votes please!

[lurkerlou]

Hello all,

I've been lurking on various topics in MN including the step parenting one but have been lured out by our current situation.

My partner has one daughter by his previous marriage aged 10 and we have been gradually finding our way through the court process to get him some decent access for her. We are currently still waiting for the next hearing. She changes the access arrangements every few weeks to suit her shift pattern on a fairly bizarre basis at the best of times but this was the only way he could get any weekday time from mediation 6 months ago. He currently has some weekend overnight access (which is often randomly cancelled) and one evening a week, usually for tea. The current shift pattern is particularly unfortunate and she is stating he can only see DSD on Tuesdays... between 9pm and 11pm

She is basically a good mother but can't seem to see that this is going to disturb her school day the next day and she should be in bed at that time. She says that she always reads until 11 anyway and she can't see why its a problem and she can come over in her PJs so she can just jump into bed when he drops her off.

He can't afford a solicitor so is self-representing which has not been so bad so far but we're stuck on the following question:

Should he
a) not see DSD on the allocated time on Tuesday which will upset and confuse her (ex will tell her he doesn't want to see her) and mean he loses out on any weekday time. It would also mean the status quo drops to weekend contact only after many battles to get some weekday time.

b) stick to the 'agreement' and see her these days to show willing. This doesn't seem fair on DSD either and he's worried the court will perceive him as as bad as the ex by doing something that he clearly feels is not in her interest.

Are we
c) being slightly over anxious about the 11pm bedtime in the circumstances and she'll probably manage fine for a few weeks.
or
d) pandering to more lunacy.

votes (and any thoughts) please!

My logical self says this is unreasonably late and not fair for school etc, but I can see your dilemma.
Is she really wanting her DD bringing back at 11pm? Why not stay overnight?

Yep, overnights are absolutely not allowed during the week. This apparently is 'just not necessary', not does she think DSD wants it and - I kid you not - it would disturb DSD's routine! After a few text messages and an exchange of e-mails we're sure she means 11pm.

Even for her, its so odd we're mostly just perplexed, though we have come to expect a complete lack of logic and internal consistency to her arguments.

The 9pm till 11pm 'slot' is ridiculous, at any age. I don't think you should go along with this - complying with unreasonable demands/rules is futile and will only lead to such silly arrangements being perpetuated.

Even if ex works strange shift patterns, she won't be bringing her daughter to work with her, so surely she must be 'available' for a more reasonable time, even if the ex is working.

If your DP does go to court I should imagine he will easily get mid-week access at a more reasonable time.

Her childcare isn't the issue - her partner is at home at that time and would otherwise look after DSD

We are concerned that even if DP says no she will still drop DSD on our doorstep at 9pm as arranged and ensure her partner is out for the evening.

I really hope the court process does sort it out but don't want to reck our own position either way while we wait.

Well in that case her shifts are a red herring and nothing whatsoever to do with the fact she is being difficult over access. It is my understanding that the court would take a dim view of this.

If you accept the 9pm-11pm she will tell the judge that you were happy with it and why are you complaining now. I think this is more likely to cause you a problem than continuing to ask for reasonable access at a more child-friendly time. In doing so you can show that you have the child's best interests at heart. 9pm-11pm is not in the child's best interests.

I would ask for overnight on the Tuesday. If not awarded would have thought she'd be beter with a babysitter in bed than out til after 11 on a school night. My 12 year old is usually asleep by 10 so sounds v late to me.

Absolutely her shifts are a red herring and my DP has had to fight very hard for the access he now has. We're asking for every other weekend and one overnight a week - from a sensible time! At the moment we have to wait until she knows when she's working and what else is happening in her social life before she will allow any time to be arranged which is a nightmare. We don't mind some flexibility but currently we never know what's happening from one minute to the next.

That's what he is worried about taketwo - but it will be horrible for SD to have an argument on the doorstep. Theyve managed to avoid arguments in front of her so far.

What happens if we take the documented objections he has sent her about this to court to show we don't agree but felt there was no choice.

Lurker - DP and I had exactly the same issue - the DSC mum works shifts and the contact was entirely dictated by that.
DP eventually put his foot down when DSD demanded to know why he hadn't pinned her mums latest shift schedule on the fridge like she told him too

DPs ex then began to withhold contact, so DP went to court - his ex was demanding that the order fitted around her shifts but DP's solicitor made it clear that if exW was dependent on DP for child care, then DP was happy to have residency of the DCs as his work was more regular hours and he could provide stability
Eventually, the court disregarded ExW shifts - and the DCs contact order was written to best suit them not their mum

Can I just check where you are in the court proceedings? Are you awaiting CAFCASS reports?

I would not go ahead with this schedule and formally write to her (used recorded delivery) asking for contact but at a time that is best for DSD, propose all the evenings that you can do..be as flexible as possible. It is not suitable for a child to be meeting a parent at that time..what is your DP supposed to do with her at that time? Crazy woman!!

Does your DP have contact with the school? I suspect they would take a dim view of making a child stay up til 11pm, it can't help with her learning. Make it clear you want to see the DSD but at a time when it's best for the child.

Don't allow this madness, she is asking you to put the child in a very difficult situation - no sensible parent would offer this and the courts will completely recognise this.

It would be worth getting your DP signed up to FNF as they offer excellent advice for self repping. I think if this does go to court (and subject to satisfactory CAFCASS) you will get sensible and reasonable access.

I'm angry on your behalf - this is contact blocking - which is so often denied but courts are aware. The judge in DH's case was very clear to the ex that she was unreasonable. Fortunately judges are seeing through this manipulative behaviour.

Dont' do it. It's not in the best interests of the child and no court would think that it was. If you do end up doing it, the courts will probably think you are just as bad as the Mother and putting your desire to see the child above what is right for the child.

Thanks for your replies :)

redhen - that is exactly our worry but we are worried he will be accused of being unreliable and going back on an agreement as one of her frequent complaints is of unreliability. From my point of view this is another craziness that I can't understand given my 3 years experience of living with the situation. DP has had to turn down 2 offered contact times in 3 years (both of which she had tried to organise at the last minute and we were out of the country on one) and was once 20 minutes late due to a tricky issue at work. In contrast she wont arrange a schedule in advance and even the months notice we get is often altered. He pays a regular amount and never misses and it is more than the CSA would assess. She is a complete puzzle.

NotaDisneyMum - that sounds hopeful and I love the suggestion about residency as an argument

Smum - we are waiting for CAFCASS and have been for weeks now. We've used some of the things on the FNF website although sounds like it might be worth joining too? Various MN threads, Google and a few other sites have been very helpful as have some friends who have been in a similar position. However Google has failed on our current problem as often it seems to be the RP being more overprotective about a child's routine rather than this peculiar situation where she seems oblivious to it.