Any strategies on how we can get DP's kids to open up?

[origamirose]

I am worried about DP's youngest (8). She often gets upset and won't say what's wrong - the upset can go on for hours.

For example:
This morning we made her shower as her hair really needed a wash. The conversation went as follows:

DP: DD can you go and have a shower please, your hair could do with a wash?
DD: silence
Me: You can try out the new conditioner too - it's in the brown bottle and it smells great.
DD: silence (turned face to wall away from us both)
DP: DD on you go - in the shower

She then crawled to the bathroom (?!)

10 minutes later she's still in the bathroom and I hear her sobbing. Go and get DP who persuades her to come out. She won't tell him what's wrong - says that she doesn't know and refuses to talk to anyone. That was a couple of hours ago and she's still not talking to anyone.

This type of thing happens a lot. I am not a mum and don't have much experience with kids of this age.

Should we be worried or is this normal 8 year old behaviour?
Is there anything we can do to help her talk about how she's feeling?

Lots of questions - what is the contact arrangement, how recent is the separation, how long have you been around, does her mum have a new partner, is her life stable...?

But, the bottom line is that she is struggling emotionally with something and is too young to understand it or express it
Both my DD and my DSS have been through this at about the same age - counselling has helped both of them a great deal - I would suggest your DP tries to get some established as soon as possible.

Few years ago I had a nephew living with me who had been through a traumatic event.

He had counselling, and one of the things suggested was that a way of getting him to talk (he was 9) was through board games, one to one with someone he trusts. As it happened the person he trusted was me, and we used to disappear to a quiet room, and play board game. I think its a way of lightening it up for them and something to focus on, so that the talking almost became secondary - if that makes sense?

It did work, got him to talk.

But counselling obviously started us off on the right track so that would seem the right place to start.

Can you talk to the school about it? First to see if they have noticed anything, but also to see if they can put you in contact with someone who can help her talk.
BTW my eight year old doesn't wash her own hair.

Crawling to the shower in protest, does sound like the sort of thing my DD (8) would do too tbh.

But crying and being upset is clearly not good. Does she live most of the time at her mum's? If so, does her mum baby her a lot do you know? And 8 year old ought to be able to get themself showered independently (assuming she can reach the controls - my shower is high up and my DD can't), but some parents would still tend to help them a bit at that age. Do you think maybe she felt unsettled at being sent off to do it herself? If her mum does helps her normally she might just find she misses her mum at times like this maybe?

If she says she doesn't know what's wrong, she might be telling the truth - that she isn't really able to understand why she's upset. You or DP could try asking her more factual questions that she can answer, to get conversation flowing and help break her out of her silence, so that you can have some chance of understanding what's making her unhappy - eg "Do you know where your towel is? Do you have a shower at mummy's on your own? etc" Would she prefer a bath?

Thank you all for replying. I do appreciate it.

Bit more background... her M&D have been separated/divorced for 5 years. My DP does not get on with his ex - they can't seem to have a civil conversation without winding each other up (I lay blame at both parties for that and I don't want this to turn into ex-bashing). Ex came out of relationship just before xmas. There have been several relationships. Since xmas both girls have been extremely tight lipped about anything that's going on at their Mum's - they simply don't talk about it - give monosyllabic answers when asked - hardly even mention Mum when they're here. I do not think this should be encouraged/is normal.

I have a good relationship with both girls (have known them for 2 yrs).We get on really well - this one (the younger) and I are quite similar in nature and she likes me to be around and she will often copy the things I am doing e.g. if I am reading the paper she will come and sit beside me with her book; if I am sewing she will get her knitting out (cute!).

I probably agree that both girls could benefit from counselling but I don't think either of their parents would go for it.

Re being babied at her mum's - she isn't. In the time that I've known her she's always showered/bathed on her own. I think she's still a bit young to do her own hair (cause it never seems to be rinsed properly). She would be horrified at the prospect of me or DP helping her rinse it! She can also reach all the controls and refuses any help with that!

I guess DP should try and talk to her mum about it...

origami if the relationship isn't civil and it is unlikely that his ex would agree to counselling then perhaps it would be better for your DP to make the arrangements himself and then let his ex know that 'this is what is happening' rather than try and obtain her consent - he has as much right to seek support for his DDs as their mum does whether or not he is RP.

My DP did just this - his ex refused to consider counselling, made all sorts of threats about what would happen if he did anything, but once it was all arranged and she realised that she couldn't do anything about it - she began to reluctantly engage in the process

With an 8 year old whose hair needed washing, I would say "I bought some new shampoo and conditioner. Why I don't I wash and style your hair for you - pop and get your flannel and towel, and then come along to my bathroom and you can kneel by the bath while I wash it."

And then you make her look and feel like a princess while you spend 30 minutes washing and drying her hair.

She wants to feel cared for!

Bonsoir she is very well cared for and truly loved by me and her dad. When she is with us this is her home and I cannot make that sort of fuss over day to day tasks as I don't think its for the best long term. This thread is really seeking advice on how we can help her articulate her feelings to us...

You need to get close to her on all fronts if you want her to be intimate and open up to you...

Honestly I don't think you have any evidence that we are not close. She doesn't talk to anyone. As it happens DP and his ex (who have a very strained relationship) have agreed this week that she needs help articulating her feelings as her mum is experiencing the same sort of thing... there is a long family history of depression and we are worried about her (because we care and because we have a close relationship).
So please refrain from judging.

My posts were not judgemental - you asked for suggestions and I offered some (tried and tested) ones, but your responses were extraordinarily defensive. I wonder, are you good at opening up to people yourself?

To be fair to the OP, I have been sensitive in the past to comments which suggest that I need to 'show DSS that he is loved' as the implication is that the situation can be improved if only I tried harder

Ime, Children like my DSS and the OPs DSD display more discomfort when they are subjected to special treatment - the adult may be motivated by a desire to show the child how loved and special they are, but the child suffers from additional conflict and anxiety because of the overall situation and withdraw further
Often, these children believe that by enjoying time with one family they are being disloyal to the other - and they begin to resent the parent or step parent who makes effort to help them feel settled and comfortable

OP, I hope that your DSDs parents can work together to help her through this

"When she is with us this is her home and I cannot make that sort of fuss over day to day tasks as I don't think its for the best long term."

NotADisneyMum - and did you have the above attitude to your DSCs?

Spending 30 mins washing and blow drying her hair is a wonderful idea. Little girsl adore the attention and the touching is gentle and relaxing - conducive to more open chat. My 9 year old daughter (and her older sisters) have always been infatuated by other mums who do it for her better/more than I do. Try it. And my daughter is only recently able to wash her hair properly by herself, at 9 1/2, so I think this little bit of special attention is not really a hardship and will reap benefits way beyond the effort it takes. She really is still a very small child.

bonsoir not at first, we tried to make a big fuss of DSS, make him feel special and loved - which we subsequently were advised was increasing his anxiety because of the conflict it caused.

The advice we have been given is to provide DSS with an environment which is low key and doesn't single him out to make him feel special but integrates him into the everyday household, allowing him space to withdraw if he wishes.

I think it is really important that the OPs DSD receives some appropriate therapy/counselling before the OPs household make changes to the way they interact with her. That way, the emotional needs of the DC can be professionally assessed. We did what we 'thought was right' with DSS and it made things 10 times worse for him

I always dry her hair after it is washed and style it the way she wants (usually double french plaits). I also think she's too young to be washing her own hair (her mum disagrees).
I probably am a bit over sensitive/ defensive. But this is not really about a girl being asked to shower. Its about a girl who when weeping in the bathroom can't explain what's wrong or how she feels or what's made her sad. She simply sits on my knee (or DPs) and cuddles till she feels better but if pushes to talk will run away and hide. This happens fairly regularly not just with us but at her mum's house too. Its way beyond being asked to shower (wash hair) which is something she normally does every weekend without this level of fuss..

NADM I cross posted. Thank you for support.

I'm not suggesting that the OP make a big fuss of her DSD. Just the normal sort of one-on-one special care that adults who live with children (whether their own child or not) show them, in order to foster intimacy.

But not all DCs can deal with that level of intimacy or emotional openness when they are conflicted - just because it works in a 'typical' household doesn't mean it should be forced onto a DC, 'because it's good for them'.

My DSS felt obliged, for months, to hug me goodnight. He was obviously conflicted and uncomfortable about it, but had grown up with the 'rule' that DCs hug the adults in the household goodnight, and continued to initiate it through a belief that it was required.
It was finally brought out into the open when DSS mum blamed DSS problems on the fact that there wasn't enough physical affection shown towards DSS in our house - she said DSS needed hugs as he is a very 'huggy' child, and encouraged us to co-sleep with him, too.
When the counsellor spoke to DSS, the total opposite was true - hugs from DP and myself make DSS anxious as he knows it is something special that he shares with his mum. Had we gone along with his mums solution, we would have made things 10 times worse

If a DC has loyalty conflict between parents then tried and tested methods of increasing a DCs feelings of security can have a detrimental affect.

I'm not suggesting instigating rules that break personal boundaries; I'm suggesting that the OP might think up ways of gently getting closer to her DSD (which could be hair washing or a million other things).

And I'm sure with the help of a counsellor, in time, the OP will do just that

For DSS and I, it is cooking and baking - I'm a caterer and he is a fabulous chef, who loves to teach me new recipes
He disclosed this in counselling, and was supported by his therapist to tell us - it is unlikely that the OP will stumble on what works for her DSD without professional help, and could make things worse if she tries, however well meaning

We had this with DSS, the ex's marriage broke up and dss was obviously very upset but unable to speak about it. He is very closed and doesn't talk about his feelings but I found that if I spoke about events (and specifically losses) in my childhood and how I felt he was able to relate.

If an event in childhood is so overwhelming then often children can't literally speak about it. DSS felt like this as he was ashamed of his mum's behaviour (had yet another affair and broke up a 'friends' marriage as well as her own). As a small community dss felt very judged, through association, and then worried about the consequences. He had also witnessed high levels of conflict as the ex's marriage ended and new b/f arrived on the scene. Very slowly dss is recovering and now speaks to me about his home life, I think this is because he believes I can relate to him.

So I think rather than focus on her, talk to her about feelings, events and emotions you/others have had in life and she may understand that she isn't alone and others have gone through significant events.

I would also speak to a counsellor and ask for their assessment of the situation, even if they don't meet dsd they will be able to support you to support her.