Worrying about something that hasn't happened yet - but it will... WWYD?

[broccoliquiche]

Long time lurker on this thread so I know I'll get sensible opinions, and I genuinely don't know the answer to my hypothetical (so far) scenario and could do with some input in advance!

So, DSS(6) lives with his mum and DH supposedly has alternate weekend/half holiday contact. However, there is a long history of mum making contact difficult whether by changing dates/times/collection arrangements etc, or cancelling because of her plans or his 'alleged' illness. We have only recently started being allowed to take him on holiday (had to go to court to get this) and my concern is that DSS's mum will come up with some reason why we can't collect DSS before a holiday when we have a flight booked, and we'll end up missing the flight.

I wouldn't mind so much (although my and DH's holiday time is quite limited) but we have three other children to think about who don't get any extra holidays, unlike DSS whose mum takes him abroad quite often as well as him holidaying with us from now on.

If DSS's mum did cause problems, WWYD?
(a) go without DSS so nobody else misses out
(b) I take younger three on my own (nightmare!) and DH hopes he can get him and DSS on later flight (not always possible in which case younger three don't have a holiday with their dad at all, and massive extra expense)
(c) none of us go because it wouldn't be fair on DSS to miss holiday time with us.

I just can't imagine DH going for option (a) as he will normally go to virtually impossible lengths to preserve as much contact as we can possibly get. I really admire him for this and support as much as I can, but do feel there must be limits somewhere as to what the rest of us have to deal with or lose out on. Or do we just have to suck it up?

My own personal opinion is that, if you have given reasonable notice of the holiday in advance and have agreed the dates with her and booked it.... then, if she messes around later on then realistically you have to go ahead with your original plans. Yes that would be hard on DSC but what can you do if you've booked it? Like you say, you have 3 other children and would lose money otherwise. You can't be responsible for her awkwardness if you've been totally reasonable in making the arrangements.

What a nightmare

My first instinct would be to go on holiday as planned without DSS and then deal with the legal/court action when you get back; don't let her get away with breaching CO contact, it only makes things worse as DC's get older

Legally, it would actually give a solicitor more to work with in court if your DSS missed out on the holiday completely due to his mum breaching the CO and changing thing at the last minute - but I realise that this has an impact on you all as a family, too, and it is easy to say that but a lot harder to do when you have sobbing, disappointed children to care for

I'm not sure that there is an easy solution tbh - but I think it is important that you and your DH are on the same page - so if you aren't happy about something, bring it out into the open and discuss it, don't "suck it up" as it will only breed resentment

You need to get signed consent for the holiday.

If u have informed ex of dates, location, an address of where u will be staying and can show return tickets if asked then there should be no problem.

The letter is important incase u are stopped at the airport or if she changes her mind u can produce it in court.

If this did go to court if the above can be produced then the reason that she would have to provide with why DSS couldn't go would have to be pretty good.

Book the flights a couple of days after you start contact (and be vague about the date you are flying to the ex) so that if there's some problem you've got a bit of time to sort things out?

Or try to find a time when you know that his mother has some plans without him, so she's got an incentive to make sure he's with you?

If that fails, though, of the options you present - not ever doing holidays is clearly not fair on your younger 3 DCs (or you), and going without DH is not fair on anyone, so I would think that going without DSS is the only reasonable option. Tough on him, but it really is his mother's fault, not anyone else's if this happens. Maybe don't mention too much about the holiday in advance to him, so that if he doesn't get to go, he's not too disapointed?

We also went to court and were awarded holidays so booked a trip. All communicated and agreed with the ex however in the days leading up to the holiday she made it clear she would be awkward..continual veiled threat of not giving us his passport. I have to say I was completely stressed and dreaded the actually pick-up however DH had made it clear that we would be going on holiday with or without DSS. There was no way we could afford to book flights again.

It seemed to work as the ex reluctantly handed over the passport..phew. I would advise having a few days between pick and holiday as it was stressful.

Whilst I know you DP wouldn't want to miss holidays with his son if the ex is using manipulative and bullying tactics you have to call her bluff. We learnt this after many years of trying to be conciliatory.

I'm sure we will face this...if we ever get holiday contact! Great advice given, but if it did go nasty, as you describe, I would say go without him. Anything else simply isn't fair on your DC's who will get the message that they aren't as important as their step/half sibling.

Gosh, this is horrid situation to be in. Someone had just this problem last year I think, maybe I am thinking of you Smum?

I think I would want to proceed as though I was in a normal world. Then his mum is, sadly, free to mess things up for your stepson. But you will be able to say hand on heart - we wanted to take you, we booked for you, we couldn't control what your mum did.

Otherwise your whole family is at the mercy of SS' mum, which is unfair and would feel horrible I think.

Could you perhaps take a UK holiday, then you don't need to give any notice or get consent, plus you will not have to lose so much cash if he is prevented from coming?

Hmm...on the cash front, I'm sure I heard at some point that if that happened (ie ex prevents child from going on court-ordered holiday, you could go back to court and get the cost back? Does anyone know if it is true?

we were very nearly in this situation last year. DH's ex loves any opportunity to be difficult and it of course gave her the perfect chance.
We gave her just under a year's notice (as it was a big holiday to the US).

I knew she would be v difficult about handing over passport so asked her a couple of months prior to our trip. She didnt reply for another couple of weeks and then said she would send it down. It never arrived. Then she said she wanted £100 before she would hand it over (she sent DSS1 down to say so). I made him go back, get the passport and gave him a cheque because I thought I really CBA to have the hassle and £100 in the scheme of the overall cost of the holiday was inconsequential. We now have his passport though (she never takes kids anywhere abroad so no point and we have been abroad since). She made him take ALL his schoolbooks with him as she wanted him to study every day (although she never cares about his school work normally) and was just painful throughout - phoning and texting him every day (he is 17 now btw).
I would either not go abroad, or just make it extremely clear you are going with or without DSS. Or simply dont plan to take him on this particular holiday, tough call as that may be......
Get the passport though and soon, if you do intend to go and get agreement now in writing (in email) about dates etc.

what a horrible situation. I hope it doesn't arise. Like the advice about picking up a couple of days early - lie to his mum if necessary about departure date.

If all else fails, if it was me, I'd say you have to all go without DSS. No-one else has said this yet, but maybe she would see how much this would upset him and realise how unfair she's being.

UC - in my experience, the blame for DCs upset in these situations is always placed with the NRP - it will be said that he made the choice to go away with his new family, and abandon his child

you cant give her the power though of holding your entire family to ransom just because she can and she knows she has you jumping when she wants (sorry about mixed metaphors!). We have had the same thing and by simply not reacting to it but calmly explaining your stance and what you are going to do (e.g. you are going away regardless and you make sure the boys knows he is very much welcome) you remove her power and she may reconsider...

you can?t give her the power of holding your entire family to ransom just because she can, and she knows she has you jumping when she wants

That?s absolutely spot-on. Otherwise everyone else?s holiday is at risk due her behaviour, and it?s completely unfair .

I agree that calmly stating your case, and carrying on regardless, is exactly the right thing to do, if she can?t rattle you, or spoil your plans, then she can?t create the very drama she thrives on.

Wow, unanimous - so grateful to you all for your thoughts and it definitely fits with my gut feeling that we cannot all lose our holiday because of a mad witch that I've barely even met. I get so resentful of all the problems that she causes that I was worrying that I was just finding excuses to wash our hands of finding a solution in that scenario. Really helpful to have some techniques to avoid the problem arising in the first place too.

Sorry to hear of those of you who have already had to face this issue