When does it become ok to take kids away from their dad?

[SquallyRose]

My DH has mental health problems and cannot be left alone with our kids, he does take SS out alone but he shouldn't but I refuse to be involved with that and to be honest its a relief because I don't get on with the SS at all, he's 7 and he's just awful, not his fault and he's allowed and encouraged to be that way by both his parents but thats another story but it still makes for a very unplesent child and some horrible experiences.
My DH is abusive and I want to leave for mine and the kids sake, I realise if my DD sees much more she'll learn to expect the same from her own relationships and that would destroy me, ditto if my DS started doingsimilar to his girlfriends.
The problem is I know if I leave or kick him out that he will not see our children again, I have told him in the past due to his abuse and mental health issues he would only get supervised access and he has frequently told me he would not accept that, would fight me in court to have them for a whole weekend a fortnight and if he didn't get it I'd have to explain to t he kids why they didn't have a dad anymore so basically if I leave the kids will probably never see their dad again.
Am I right to walk away knowing that they'll loose a parent over it though? I've always very strongly believed that kids need both parents but at what point does a parent forfit the right to be a part of that childs life?

As a parent I would fight for custody. But giving the choice of supervised visits or nothing I would take supervision. That is HIS choice not yours. You are not, therefore taking his children out of his life.

Staying with an abuser is not good for you or your dc.

To add social services are involved now and are fully supportive of me leaving and have said they would step in quite quickly to prevent him having anything other than supervised access so I am not worried he'd get what he wants, I am his full time carer, without me doing everything for him he wouldn't even dress himself so no way on that alone he could adequaely look after 2 very young children on his own

How old are the dc's? Has your Dh been diagnosed with mental health issues?
At the point of splitting up couples often say things which they don't really mean..If your DH has undiagnosed mental health issues then he will be "assuming" you are being unreasonable to demand restricted access.

If this go to court and you had genuine concerns CAFCASS would be involved and they would perform assessments and make a recommendation on whether or not contact should be supervised.

In answer to the question - children are prevented from sole access if the courts decide (via assessments ) that the children are at risk.

I'm in total agreement with housemovehell...

In an ideal world kids should have both parents to look after them but if one of those parents has the potential to emotionally damage them, then kids will do better without that parent being around

x=posted..If SS are involved already then I think it's likely he will only get supervised contact. Is he getting help? Often someone with MH issues has to reach a very low stage before they get the help they need.medication may work for him and the situation could improve such that you feel happier about contact.

It must be tough for the children and scary - They will know something is wrong but will need reassurances that their parents love them but that dad isn't very well at the moment.

Yes its a genuine concern, he has been diagnosed with mental health issues but has refused almost all help, he was assigned a CPN, mental health social worker, counsellor, medication, he didn't turn up to any of the appointments and in the end it all got withdawn because they don't have the funds to chase people. He knows he's got issues but he's always taken the path of least resistance and the abuse is something I think he's always done.
Our children are 1 and 2, I do tell them he loves them but its very hard, especially with the 2yr old as she is very bright and sensitive and knows he's upset me even though I don't bad mouth him to them. He can be nice to the children but mostly he doesn''t bother with them at all unless we have guests then he's perfect dad. Usually its go away, I'm busy, no you can't have a cuddle etc, my DD constantly asks him if he thinks shes good which worries me and if he's in a mood he'll say stuff like you can't have a cuddle coz Mummy is a bitch to me which I think is very damaging
Its a mix of the health issues and abuse really, if he would get help and become more responsible I would feel happier that he was able to care for them but I am not sure he should still get unsupervised access as I would be very worried about what they were hearing and seeing while I wasn't there.

Whilst his mental health issues might explain some of the behaviour of your DP it does not mean that it is OK for you and your children to "put up with it".

If he makes threats to cut all contact, I suspect it is because he knows you feel very upset at the thought of the kids not having two parents in their lives. We all want to protect our children but keeping them in an abusive household is not protecting them and leaving and having supervised (or no contact) contact is actually what appears to be best here from your post.

I am speaking as an adult who is very grateful for the adult who took me away from a mentally ill adult who had care of me as a child.

Thanks theredhen, its encouraging to hear from someone who was in that position as a child and is grateful for being removed from it. I know in my head its best to go I am just worried with the children being so young that they will grow up thinking he didn't love them and I have no intention of telling them how bad it was, simply that he wasn't well enough to live with us. I'm scared they'll trun round when older and say I took their dad from them I suppose

If he makes the decision to not see his children unless it's completely on his terms then more fool him. That's not your problem to resolve. You need to protect both yourself and your DCs. You can't protect them if you've been dragged down with him, and your DCs are too young to be able to protect themselves.

I'd also talk to SS about what to say to your DCs about their dad, both now and in the future. Obviously right now they're too tiny to need to know anything other than he's not well but as they get older it will help them if you tell them a bit more. Most of all, regularly reassure them that whatever it is that's up with their dad, it's not their fault, it's not something they can fix, but that they can rely on you.

You're doing the right thing.

Backing the others here. If he is abusive and has MH issues and turns down contact in a safe environment he is choosing to leave them and trying to control your desire to do the right thing for your kids. You and your children have the right to live free from abuse and fear so I think you should make the decision to move on with your lives. With ss involved it isnt even your choice so I dont see what you have to feel guilty for.

Please don't stay out of some misguided attempt to not deprive your DC of their father. The very best you can do is remove them from this situation (and yourself too). Your DD won't remember any of this if you leave now. Kids really don't retain much memory at all from the first three years of their lives. I was amazed when talking to my DS1 earlier today that he didn't remember me being pregnant - and DS2 was born when he was 3.6 years old. Your husband is making his own choice to reject the help/medication offered and he is abusing you. You don't have to put up with that - or his abuse.

OP - they're not going to think you don't love them because you took them away from their dad, even if he does end up losing contact. I know many grown up children of single parents, some of whom have lost contact with fathers, and none of them think that. They have close bonds with their mothers, and sometimes with step-fathers, and sometimes their natural fathers too. Who can tell how it will pan out in terms of their relationship with their dad in the long run? Maybe his health will improve. Maybe he'll change, but you can't be held responsible for whatever happens in the future, if you make the best decision you can for all of you now.

You can't of course tell them much at the ages they are now, but later when they're older you can explain about mental illness, and relationships, and they can start to understand it better. You can do this without really blaming their dad either, just telling them he was ill and that you didn't feel it was best for them (or you) to stay with him.

given the choice between 2 parents, one of which is ausive and the other the abused, or 1 parent who chooses to protect their kids no matter what, i think its pretty easy to see which is the better scenario for the child.

kids need non-abusive parents even if its just 1 more than they need the supposed ideal 2 parents

Hi, I think you've had some good thoughts already upthread and I agree that a happy and supportive 1-parent family is way, way better than an abusive/stressful/unhappy 2-parent family.

In a situation where SS are involved, where the children are being damaged now by someone, I would take action to prevent the reality of the current damage and be willing to risk the very small possibility the children may disagree with you some years down the line.

I'm afraid that, whatever you decide, there is going to be a time where you have to explain that decision to your children - and it will not be easy .

My mum had to explain to me why she/we stayed (basically because of us kids) and believe me, that conversation was as full of self recrimination as if she had left. I don't blame her for her decision but I am certainly not grateful either - living with a mentally ill and (in my case) emotionally abusive husband/father is bloody awful.

As someone who had fled abuse I understand why you feel you have to stay. But, it is only going to get worse.

Leaving was the best thing I ever did, my children now have space to grow, and to be. They have contact with their father, who is slowly destroying his relationship with them.

If SS are involved then you can be confident that contact will be managed.

Someone on here once said this to me, and this was the dealbreaker when it was time to go:

You have choice whether to stay. Your children don't.

Do you choose you abusive h, or your children?