complete opposite of the eldest in character and i would be very surprised if she reacted the same. She's overshadowed by her sister academically, but is far more outgoing socially and seems a lot 'healthier' emotionally in many ways. She is eternally smiling, affectionate, demonstrative, and able to decipher feelings in others and respond appropriately. I don't think she has it in her to be spiteful or hurt anyone else -and i include her friends in that. She wears her heart on her sleeve and tends not to judge others. The eldest has always been very guarded, less comfortable with showing her feelings and very difficult to 'reach' iyswim? I sometimes wonder if it's because she is able to remember times when DH and his Ex were still together, and how she felt when her world changed. The youngest just seems better equipped to deal with life and other people, adapt to situations etc.

I tried speaking to her about the situation because i was worried about the impact on her. She just said her sister can be very 'explosive' with some people (not everybody, but apparently she argues a lot with her step dad, which i guess is normal for a teenager) and 'keeps her feelings in'. She said she doesn't think about the situation much and doesn't want to get involved. I said i respected that and understood.