Was I wrong to lose my temper as much as I did?

[madonnawhore]

I posted this in OTBT but someone suggested I post here too as I may get better insights.

Quick bit of background: been with my BF for around 15 months. We don't live together. He has a DD (4) with his ex. She walked out on him when their DD was 2 and I met him two months later. During our relationship he's been grieving the break up of his family, which has always been a source of insecurity for me. I shouldn't have got involved with him so soon after his horrible break up, but to be fair he did dripfeed me the details of their split slightly and by the time I understood the full timescale of it and everything I was smitten with him.

He's a good, kind, caring person and partner. Really can't fault him on that front. And he's a fantastic father to his little girl. He'll bend over backwards for her, which is kind of what this post is about.

So, I've been staying at his this week and his DD has been at her mum's (she's the RP). We didn't have specific plans for last night but I was looking forward to just chilling in front of the telly with him. Then at lunchtime he sends me an email saying his ex has asked him to take their DD to a family do being held by her family (apparently a distant relative was in town or something) that night.

Stuff like this has happened before at the last minute, where she can't look after their DD because she's got a 'work meeting' (more on that later) and so BF has to change his plans to suit her.

I said I didn't see why he had to go since it was a family do with all his ex's family and surely between them, one of them could look after his DD. And I said I was angry that I was getting ditched at such short notice for what seemed to me like no good reason.

He said he had to go because:

A. his ex's parents were refusing to babysit any more because his ex had been asking them to babysit loads recently (too bad as far as I'm concerned. Maybe she should just go out less and spend more time with her child, then people would be more inclined to babysit.)

B. his ex asked him to take their DD while on speakerphone so DD could hear him on the other end and she got all excited thinking she was going to see her dad. So in his words he'd 'look like the bad guy if he said no'. Which was really shitty and manipulative of his ex imo.

I have to say I went a bit nuclear. I couldn't help it, once I let the lid off a little bit it all came tumbling out. I was shouting, crying. And I got really bitchy about his ex too. Probably not my finest moment but I was furious that she could just say 'jump' at such short notice and everyone says 'how high?'. While I draw the shit end of the stick yet again and had my evening ruined. I said it was massively disrespectful to me and that even though I knew I'd always be second best to his DD, I NEVER EVER expect to be put second best to his ex. Which is what I feel happened last night.

It's as if what I wanted to do that evening and how I felt about it didn't matter at all. It's all about everyone bending over backwards to help his ex out.

Oh, and the reason she couldn't take her DD to her own family's party? She was going to meet someone 'from a modelling agency', because she wants to be 'a model'.

BF and I talked loads last night and I didn't hold back on how I felt. We kind of cleared the air, but this morning I still feel so, so angry and I can't seem to move past it. I feel like he should have said no and told her not to put him on the spot like that. I feel like he should have not gone when he saw how upset I was.

I don't even quite know why I got as upset as I did. I feel terrible for losing my temper and making my BF feel bad when he was put in an impossible situation. Am I being really selfish? Maybe I can't hack it?

Any insights or slaps round the face are welcome.

Thanks if you made it this far.

PS: I posted this a few days ago, so I'm not talking about Saturday night. This happened during the week.

So not only did she want him to have his DD at short notice on her contact night - but she wanted to dictate to him what he would do with her during the time! Some people are just incredible.

But you know what, I'm afraid your anger is being directed at the wrong person (well, not entirely because asking when DD was on speaker phone was shitty and manipulative).

Now you're calmer I think you need to have a think about what ground rules you want to set. Then set them with him and get him to agree. You obviously love him so I'm not going to do a "leave the bastard" on you. But I would seriously urge you to take steps to assert yourself in this relationship because it's not headed anywhere good right now.

My suggested ground rules would be:
-When his ex makes a request to him he should tell her calmly that he will think about it and get back to her in the next hour. Then he must discuss it with you.
-He will ask his ex not to allow their DD to hear these requests, explaining how harmful it can be for children hear their parents bartering over time with them. He can't make her do this but by repeating the request he is asserting himself.
-If he has made a plan with you on a particular night then there are only certain things that mean he can change it i.e. his daughter falls ill and needs him or his ex is genuinely incapable of having her.

OK a very gentle slap across the face from me.

My exh and I both drop everything at the drop of a hat if DS needs something, we have a really good working relationship for him, he will take DS to family parties and in fact still attends a lot himself, despite being split for over 9 years and me being remarried with 2 babies.

He is still their family, through the DD and he may well have relationships with exes family of his own.

You werent really doing anything were you??

I had partners give me this sort of hastle (I never let them meet DS), and they soon became exes and I know exh has also had this sort of hassle.

When DS was younger, we chopped and changed at a moments notice, because of work commitments etc, days out, and even if it was just because DS felt like seeing dad or felt like coming home a little early.

For me this flexibility has worked well and I think it is nice DP wants to see as much of her as he can and she wants to see him.

One thing about BoMs advice, I will add further to is this.

Your DP cannot control his ex, he cant, I know, god knows we have tried.

So you can only change the way you react to her.

MJ is 100 times the woman I am..

I think Ranting it helped that I was single for so long (through choice , its easier to be flexible when you only have yourself and DS to think about.

I was a mare to my BFs, I had one who lived 100's of miles away, if something cropped up and DS was home for some reason, he had to sleep in the spare room, I did that for 2 years!!!!

but the man I fell in love with and married, is the man who accepted that this flexible arrangement was what I wanted and with exh work commitments, it was the only way things could be.

I never understand, if DS wants to spend time with me or his dad, why I should deny him that, I didnt do it for ex, I did it for DS.

You are so right MJ. I have a lot to learn. But one thing I know is that once my DH started to assert his opinion with his ex - whilst he hasn't changed her, it made me feel a lot more valued and made me have a lot more respect for him.

Saying that, he was only asserting his own opion. If OP's DP feels that he wants to do thse things for his ex/ his DD then she needs to decide if this is the life she wants. I think MJ has a special brand of patience that many women don't have.

Ha, see I am completely torn between both your points of view!

On the one hand I do want to be assertive and have my feelings and needs considered as well. It feels rubbish to be the expendable factor in the situation all the time.

On the other hand, I don't want to be obstructive and stop my BF spending as much time with his DD as he can. And it's true, he does have a good relationship with his ex's family, so I think it's good that his DD sees everyone getting on.

I just feel so...impotent.

I don't have any children of my own so I suppose I am a bit selfish in that my universe revolves around my life and him. Whereas he has loads of people to think about and try to keep happy.

I am sympathetic to your DH's decison on three counts:
1.) It seems right that DD not miss out on an occasion with the extended family just because her mum can't take her. And since it was a bit of an 'event' whereas you guys were going to have a quiet evening in, he might have weighed those up and decided that actually he had to do what was right for DD, this once.
2.) He's the dad, so his care of and time spent with DD can't be characterised as babysitting (not that you said that - I just mean in contrast to, say, asking other family to take DD), and so sometimes he will need to cancel plans, that just goes with the territory of being a parent.
2.) It does sound like his ex went about it in such a way that he was really put on the spot.
So - some sympathy for DH.

BUT HOLD ON! That's where my sympathy ends, really. Ex didn't get unavoidably detained at the office or come down sick - she fucked off to see a modelling agent. Not on. What really happened this time is that her decision to pursue a networking oportunity (a lame one, yes, but I wouldn't even go there as you will seem a bit mean-spirited!) cost you an evening with your partner.

If it were me, my response to that would very much depend on the pattern of the relationship. You say that stuff like this has happened before. I'd have a close look at that. Again, sometimes these things happen for legitimate reasons - and sometimes, you're being messed about or taken for granted. I don't think it is selfish to let your DP know you won't be put second to his ex's whims, or be taken for granted. Just be clear about what has made you angry this time, and don't overgeneralise it, so that your DP has to face up to it - not hide behind a defensive posture like "you're just jealous of my ex" or "don't you understand that i want to spend time with DD" - keep it about YOU and your expectations in a relationship, not about THEM.

ooh, you got much better advice while i was composing my reply! good.

It is only the sort of patience that comes after years of frustration.

TBH When I was pregnant with DS2, I nearly lost him, through stress, after a vicious row with then DP, over something his ex had done, and that wasnt his fault and he couldnt control.

Thats when I realised that I had to accept, we couldnt control the bitch ex and so we had to accept things as were.

Re my own DS, I never wanted him to have separated parents, and I have always brought him up to believe his dad is as important as me, I do not and never have owned DS, he was his own little person, he loves me and he loves his dad. That was all that mattered to me.

And I can tell you that my lovely (now) step daughter has told me, that she wishes with all her heart that her mum and dad could have the same relationship as I do with my exh.

I completely agree about how if the children want to spend time then they shouldnt be denied it. 100%.

However, it seems to rarely be that it is what the child wants and more ften what the other parent wants because something 'better' has come up.

That said, together parents chop and change who is responsible for the kids if other social bits and bobs come up so it does make sense that split parents should do the same I guess.

madonna I have often said in the past, having step children, while not having any children of your own, is the worst of every world!! Its not something I would have wanted to try.

Also a thought, I see you wanted this in OTBT, now you have some responses, you could ask mumsnet to move it for you?? I dont know if they will, but it cant hurt to ask.

Different strokes hey. Madonna any thoughts on moving forward?

My ex and I get along fine and manage very well. I would say we have a good relationship even though we irratate each other greatly! DD knows we each value her relationship with the other one very highly.

Thank you for your input. I've found it really helpful and I do feel a bit better about having stood up for myself.

After having had a couple of days to think about it I did call him last night and I apologised for being angry and shouting, and said I wished I'd been a lot calmer in the way I handled it. He was very gracious.

If I'm honest with myself, I think it is partly to do with my own issues around his ex. I am jealous of her. She goes out A LOT and leaves her DD with various family members all the time - she often asks BF to take his DD on nights that she's supposed to have her and to be fair, my BF does say no.

I just feel like, she left him and broke his heart so she should face up to the consequences of her actions. I.e you forfeit the usual level of support you'd get from a full time partner.

But even though she's selfish and inconsiderate and not being a very good mum to his DD; and even though they're not together any more, she can still command my BF's attention and time in a way that I will never be able to.

And I don't like it :(

How can I become more accepting that this is the way it is? How did you guys do it? Are there any mental tricks I can use?

Yes thanks MJ I'll ask them to move it.

Am crying now and I don't really know why :(

Thanks all of you for replying.

This is so hard sometimes. I'm terrified I've made it too hard for him and now he'll be having second thoughts.

Honestly, as someone who always put DH second to having DS with me, I can say, I absolutely adore my husband, always have, always will, I love the way he never challenged me on when I had DS or complained if exh pulled out and we still had DS, it makes me love him more.

I think you need to change your mindset to thinking its nice that he has DD and that she is with him. Your bond with her will grow better if you can. I am my DBDs second mum now and we are very close.

Its hard for you as you have no children, and you dont live with him, so you have all the restrictions on your life of a child, but no child of your own.

In time, I think you will meet the exes family. My exh is still a part of my family, maybe that would help?? Just think of them as his friends?

wish I'd read some replies like this when was with ex DP who had child when I didn't. I let myself be so sidelined and my feelings disregarded that the anger is still with me now. (12 years and 2DDs of my own)
Have no words of wisdom of my own except to echo thought that you need to think of the relationship as a whole, and if you feel it is anti-you, really consider hard how much more you want to invest in this, as the deeper you get the harder it is.
Good luck.

Its hard for you as you have no children, and you dont live with him, so you have all the restrictions on your life of a child, but no child of your own.

I think this is a big part of it, MJ. And I think it would bother me less if his DD knew I was her dad's girlfriend. But she thinks I'm just a friend. So I never spend the night at his house when she's there.

So when he has his DD, I generally have to stay out of the picture. I mean, we'll maybe all do something for the day on the weekend. Or there have been times when I've gone over to his house and the three of us have spent the evening together and even put her to bed together. But then I always go home to my own place. And these tend to be more one-offs. Not part of the routine of our relationship IYSWIM?

I think that's what makes it harder, is that him having his DD generally = me not really seeing him at all.

Just typing that down I realise I'm sounding like a bit of a psycho who wants him all to herself. I'm not, I promise. I do have my own life! And I absolutely know it's important that he spends time with her alone. I guess I'm just a bit insecure about my 'status'.

God, this has turned into a bit of a therapy thread. Sorry. It's just so hard. I feel like I'd been doing really well until now and last week, my facade of detached, supportive coolness just disintegrated into weeping, needy additional problem he doesn't need.

madonnawhore, what you're feeling is perfectly natural, imo. I HATE it when DP has sdc on short notice - it's always because ex decides she's got something better to do, and I feel like he just jumps at her command. It's not the kids, I wouldn't care if they lived with us full time - it's the intimation that we have nothing better to do.

But you know.... ultimately, he wants to see his kids - and that's a good thing, right? It's hard having to come a good way down a list though, I really understand how you feel.

I dont like to say this, but as someone who acted as your DH did, I think he isnt as sure as you are about your relationship.

He is compartmentalising his life (as I did), and I think the only reason I did that for so long as that I had doubts.

The issue here isnt him having DD, its him having DD while 15 months down the road, he hasnt told her about you.

I think thats the real issue tbh and then its an issue between you and him more than its an "ex" issue. Thats where the conversations need to lie. 15 months is a fair time for him to know if he wants you to be a part of their lives or not.

That's on my mind all the time, MJ.

I think that's why I feel so insecure.

But then I remember that he was only two months out of his previous relationship when we met, so he and his DD are still getting over the split and getting used to the new routine.

Yes, if he'd been single for a couple of years before we met then I'd agree with you. But maybe I'd be asking too much of him to be sure about that stuff now?

It depends if you need him to be sure, if you are happy to see where this is going, thats fine.

And I cant advise you on that, if you are getting what you need, then leave it, but if you are in a relationship what is making you unhappy, then there needs to be change.