dsd and her anger...... v long, sorry

[2blessed2bstressed]

Dsd1 is nearly 14 and is very angry - nobody, least of all her, knows why. This manifests itself in violent screaming arguments, with either her mum, or (much more rarely) her dad - my dp. She throws things, lashes out, and swears at them.

Her mum has been in touch with the school, who have given dsd a keyworker/counsellor, and apparently "child protection officers" have been to mums house to discuss an allegation made by dsd regarding dp grabbing her by the neck during an outburst. I wasn't there, but dp swears he did no such thing, and I believe him. Nobody has contacted him regarding the allegation.
A couple of weeks ago there was a meeting at the school with all parties involved, including a social worker, school keyworker, head of guidance etc. it was suggested that family mediation could be looked at, which dp and ex agreed could be useful. There is also a childrens centre at our local hospital where dsd can be referred to try and help her. Ex is very reluctant as dsd would be "labelled". I'm not sure what the label would say, and how any of ex's neighbours or friends would know anyway if she didn't tell them - and why should she?
Anyway, last night dp phoned to wish dsd2 a Happy Birthday and dsd1 was in the middle of full-blown paddy. She had spat in her mums face, thrown a piggy bank at her mums head (fortunately her aim is appalling), and then swept her arm right across the mantelpiece causing everything on it to be thrown to the floor and smashed or broken. Once it had calmed down a few hours later, her mum phoned dp to bring him up to speed on what had happened - and herein lies the problem - she had taken her belt to her daughter after the spitting in the face, and has now decided not to mention any of this to keyworker or anyone, because "they'll take the kids off me and I'll be charged". So this whole situation goes unrecorded and dsd gets worse?

Dp won't say anything because ex will use it to turn the girls against him , and is very cross because ex hasn't phoned family mediation yet to try and arrange an appointment. He then got very cross with me when I pointed out that he was as much a parent as she was, and he had done nothing about it either.
I don't really know why I'm posting this actually, I guess I just would like to be able to talk it all through with somebody

I think 14 year old girls are often angry (hormones and all that) and have one foot in childhood and one in adolescent. However this girl sounds a little OTT. I think the family therapy idea is a good one, IF this girl will take part. Teenagers often find anything to do with their parents embarrassing, especially sitting in a room talking about problems! Likewise the childrens centre at the local hospital - teenagers are very good at sabotaging such meetings and she would be embarrassed, especially as it is in a hospital.

Usually in the UK the only thing available on the NHS is a referral from the GP or SW to CAHMS (Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service) this varies dependent on the worker that you get.

I am wondering how much the step parenting issue is at the root of this girl's problems. How old was she when her parents separated. Is she jealous of your children and do you and her dad have any that are yours IFYSWIM - or maybe jealous of younger children at home. It might be worth checking out if she is being bullied at school.

However I think the root of the problem could be the mother "taking a belt" to her daughter. How many 14 year old girls would stand for that - they would kick out and hit the parent who was trying to abuse them. I don't know exactly what is meant by the belt issue, but if she used it hard enough to make mark that is child abuse and also emotional abuse - how humiliating for the girl even though she had behaved very badly. You say DP won't say anything because ex will turn the girls against him. This has to be brought into the open for the girl's sake and her mother (who is clearly unable to control except by being violent) what sort of a father is your DP if he know this and keeps it to himself. What does it say to the girl, that her dad knows but is going to keep it quiet?

I think you DP got annoyed with your justifiable comment because he knew it was true and he felt guilty......often people cover their real emotion with anger.

I think your DP and his ex should sit down and have a conversation asap about making this appointment. I think your DP has to say what happened with the belt must be brought out, both for the protection of the girl and help for the mother. The girl will not necessarily be removed at all, especially if the mother is willing to admit she lost control under severe provocation and is remorseful. She needs to be helped to find other ways of controlling her daughter through this difficult phase.

Hi, I think your DP must work fully with the relevant people or the whole process is pointless. In addition, it will look terrible if your SD makes it known what happened and adults were deemed to be hiding it.

I was a very unhappy teenager with very difficult parents who occasionally resorted to similar tactics. The only thing, the only thing I wanted was for someone to listen to me about why I was so unhappy. Every time I was shouted at, grounded, punished or hit I just escalated things.

Your DP needs to stop being scared and put his head over the parapet.

Really hope you find a way through this, it sounds horribly stressful.

Thanks for replying, it is horribly stressful, and I feel v sorry for dsd.
In answer to Nananina - mum and dad separated when girls were 5 and 3, mum quite quickly got together with someone, who she is marrying next year. Dp had a 4 year relationship with someone which ended about 5 months before he and I got together 2 and a bit years ago. We'd been friends for a long time before that though and the kids all knew us and each other already.

I have 2 boys, the same ages as dsds, youngest ones in school together, get on fine. My oldest ds is SN with ASD, he and dsd1 are extremely fond of each other and she always behaves impeccably around him. He can raise a smile when noone else can.

I really don't agree with a lot of dps exs parenting, she does do a bit of slapping and stuff - the belt thing horrified me, but I suspect it was more of a swipe at dsds legs in the passing, rather than a sustained assault. She has slapped dsd before, and they scream and yell at each other like fishwives, but at the end of the day, if dp has tried to intervene, somehow he has always ended up the bad one, he and his ex are arguing, and dsd has gone off with her friends, returning to mums later with everything forgotten.

Dp is just at the end of his tether I think, for a long time he wasn't being told anything. Wasn't told about meetings at school, wasn't informed about keyworkers involvement, wasn't aware of any of it.

He really wants to get it all sorted out, but he also wants a quiet life - I've tried to explain that if things don't get sorted out now, then it might lead to much more serious problems later. I've also tried to explain that at this stage, nobody is going to take the girls away...I don't know if ex genuinely believes that they might, or if it's just been for dramatic effect.

The childrens centre at the hospital is in a separate purpose built building - there is a waiting list for appointments, which dsd had, then mum cancelled.

As Chelen says teenagers need to be able to have their say and that might make all the difference to this girl.

Surely there are private counsellors around - with an outsider present to keep them apart a discussion involving teenager and parents will at the very least allow everyone to explain their feelings and maybe clear the air.

It could be 40 -50 pounds an hour. Two or three sessions might be enough.

I've looked into private counselling, and family mediation, and I've given dp the phone numbers. The cost wouldn't be an issue, just getting mum and dsd there along with dp is the problem.
Children's centre is an NHS facility, I believe her appointment was to have been with child psychologist and was to help with dsds anger management, but as I said, mum cancelled...and now dsd has to rejoin waiting list.
I'm trying to be supportive to dp, without being interfering, but the whole situation is becoming increasingly upsetting...for everybody

The mother is abusing that child. I understand that you are in a tough spot, and also that you are trying to do something about it, so good for you. But please, please, please - you can't know about the belt incident and keep quiet.

is the belt thing a regular thing or is the mum trying to find ways of disciplining a child out of control?
either way telling you dp is either her way of asking for help or trying to make him complicit.
spiting in your mothers face etc is a bit more than normal angry teenage behaviour and the mother must really be struggling with ways to deal with this behaviour.
can you think of any reason why she is like this with her mother more than her father, does she blame her mother for the split etc.
i think your dp needs to convince his ex to be honest about what exactly goes on as this will be the only way to get the full help that is needed. if she is struggling to cope and doing things like belting her daughter in order to try and maintain control they will see how bad the situation actually is.

It's not a regular thing, and dsd does not present as some poor wee soul - at all! Her mum had a pretty rubbish upbringing herself, so is maybe struggling to parent in the absence of her own role model, and is also v temperamental - she often phones to hurl abuse at dp, shouting and screaming, and then the next day acts like nothing happened. I think dsd is just copying her mum, and is a similar highly strung personality.

Not that it makes any of it ok - obviously.
I think the reason it happens more with mum is simply because she is the resident parent, and has to get v reluctant dsd out of bed and to school in the morning (one of the main "flashpoints"). Although having said that, dsd came to stay with us for a while earlier in the year and was up and organised every morning without a murmur....perhaps I gave her no reason to imagine I would put up with anything less, and my 2 have a routine every morning that she slotted into quite happily.
She has lashed out at dp on occasion, but never to the same extent as she does her mum. I don't know if this makes a difference but, dsd says she can't help her anger and can't conrol it, but she never kicks off with her friends, at school, or with me. Not once. Which makes me think that she can control it, but feels safe maybe to vent with mum and dad? Either that, or she doesn't repect them, so doesn't care if she upsets them? She certainly doesn't seem remorseful, and expects everyone to "just forget it".
It is getting more and more difficult to try and stay calm and not get involved too much - I wish I could do something to help - all of them, really - but I know dp's ex wouldn't want my involvement AT ALL.
Her fiance seems to be able to just switch off and ignore the banshees screaming round about his home - remarkable really, I certainly wouldn't be able to live there.....and of course lets not forget that dp had originally phoned to say happy birthday to dsd2, who was under her bed crying while this latest incident was going on.

brdgrl - what do I do though? Phone the keyworker and tell her myself? As Chandler Bing once said..."can open...worms everywhere".