New developements

[therantingBOM]

Hi all, new year-new thread, as the lovely petal suggested.

So, DSD came to us and saw DD for the first time in 19 days. Considering that DD (5) has spent half the week with her "sister" for the past 3/4 years it has been a pretty tough adustment for everyone.

Initially, DSD was pleased to see DD and acted the part well enough. But she had a friend with her and soon enough the cracks showed and after an hour her and her friend were snuggled on the sofa with the 3 lounge blankets and refused to let DD have one.This resulted in much crying which I was trying to calmly put a stop to.

DH, thinking this was a usual tantrum/ outburst from DD immediately reprimanded her at which point I snapped at him to back the hell off considering the emotional stress that my DD was under. I flipped - told him we have been treading on eggshells around DSD's shit behaviour since the start of December yet my DD is supposed to behave impecably despite the fact her own dad has recently got engaged ^and moved housde (a happy time but one of change non the less)

I ended up going out as soon as DD was asleep, leaving on fairly good terms with DH but basically avoiding any "family time" with him, DSd and her friend.

I have to be honest here and say.... "i dislike her" I think she is a maniplative, machiavellian, two faced, nasty bitch. Yes, she's 12. Yes, this is extreme. But it is how I feel.

I have no idea what to do with these emotions but I know I can't continue like this.

In every other way DH and I are sooooo happy. we love each other dearly. But this little mini adult is making me miserable and I don't know what to do.

I feel like her mother is in the house with us all the time she is here. I feel like everything I do is being reported on and although I know I shouldn't care (I am a grown woman with confidence, a good career, confidence in parenting etc.) I really do.

It's like being invaded in your own home by a 12 year old child who first of all is in an adult womans's body - and secondly is the mouth piece and mind of her mother.

I can't take anymore... but why should I let go of DH - the best thing that ever happened to me and the best man for me... ?

Also, DSD has become increasingly "off-the-rails" since she hasn't been with us. She made a video on FB of her and her friend running "black people" down and using the "N" word. I was mortified considering that my own friends and family are friends with her on FB. But because we are now not not parents.. (DH has had that stripped of him by DSD and her mother saying it's only necessary for DSD to come once a week and even that is because they have to spend some time with him in order for his ex to "have a break") in light of her only coming here once a week - DH doesn't feel like he can tell her off about it.

Help!!

You have to get together with DH and be consistent and apply rules. Unfortunately when you got DH you got his DD, it isn't negotiable. You can't have one without the other. She is part of your family. You don't give up on your children when the going gets tough.
I would try and see her as an unhappy child. However it all hinges on DH -you need his support to deal with her together.

DH needs to realise that he can and should tell her off.

That's it really. I can handle her behaviour if DH is picking her up on it. That way at least I know that she is being made aware it is wrong. He has never been a "disney dad" and has always asserted his view with her despite in leaving him the unpopular parent.
However, since all this happened DSD hasn't had to take any responsibility fot the hurt she is causing.
No one has pointed out to her that it isnt acceptable to just drop people in the way that she has. I feel for her because she has only done what she has done to please her extremely controlling NPD mum. But the fact is, she has done it.

You're right, you cant just drop your children when things are tough. But I don't see her as my child anymore. I always did but how can a kid I see once a week if I'm lucky be my child??? Or DH's for that matter. She's made it quite clear that she doesnt need us.

She clearly does need you though. Children who behave in the very way that drives you away are the ones calling out for help. Her mother is causing her huge emotional problems. I don't know the answers-I will bump it up and perhaps someone else will give advice.

Thanks EF. Sorry, I wasnt meaning to argue with you.

I feel for you-unfortunately I don't know the answers and you are in a situation way beyond your control. I think it needs outside help.

BOM, Has your DH spoken to DSD since the fall out? I do wonder if there is underlying bitterness from DSD and whilst she is now allowed to come to you she is still holding in anger.

A big mistake we make is to not to discuss what is actually happening for DSS, the advice is always to not involve the children but if one parent has made damaging comments about the other parent the child is likely to be influenced.

I do also think that at 12 when she's with a friend her behaviour to her little sister could be worse.Did she change her attitude a little when the friend wasn't there?

I really do know how you feel - DSS can behave terribly at times and I feel the relationship is a one way street - we (including younger siblings) have to give all the time. However at 12 your DSD is still too young to really understand what is happening, if her mum is NPD then she won't have developed emotionally so you are dealing with a damaged child. It's hard to accept that and even harder to deal with it.

In the past we have had counselling for us - to help us deal with DSS, it helps as both DH & I are supported and DH understands that DSS's behaviour isn't 'normal'. The best advice I can give is don't let it impact yours and DH's relationship. I know that my DH feels the loss of the child that he 'should' have and sometimes seeing how our other children are reminds him of the loss further.

The other thing to mention - you have had this pressure since Dec and during that time you have supported your DH. Your batteries are likely to be low and you might need to recharge. Don't under estimate the impact on you and the need to top up your reserves. I had a similar situation last year - DSS's mum had ended yet another marriage and moved yet another man into the home, cue her to rant and rave at DH (everything is someone else's fault!) DSS is messed up and whilst with us he is awful. I deal with it at the time but 6 weeks later I just got so cross with DH for the situation I felt he had put me in and disappeared with the DCs for the weekend and I left him to deal with DSS. Best thing I did, sometimes putting yourself first is the right thing to do.

I feel your frustration ragingbom! The DSD in my life is 15 and at times pleasant enough but I dont think I could cope with large chunks of time around her and dp. She seems to feel the need to practicaly sit on dp's lap I'm not sure if its just when I'm around as I've never mentioned it obviously, but is this a jealousy possessiveness thing? Christ when i was 15 I hardly wanteed to speak to my dad the poor soul! I know what you mean by little adult aswel, in some ways kids are much easier but on the plus side I dont have so long til they fly the nest! If she ever leaves daddy's side....

She's now allowed to come to us on a friday and stay saturday all day until evening (obviously because the CSA dont take days in to account with their calculations so whilst DH isn't an appropriate enough parent to have his DD on school nights - he is appropriate enough to have her for whole days )
So she is dipping in too infrequently for DH and I to have any kind of influence.
He has spoken to her a little but she just says she doent want to talk about it so he took the view that her time here should be a sanctuary away from the maddness at her mental mother's house. He thought that if she sees us being mature and calm and getting on with our life then she will enetually realise that being here isn't the negative thing her mum makes it out to be.

I agreed. But I didnt account for how hard it would be emotionally for me and DD (DH seems to be coping very well - but then he's not a big talker. Over Xmas he was really down but he seems to have just fallen in line now.

That would tie in the your advice about how I might be run down after supporting him for so long... i.e. now he is coping okay I've realised that Im not.
My DD has gone to a party so I'm going to have a little nap as I'm not really sleeping.

Right firstly, behaviour running down people of a different ethnicity on video, facebook or anywhere else is inciting racial hatred, which is illegal. Report the video to facebook - you wont get found out and they will deal with that for you. Her behaviour in that sense is absolutely horrific so remove her from your facebook or block her posts.

Her behaviour to your daughter was undoubtedly juvenile and unkind however it is fairly normal bitchy teenage girl stuff, it just also happens to hit your tiger mummy button and because you are angry at the selfishness of what her mother is putting you through you feel worse about it. You are very, very tired and rundown from the sounds of it and need a break. SHe wants you and your dp to fight, that is the point. Why dont you try and seperate yourself from her for a while - is that possible? Something I am trying to work on in myself right now is realising that the mothers attitude is totally irrelevant. She can tell herself I am a shit mother all she likes but the only person she is winding up is herself, and I know the truth.

I think it was MJ just before christmas who said somethign that really chimed with me. In my house, I am the mother. Not her mother, but the mother. Same for you. Your house, your rules. Write out what the blanket rules of your house are with your partner, put them somewhere obvious and then if she steps over them tell her it isnt acceptable. If your partner wont then follow through, the problem is not your dsd, its him.

Keep your chin up chuck - this too shall pass and all that.

Thanks for that - ou're right, I am the mother in this house. And I dont think it is doing DD any good to see DH and I become such nobodies when we should be in charge.

Dsd told DD she would stay tonight and watch her ride her bike (she has just learned this week!), then decided to go to her frineds house at the last minute.

As DH and i were just discussing - maybe if it was anormal situation I would consider DSD's behaviour as normal teenage stuff - but the fact that her mother is so manipulative and cruel and narcisistic we are always worried that what DSD displays isn't a blip - but more the MO that she will display for her whole life.

we stopped discipling DSD for a while, it was AWFUL.

I finally flipped when she left me sat in a boiling hot car for over an hour with 2 babies a few times in the space of week, having got away with it once ............

I point blank refused to collect her from school anymore and we had a row that led to 6 weeks with no contact, but I wouldnt back down, we left her to it, DH sent the odd text ...........

She came around in her own time and normal service (as normal as our life ever is) was resumed.

I did sit her down and explain to her the impact of her behaviour on the DCs, she took it in good stead tbf and honestly, now, I couldnt ask for a more lovely young woman (consider this in context of I used to feel physically sick with nerves when she was coming a few years ago).

Just caught up with this BOM; it is scarily familiar

You are dealing with alienation and the very real risk it will develop into estrangement - I've been there, as you know. DP continued to 'parent' DSD, and she soon voted with her feet.

I've no advice really, but if I had our time over, I would have got DSD help/intervention a lot sooner - it's too late now, she can opt out of counselling/support because of her age. There is a local youth counselling service that accepts GP referrals for under 13s - we should have done that while she was younger. Web if shed sat there and said nothing, that would have exposed the problem, rather than ignored it, hoping it would get better. I now know - it never will unless it is challenged.
DP is going to send DSD a copy of the Welcome Back Pluto DvD - but in our hearts, we both know it's too late - we made mistakes and she's lost her Dad as a result

Web if shed ?!? That should read * even if she had !!

Dont lose heart, honestly, I promise, we have been through this with my DBD, and look at how she is standing by us now!!

She didnt go to counselling until she was 14 - and that took 2 years of persausion.

we stopped funding extras as well, DH wrote to her and explained he wanted her to have things, but he wasnt a cash point.

If she wants all the nice extras DH has been providing she needs to treat you all as decent human beings. I know she is 12, I know its hard, but by continuing to shell out, he is effectively rewarding her for bad behaviour.

MJ - how would you recommend DP approaches DSD/the issue to try and persuade her to seek support?

At the moment, any contact he initiates is ignored and the only contact she initiates is rude/abusive

No worries NADM - we can both learn from it all.

He gave DSD £10 to go in to town with her friend so she could get lunch. As I pointed out - where is the pocket money he gave her 14 days ago? Where is the work that has gone in to earning the £10? I actually wouldnt be giving her pocket money if I was him (well, who knows what I would do if I was him the poor man).

When DSD was messing about with contact - saying she'd come, then changing her mind when DP arrived on the doorstep to pick her up - it was devastating for my DD - she had put DSD on a pedestal

Both DP and I tried explaining to DSD how her behaviour was affecting DD; she screamed abuse at us and told us that we were making her feel bad and that she hated us for it etc etc.

I'm not sure how to deal with that level of self-absorption to be honest; like you, I find it very, very hard to consider DSD to be 'a victim', as there are plenty of children who don't turn against a parent even when actively encouraged by the other.
When I'm feeling generous, i recognise that she has a personality type that is easily influenced by others and I realise that is, at least in part, a consequence of the parenting style that DP and his exW used when DSD was much younger.

Thank goodness, DSS is much younger and the damage is bring undone

You don't have to like your DSD BOM - but it is your DHs job as her parent to 'parent' her and you have the choice whether to support him or disengage and leave him to get on with it.
I wouldn't cook, clean, fund or chauffeur a child who was capable of being deliberate rude to me and chose to do so - whether or not they were my own or someone elses.

Just caught up with this thread - excellent advice from everybody - but I wanted to pick up on a point from one of your posts? The fb page racist thing. I seriously would not be able to ignore that, and whilst I absolutely get what you mean about being stripped of his parenting, there's no way your DH shouldn't be pulling her up about it. Apart from anything else, that isn't just teenage behaviour, it's foul and he is still her Dad, he can't ignore it.

Funnily enough, FB is one of the few places that DP has resisted parenting DSD, as the risk of her 'defriending' him would remove his only way of keeping up to date with her life.
He has reported things like that to FB though - and given how many FB friends DSD has (I'm guessing your DSD is the same, BOM?) anyone could have reported their concerns - so dear old dad isn't an automatic suspect!

my teens have 800 friends plus

poor dh

been there, done that, got tshirt

Sorry yes, I have reported that video and told DH that I did so. He said today that he has decided to keep "parenting her" as she doesnt like him anyway so he's nothing to lose and maybe she'll benefit in some small way.

He commented on something on her FB wall today and said - "DD please stop swearing on Facebook"

She said "How about stop stalking me!"

Eurghhh

Yes she has squillions of friends

OMG - DSD referred to a stalker on FB today, too - and we think she meant DP!