when four becomes five

[theredhen]

Eldest dsd is 15. She has a17 year old boyfriend, they have been together7 months. He currently lives about 10 miles away and she normally sees him for one day on the weekends she's with us. We do all the fetching and carrying.

When dsd is with mum he gets a bus to their house but often stays for nights at a time, not unusual for him to stay Friday, Saturday and Sunday night. AS Far as I'm aware they are not having sex and sleep in separate rooms at mums, although that isn't what this is about.

Boyfriend is moving about 40 miles away soon. A few Weeks ago dsd sent her dad a text saying her and her boyfriend had decided that when he moves away they will have a two week rota, so she will stay at his for two weekends, Friday to Monday and then the following two weekends, they will spend at mums or ours together. this ensures she is rota compliant with us so mum gets her break and assumes that we will do all the running around. Bearing in mind dp already does 250 miles in an average weekend this adds on another 160. Mum won't do any running around so will either put dsd on a train and expect us to pay for it or will expect dp to do it on both weekends.

Dp doesn't want him here all weekend as don't I. It's hard enough having am extra four people here. Dp is saying all the right things and has even said he is prepared for dsd to vote with her feet. Apparently mum thinks the idea she has for the weekends is a good one. [Hmm].

It is a bit of a problem when they get older and can't just be carted from one house to another- and want to see friends and boyfriends and not just family.
I don't know how long you have had the arrangement but things change. What you do at 6 yrs isn't always suitable at 11 yrs which isn't always suitable at 15yrs. You have less than 3 years to go and she will be an adult.

This isn't something just to be dictated by a text message! Discuss it next time you see her. You may need to radically change your usual access.

I would be quite happy for her to see her boyfriend at weekends and come for a night during the week, although I don't think this is ideal for her in her final GCSE year - surely she should be spending some of the weekend studying?! Mum insists we have all the kids Friday to Monday, so no way she wants DSD at hers on "our" weekend. However, it is the Mum who is the one deciding that this arrangement is OK, not us!

Not once has either DSD or boyfriend actually ASKED either DP or myself if any of these arrangements would be OK with us and last night the boyfriend actually started dictating to my DP what time he would need picking up and dropping off, again without actually asking if a. he could stay with us for 3 nights and b. if DP would be able to drive around for him.

I used to think that when the kids got to this sort of stage, they would stay at Mums more and go to friends etc from there (we live in the back end of beyond), but apparently that is not allowed and they have to come to us and DP spends the majority of his contact time in a car driving them up and down the road to their friends etc.

Aside from the emotional issues of the fact that I don't want this (quite nice) young man living with me 3 nights a fortnight and over half the school holidays, there are the practicalities. Teenage boys aren't cheap to feed and it's going to significantly push up the food budget, not to mention the washing. I already do 3 loads a day when the kids are here. We only have a 7 seater car, so if we go out as a family to lunch with in laws etc, we will have to do even more running around as we will do two trips.

DP tries to discuss things with DSD but she just goes quite or agrees with what he suggests and then we get an almighty rant from her Mum by e-mail a few days later. Seems to me that DSD is old enough to "decide" what she does at weekends, but not old enough to discuss it.

I should also point out that boyfriend will be living in digs and not with his family, so DSD won't be in a "family" home when she goes to stay with him. DP is not happy at the thought of her staying over for 3 nights there either.

What a difficult situation. I would be like your DP and not be happy with any of it. No way would I let a 15 yo girl go and spend weekends with her boyfriend. I don't understand the Mother allowing it.

I think your DP needs to make it clear it won't be happening and explain to dsd and bf that they are being incredibly rude to not even ask.

The Mum is a separate issue, DP needs to stand strong and explain that he feels it is inappropriate, and that it shouldn't happen at all. Unfortunately he can't stop what happens when she is in charge though.

Completely agree with Eglu, no way would I let a 15 year old spend a weekend alone in digs with her b/f or at my house.

If the b/f has moved and dsd and him are not old enough to transport themselves then they can't get together much..sad fact of life but 15 year olds aren't adults so don't have the responsibilities or the benefits of adulthood.

Is she Year 11? If so then school work MUST take precedence - the amount of studying she will need to do is significant and most teens are advised to limit outside activities rather than take the whole weekend off.

I think your dp needs to determine his values about this - I would not find it acceptable on so many levels. The assumption that the b/f stays with you is madness, she has no 'right' to demand this. What if all the children asked for a friend to stay each weekend..it just wouldn't happened.
What btw has happened with his parents?

If the mum allow the b/f to stay at hers then it's her choice but if you don't agree then don't do it - let him visit for a day BUT he should make an effort to get most of the way himself. I would be happy to be the 'bad' cop in this situation as you have to consider the impact on yourselves and the rest of the dc's.

I would also get your DP to tell dsd that he has made his decision and no amount of running to her Mum and getting her to rant will change his mind.

Yes, she is year 11 and her Mum has stopped contact with some of the children in the behalf because the standard of their homework whilst staying with us has been of an "inferior" quality. She spouts lots and lots about importance of education despite having some really quite outstanding double standards, including this one .

I really hope DP can get his mindset clear and be determined to do the right thing and not be waivered by emotional blackmail. There are certainly repercussions for our relationship if he goes back on his word, as every time he does that I lose a bit more respect for him as a parent and as a person.

DSD does seem to think that she has all the perks of being an adult but none of the responsibility. At that age, I would certainly not have had an adult ferrying me around on whatever whim I had or expected 4 other children and 2 adults to be inconvenienced because of me!

Long story about his parents, but he is a child of a single parent who is working a long way away.

Agree with smum and eglu. I can't even imagine allowing her to stay with the bf like that, let alone all the rest of it...and as for an announcement about what she and her bf "decided" - that's outrageous.
15 is a child. what is her mum thinking!!!

Mum has met the people in the house share and has become their new best friend. She has been letting boyfriend stay over since the word go. She often has him in the house when DSD isn't there, wants to spend time with him and his family even if DSD is not there. She has cancelled contact with us because her daughter needed to spend time with her boyfriends family (when they arrive every few months) because it is "very important to DSD".

Her Mum is carrying on like they are a 25 year couple not a 15 and 17 year old. I also don't like the precedent she is setting for the other 4 children in our house and the upset that could potentially occur to the younger siblings if (and when) they split up.

I do think that this is a typical example of what happens when a child has warring parents who are frightened of upsetting the child. The child effectively controls the whole show. When either parent actually stands up for what is right, the child just runs to the other knowing they will be allowed to do exactly what the other parent doesn't want them to do.

I think the whole thing is totally inappropriate. ok there's nothing you can do while she is at her mother's house, but no way would I be ok with her boyfriend staying over at weekends. She is too young for this.

Personally my approach would be:

• your DH/you jointly tell her that you don't feel this is appropriate at her age
• you would still really like to see her at weekends, but if she would prefer to spend the majority of the weekend with her boyfriend, then you respect that and she can discuss it with her mum

Agree with exoticfruits (wow it had to happen once ) that this is just one example of why stricte access arrangements don't work for teenagers. I haven't come across any such problems yet because DH's mother has DSS1 (aged 16) so brainwashed into thinking that he is a little child with no thoughts of his own, that he doesn't EVER, EVER, want to do "his own thing" on weekends

Its not acceptable for mum , sd or boyfreind ( or anyone else ) to decide that this young lad will be staying in your home , or that you will be ferrying him around at your own expense . I wouldnt accept him staying and i think its unacceptable at 15 . It also starts a worrying precedant if theres younger children in the family , they too will expect boyfreinds and girlfreinds to be able to stay over at 15 .

If she would prefer to spend her weekends with her boyfreind , i would say thats fine , but i would not have him forced onto me like this . Much better if she continues the arrangement at her mums and respects the fact that you dont want this sort of arrangement in your home .

If he stays in a separate room, where would you put him? Don't you have a pretty full house at weekends?

Would also be concerned at allowing a 15 year old to have bf to stay over regularly - though if that's what's already happening at her mum's house it's kind of useless to make different rules for yours in terms of setting appropriate boundaries for her, though it's perfectly reasonable for you to set whatever rules you need for sake of others in the household. Maybe they will need to accept that they won't be able to see each other every weekend, or that he may have to do most of the travelling and find somewhere else to stay some of the time.

As the boy is only 17 are you 'guardians' or acting in loco parentis for him whilst he is in your home? (especially if the parents are not local).

The mum I think is being irresponsible - DSD doesn't understand the consequences of this as she is too young. I fear that she & the b/f are being thrown together due to circumstances, just seems so unhealthy at this age..Shouldn't they just be dating rather than living together like 20's somethings? being a parent means saying No to inappropriate requests, and teens will strop but hey that's life!!

When we told my teen that we were moving she reacted by saying she didn't want to leave her b/f so would stay with a friend..of course it didn't happen and she very happily settled into new area and thrived. Even though it's only a few years later she laughs at the idea of staying with the friend as they are no longer in contact.

You seem to be the only sane adult in your household:)

Bloody hell Redhen - as if things weren't difficult enough for you already. I just hope that this time your DP finally does what's right for everyone in your household (sod what the mum thinks) and that includes SD. Bottom line should be that what goes on in your household when his kids are with you is up to YOU and DP, who are the adults of the family. SD and her boyfriend can "decide" all they bloody like but their plans will come to nothing without DP's co-operation, and that, in whatever form, should be something YOU also fully buy into.

I agree that this sort of ridiculous, irresponsible and arrogant nonsense is what happens when children are pandered to, and have somewhere else to run off to when they don't like what they're hearing. If your DP was ever going to grow some it's now. Yeah - he's not helped matters by agreeing in the past to drive here there and everywhere, and maybe SD can't be completely blamed for assuming she just has to snap her fingers, but this is a step beyond demanding lifts back and forth to friends and activities. For your sake, and your son's, I'll keep my fingers crossed that DP sticks to his word because, like you, I'd not be able to accept what's being suggested - for all sorts of reasons - and it would probably damage my relationship for good.

Do let us know what happens.

He has stayed here 2 nights in the past 7 months and I suggested the sofa, DP suggested he shared with my DS (who has bunk beds) and DP ended up putting him in with his DS on a mattress on the floor.

I have no idea exactly where is parents are, their contact numbers or anything else. I believe DSD Mum knows but seeing as she won't answer her phone to us, if anything happened to him, I don't know how we could contact his parents.

Someone else pointed out to me today that if we allow him to stay over and allow her to stay at his, we could be seen to be encouraging under age sex and that in itself is a crime.

DP is talking about driving 25 miles to enable her to see him for the day by train, but he seems to be prepared that she might not want to come. Although he says he doesn't think that will happen. I think he might be wrong.

I think that you need the radical change-you can't have her dominating what happens.
I agree with redhen-it is a good example of a DC playing one off against the other. Unfortunately I don't know the answer-except that it needs talking about.

It's not often that a step- situation renders me speechless, but in this case, just !!!

redhen - I cannot begin to imagine the kind of life you are leading in which a 15 year old girl believes that she has the right to dictate who spends time in your home.

I can only imagine that lack-of-parenting is the underlying cause for such entitled behaviour to develop - I admire you for sticking with it for as long as you have, but fully understand that you are losing respect for your DH

I understand that kids will have boyfriends / girlfriends / friends to come round - but since when did I become carer for someone else without anyone even asking me or DP?!

I had said to DP that I could accept one night with him staying on the sofa or in DSS room possibly as a compromise but having read everyone's comments, think I was being overly generous. The truth is I don't want him staying overnight at all except perhaps if they have a party to go to around here, for example.

It is this sense of entitlement that all the DSC have that drives me nuts, but more so the fact, that DP does so little about it. I also know if my DS spoke to me or DP like that, DP would be unhappy about it.

Well, the boyfriend has moved and the first weekend is coming up. DSD has announced that she intends to get the train on Sat morning and return to us Sat evening to see her boyfriend.

Great news, as far as I am concerned, but we will see what happens when she wants him to come over to ours. Again, I am happy for him to come over on the Saturday but not overnight and I am not thrilled at the thought of them refusing to go out anywhere or do anything but vegetate on my sofa all day!