Christmas... how do we come to an agreement?

[tisnearlytheseason]

I've name-changed.

My DH and his ex are finding it impossible to agree on xmas. In the past he has spent xmas day with her and the children.

This year she doesn't want to do that because it's too much work. So we offered to host xmas lunch (we're about 45 mins away) but she doesn't want to do that. This afternoon she said that she wants to take the children away for the day.

I'm not really fussed about xmas (i don't have any family and it's never been a big deal for me - i tend to avoid it) but I know that the children will want:

• to wake up at their mum's
• for their dad to be there for present opening and probably a meal (please note that they do joint xmas and bday gifts)

What do others do in this situation? Is it worth thinking about mediation? If so, how would my DH go about it?

I think you'd be best to go along with what the ex suggests, and try to make the kids feel good about it. Maybe she wants a bit more distance in her life and feels uncomfortable all being like a family at Christmas when they're not for the rest of the year? I can understand that really.

Would suggest having boxing day, or some other day that suits to celebrate Christmas with the kids at yours. Me and my ex have sometimes had a "mini Christmas" as we call it if I'm taking the DCs away for Christmas itself, we exhange presents and share a meal together (the only one in the year!). The kids love it, but I feel happier doing something different for Christmas itself without making everyone kind of sad for the family unit that doesn't really exist any more.

Kids can get used to things being different I think. And they're unlikely to complain if they were to get a separate present from their mum and their dad, two christmas dinners, etc!

It's good advice and where we started off originally (were going to do xmas on 26th). However, when DH suggested that his ex refused on the grounds that she wants the children (10 and 12) to receive joint presents, she wants to have them on boxing day (and xmas eve) and she said that she thought DH should see the children on xmas day (although I'm not sure that's important to her anymore given that she now wants to go away).
I don't know what her reasons are, except that she has recently split from her boyfriend and can accept that she may be feeling lonely so I want to be as kind as possible.
So, AIBU in thinking that if presents are being given jointly then both parents should be there when they are given?
If I am then fair enough but if not, how can we get a compromise that works for both DH and his ex?

absolutely, exh and I do joint presents for DS1, despite me being remarried with 2 small children, he always comes up for present openings, its a little odd, but DS likes it, it had been going on a long time before i met DH and just continued, if I told him he couldnt see DS christmas day, then he wouldnt pay and DS would be upset (even at 16, in fact as he is getting older he is becoming more aware his dad is alone)

exh still comes with us for christmas dinner, a good compromise would be your DH going up there to open presents with them and breakfast, then meeting you somewhere for dinner, then them coming over late christmas night or early boxing day (depending on whether your christmas day involved vino) - her taking them away is not on

unfortunealey from the other side of the fence, she can do what she likes, DH hasnt seen his DCs on christmas day for 6 years - sometimes up to a month after christmas

Sounds like she's muddled about what she wants. If she's taking them away, he can't be there, can he? No YANBU to expect that if DH contributes to the presents, then he should be there to give them.

MJ - is it really true that she can do what she likes?
Is this something that would be considered far too trivial for mediation?
Or is mediation pretty rubbish anyway?

This is a minefield for me. Normally I would just sit back and let it all happen but in this case I think that the kids aren't being put at the centre of the decision...

I dont think she is muddled, I think she knows exactly what she wants, the kids to herself (not as usual), with your DH paying for their christmas presents, as usual.

you could go to meditation (for which you would probably have to pay), but the mediator cant enforce anything.

DH has clearly defined court orders, which his ex ignored wheneever she felt like it, and once DSD hit 15 and they couldnt be enforced, is slowly but surely canning all contact by pressurising DSD

Legally , if she has residence then I think she can take them away if she likes, unless you have a court order/residence agreement/etc that specifies otherwise.

Some people have orders that specify alternate Christmases at each household.

as many on here can attest to, even clearly defined court orders about christmas mean nothing (sorry to appear to be contradicting you purpleroses)

my best advice is to leave them argue it out amongst themselves and stay well out of it.

Thank you ladies.
MJ - your advice to butt out is good. I will take a deep breath and regardless of what happens invite my DH's parents to ours on the 27th so that the children can have a 2nd dinner, see their grandparents and receive presents from me and the GPs.
Urgh - I know there are some crap dads out there (mine for example) but the system doesn't make it easy for the good dads does it?

Christmas is so hard. It seems that your DH ex wants everything - xmas eve and day and boxing day - but she doesn't want to do any work?

I think MJ's situation is a good one and it works for them but I know it wouldn't work for me - it really comes down to what you can all live with. In my experience it doesn't get any easier so make sure you have something now that everyone can live with as you may end up with that every year.

I think MJ's idea for your DH to go over there in the morning while his dc's open their presents is a good one. He can then come back and have lunch with you and you can all get together again on 27th with the rest of the family and have a lovely time.

We always alternate Boxing Day and Christmas Day. As you live so close, it seems as if there should be scope between all three days for you to have your own time with the kids. It does sound as if the ex is being selfish here - I think you either decide that you will do joint presents and both be there or agree separate times to see the kids over Christmas and start giving separate gifts. I sometimes think this is a more emotional issue for the parents than the kids - certainly ours have never had a problem splitting Christmas between their two families. Perhaps take the path of least resistance this year but on the basis that they agree a fairer system in future years.

Time for separate presents - and separate celebrations. Is this the first year that you have been on the scene?

We always have dh's children on boxing day, we feel they should spend christmas day with their mother, they have always been happy with this and it has worked really well, when they were younger they would have 2 christmas's, father christmas would leave presents at both houses so they had 2 days of opening presents (made it last longer), now they are older they still come over boxing day but its a lot more layed back, not as many presents (as we give them cash) and they bring presents for the dd's and us and sometimes we go to the sales in the afternoon to spend their money. Works well for us.

dearheart - This is the third year I've been on the scene (although first married xmas).
I agree that it's time for separate presents/celebrations and if it was my choice then I would replicate Marne's xmas.
We are no further forward on coming to an agreement but ex has said that they are now staying at home. I am trying to stay out of it. Deep down I don't want to spend a big chunk of xmas day on my own and I'm a bit afraid that's what's going to happen... but if I put my foot down and the ex puts her foot down then DH will see it as a choice between me and his kids which is the last thing I want.

i did the joint christmas thing for awhile but it was very slowly destroying my love of christmas, ex and his father would come up and spend the day i would cook etc. so this year i said no more. my eldest was upset which made realise i should have done it from the beginning. but the two christmas things have sold it. mediation can be a fab way to air feelings and if you get a good one they can be fab at helping you come to a mutual conclusion.
if you dont want to spend xmas on your own be really honest about that, dont do the new wife thing of not saying it and being miserable that way lies resentment. not saying you should put your foot down etc but just be really honest about how that would make you feel.
separate christmas's is probably the way froward and it sounds like you dh is letting his ex make all the decisions he can have a say to.