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Feeling the strain with DP and his three DC living with DS and me. How can we make it work? Long - sorry ...

16 replies

GrumbleBum · 29/10/2011 00:53

We've known each other for years, have always got along well, there's a chemistry between us, and it's been easy slipping into being together. We want to make it work.

He has three children ranging in age from toddlerhood to eight. I have one DS, who's seven. A month or so ago, DP moved in with us, along with his children too, just under half the time (he's pushing for 50:50, and we may be living with court action soon, too).

What's working? Well, his children like me - even say they love me - which I realise is positive, and could be so much worse. I'm fond of them, and treat them with kindness. My DS is fond of DP - they have a bit of fun together. DS is also fond of DP's youngest. And all DP's children love my DS - look up to him in a way - and like having him around. We've all done some fun things together - bike rides, den-building, watching films, etc - and tried to create some positive shared memories.

What's not working? Argh - where to start?! Since DP has moved in, I have gone from looking forward to his DC being around to resenting them coming to stay. The house fast turns into a tip, and DP doesn't have time to tidy up after them for a day or two sometimes, where he's so tied up with their needs, and then work, and then sleep (recovering!) - since his youngest sleeps dreadfully, and his eldest gets up very early. Today, I seethed around the place thinking, I want it tidy, but I don't want to be clearing their dumped clothes/his dumped bags out of the lounge/hall. Even now, the stuff's still sat here, because DP is exhausted and went to bed hours ago.

My DS and his eldest clash - sometimes very badly. My DS wanted them all to move in - but now often doesn't want them to be here, especially not at Christmas (which is possible). DP's eldest has an awful relationship with his mother, and perhaps this is why he is latching on to me with lots of hugs and seeking attention - which DS feels threatened by (understandably). DS and DP's eldest are also at school together, and his eldest is being rough and mean at school, according to DS and his friends. No surprises that DS seems on edge when DP's children are here then.

Yesterday, the children all ran off to one of their bedrooms and within minutes there was a fight, and tears, and then the traumatized youngest threw up - and my DS and DP's eldest were giving different accounts of what happened, and I believe DS (who, incidentally, was no saint in all this) and DP is more inclined to believe his eldest. The atmosphere was awful.

Our loyalties to our respective children seem to be driving us apart, when we should be finding ways to work as a blended family together. I have decided - weary of the tensions between the children and sick of DS's usual self (and the quality of time I normally have with him) getting lost in the chaos of such a full house - to switch the weekend arrangements with DS's flexible dad, so that DS is here one weekend, and then DP's children the next. DS and I will stay at my parents' house one night a week to keep the peace, too. It seems nuts, spending nights away from our home to avoid them - but I want peace, and unbroken sleep, and not to be woken up at silly o'clock by his kids crying/shouting/fighting, and for DS to feel settled again. I had a day with just him and me today, and he was a different child; it was wonderful.

Inevitably, DP's and my relationship is getting lost in all this. Where we previously had every other weekend without the children, which was lovely, we're just not getting that time now. His ex switched the weekends for a couple of months over the summer. And now I'm switching them to save DS's and my sanity/bond. The confusion now is, when DS isn't here but with his dad, should I be mucking in and helping to parent DP's three DC all weekend, or do I make the most of my DS-free weekend and get on and do what I want to do - being friendly and involved with them if I happen to be around? It's a big ask to spend every other weekend looking after your partner's three children, while your own child isn't around, and this is the only "me" time you'd otherwise get. But maybe that's what I should be doing? Hmm.

This week, I resented helping look after three kids who, between them, bring out the worst in DS, don't eat my cooking, leave their stuff lying around, spill stuff on my carpets, wake me up ridiculously early, etc. I'm hormonal, which probably isn't helping, but I resent them too because I always wanted another child, and instead of nurturing my own second child, I'm running around after my partner's three and as fond of them as I am (and I truly am! I've just hit a real low with it all in the last few days), I don't love them; I almost resent them for not being the one(s) I never had.

DP and I argued tonight about the children fighting yesterday. DP asked for a hug and I just couldn't give him one (which I now feel bad about - he went to bed hours ago); I feel so cross and unconnected - because of the mess, the different outlooks with respect to the children, the fact that he has next to no time/energy for me in amongst all the kid/work stuff (even though I understand how all-consuming they both are).

I'm wondering, with children this young (and two who really clash), if it's unrealistic to make living together work, because we're each so wrapped up in our kids (him in his youngest especially). When we didn't live together, DP got exhausted dashing to/from me on his nights without the children, so living apart wasn't sustainable either.

I love DP. He's kind and decent. He's a lovely dad. He's easy-going. Is there any way we can make this work?

OP posts:
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UC · 29/10/2011 10:20

Have a feeling this may be long.... Step parenting is the hardest thing I have ever done.

I could have written that message a year ago, after DP and I moved in together. We have 2 DSs each. The eldest 2 clashed massively, just as you describe. After about 3 months we discussed splitting because of all the clashing, arguments, fighting between the kids. It led to fighting between us too. We didn't split, and slowly slowly things have improved. I remember the first weekend we managed to get through without me wanting to murder either one of the children (or all of them!), or DP was a milestone.

It is very difficult not to feel you want to protect your own children, support your own children - it's instinctive. But you have to fight in yourself to be fair, to listen to all sides. A year down the line, and things are much more settled. DP said right from the start that much of the fighting between my eldest and his eldest was about pecking order between the children. It took time for them to work out their pecking order. I had to fight with myself not to get involved too much - my wading in and sorting out their arguments all the time actually made it worse, as the "solution" was then imposed from above, not something that they had worked out themselves. I also found it difficult to accept how physical boys are - they fight, and 5 minutes later they've forgotten it.

I read "Siblings without rivalry" and it really helped - it's all about getting the children to start resolving their own problems, helping them communicate effectively with eachother.

The one thing I always say to myself is that the children didn't choose to live with eachother. DP and I chose to live with eachother, and they got it foisted upon them. It WILL take time, but you and DP have to communicate with eachother, talk things through. We actually went and had some counselling sessions to talk about some of these issues, and to learn better ways to communicate with eachother and the kids. Remember that these children are adjusting. And they are children who have already (presumably) lived through a break up of their initial family unit. Keep talking to them, keep reassuring them that you love them.

Personally I wouldn't swap the weekends so that you keep the children separate, not all the time. They will never get a bond going then, and you may find it just makes things worse. If you stay together, they all need to start viewing your house as their joint home - not as DS's home where DP's kids come to stay when he isn't there, or DP's kids' home, where DS sometimes stays when they aren't there. In the long term, I would be afraid that it will make the situation worse. I also think swapping the weekends could enable the children to feel that if they behave badly enough ie. fight enough, you will swap things around to make it easier for them. Not helpful if you want to build a bond between them.

One thing I did was to start to arrange play dates/visits out for one afternoon during the weekends we were all here just for me and my DSs. It gave us time together on our own, DP time with his DSs on their own. They and we all needed that. Remember you don't have to do everything together all the time.

As for not eating your food, leaving stuff lying around - you and DP need to discuss joint rules that apply in your home - regardless of what happens when they are at their other home. The rules for the children in your house need to apply equally to all the children. E.g. we have rules about shoes off, school bags in a particular place, coats hung up, toys away after playing in the right place. You need to enforce them. You and DP TOGETHER. You have to act as a team, so that ALL of the children see you as a partnership, working together. For that, I read "the Step parent's parachute" - it argues that fundamentally, you and your partner need to be a team, work together, back eachother up, set joint groundrules and then stick to them. The children can be involved in setting some of those rules. Yes, it's hard to start with, but 20 months in, we are really seeing the benefits here. Even if I don't agree with DP sometimes, I never say so in front of the children. I save that row for later!!!

Good luck....

UC · 29/10/2011 16:06

I've been thinking about you this afternoon, GrumbleBum. I re-read your post and I wonder is your DP a bit Disney dad with his DCs? It's where you talk about his stuff and their stuff lying around. Why is he tidying up after them and taking a couple of days? Why aren't they being encouraged to take some responsibility for themselves and their own things?

I really do think your situation would be vastly improved if the kids could see you and DP working together, and setting boundaries that you stick to.

UC · 29/10/2011 16:11

Also, make sure you take some time every day that is sacrosanct with your DS - maybe half an hour at bedtime. Time that is just for you and him. I do this with both my DSs. We read together, and this is the time when I can cuddle them both, tell them I love them, listen to any woes they may have. Reassure your DS that he is still special to you.

I would also talk to your DS and DP's DS's teachers, to let them know the situation. They can help with the situation at school.

Out of interest, what does DP do on the weekends only your DS is there? Does he do his own thing? I think you need to talk to DP about this, and find a workable solution for you.

RandomMess · 29/10/2011 16:16

4 children compared to 1 do create a lot more untidiness and chaos. I think a starting point would be to think practically where their stuff will live so it won't be lying around and putting stuff away as they go is part of the automatic routine - get dp on board with this.

School bags have a home, coats have a home, shoes have a home and they do it all themselves (with some help for the youngest) it is essential when you have so many dc.

I would ensure the 2 eldest have some time apart over the weekend and tbh I would be wary about having them playing out of ear shot so much whilst things are so tense between them. We keep art and craft and some games downstairs. I think you should try managing their activities a bit differently for a while.

Nothing wrong with you and ds doing the supermarket shop together on a weekend for a bit of alone time - followed by a drink.

Def read siblings without rivarly and their other book "how to talk" It will help you resolve argurments differently as well as creating a more open atmosphere.

glasscompletelybroken · 29/10/2011 18:17

I read your post this morning and have just re-read it and the bit that jumps out at me is I feel so cross and unconnected - because of the mess, the different outlooks with respect to the children, the fact that he has next to no time/energy for me in amongst all the kid/work stuff (even though I understand how all-consuming they both are).

My DH is exactly like this. All the time his dc's are here - which is half the time - he is running around entertaining them and wearing himself out in the process. I can barely get a conversation in and there is no "real life" stuff going on.

I think all the children are old enough to put there own things away and you and your DH should set some firm house rules around this and also food.

Don't let your needs be completely swamped by everyone elses. It's important to all these kids that your relationship works - more important than them having an easy hotel existance.

SingingTunelessly · 29/10/2011 22:48

Whoah, whoah... Seriously. You are being completely taken over here. There is a lovely poster called redhen who has similar problems. I'm not convinced that changing weekends, etc., does help tbh.

You say living apart wasn't sustainable? Why exactly - if you and your Dc are paying the price for trying to do the 'happy family'?

theredhen · 30/10/2011 09:51

I have the utmost sympathy and can empathise with your situation sooo much.

DP has 4 kids who are with us abour 30% of the time, it was 40% and DP is starting court proceedings to bring that back. I too have 1 DS.

I understand the feeling of resentment of bringing up kids that aren't yours and the vast amounts of emotional and physical energy it takes from you and from your DP and the sadness at not being able to use that energy for another child of my own.

I am coming to the conclusion that I simply can't live with the situation any more. DP is a decent, nice, kind person but I find it impossible to talk about the kids despite my best efforts and kind words. It too find myself not being able to cuddle him because I am so full of resentment and upset and it's a viscous circle where he then stops trying to talk to me because I simply cannot stand the upset of another (what I feel) is grossly unfair and unbalanced argument.

It must be very hard for you having such young children. The youngest here is 8 and the 4 others are teenagers. DP kids too get up early and I find I am far more sleep deprived than I was when DS was a baby! DP gets very tired too and I often have to wake him up on the sofa so he can send his kids to bed!

If I am being brutally honest, I think the following would work for me and could enable me to live with the situation;

The main thing would be less contact at home. I would never ask DP to stop seeing his kids but I would simply like more time with DS and less time with DSC, if I'm honest. I know this isn't realistic for our situation but Sat AM to Sun tea time once a fortnight, would be so much better for me and for DS. I understand that DP would hate it and that DP's ex wouldn't like less "me" time but I actually think the kids would be OK with it. If DP were to take ALL his kids out and give me some space now and again, I really think this would help. Could your DP do that? I'd like to holiday seperately too. I went away with DS for a short week in the summer holidays and it was like a breath of fresh air not having 5 whinging moaning kids.

As like you, DP kids don't always bring out the best qualities in my DS. I think only children will always try and compete and "shout louder" to get an equal amount of attention to the others.

Although DP kids and DS don't really fight and argue, they do bully him a bit and say harsh words, (they are all older) and I find myself really feeling the need to stick up for him against them which probably just makes them jealous of him and do it all the more. DSD2 regularly tells people that my son is "sad" and has no friends despite DS having friends here far, far more often than any of DP kids and when he doesn't have friends round all DP kids follow DS round like his shadow!

I understand the need to swap weekends and I don't necessarily think it is a bad idea although perhaps, not all the time. You do need time with DS and that is a way of getting it. But you also need time to yourself and with DP and by swapping weekends you are sacrificing that also. Because we all need quiet time to have a long bath, watch a film , sit in our PJ's etc. and when you have kids there all weekend, what sort of quality time are you really going to get?

Do you think your DP would agree to live apart but still have a relationship? I would love to go back to doing that and having the "balance" that I crave for me, DS and DP and his kids too. I wish my DP would understand how unhappy I am and want to help me feel better, but I am coming to the conclusion he is actually quite selfish and doesn't really care if I am happy or not, as long as I am here in his home with his kids.

GrumbleBum · 31/10/2011 01:23

Thank you for the replies ? I didn't think anyone would get all the way through my long and rather glum post! We've been busy for a few days ? sorry not to have replied sooner.

UC, thank you for your post ? so many helpful insights and tips in there. I have How To Talk ? and was thinking of getting Siblings Without Rivalry, not least because DP's children fight even if my DS isn't in the frame. Sounds as though getting it (and reading it!) could be a good plan. The tricky thing is finding the time to read these books in the busyness of it all. I'm about 50 pages into Parachute; DP has just started reading it on the loo. And I have a good relationships book I'm working through, and which I'd like DP to read too; it would be good to read it together. We're the glue in all this ? if we don?t work, nothing does. But it's finding the time.

I do think I'm fair with the children, and often feel I am too negative with DS when DP's children are here: DS gets edgier and becomes his least reasonable, and I get firm with him ? and then feel my interactions with him are biased towards the negative. This isn't how I want our weekends together to be at all, defined by his worst behaviour and my coming down hard on him, but if he's unsettled/unhappy with DP's children around, and then his behaviour worsens because of this, I can't ignore it; he needs disciplining all the same.

I am trying to make it feel as though it is the home of all six of us, although it is my house (and I suppose it feels like my/DS's territory), and I've lived in it with just DS for four years, so I can't shake off this sense of ownership overnight ? and won't entirely, because I have every intention of retaining it as my property (i.e not jointly owning it).

Before they all moved in, I set up a shoe shelf in the porch for each of them, a box for their school bags/gloves/hats ? and labelled them. The little one is too young to get it, the middle one's pretty good, but the older two (my DS and DP's eldest) are pretty rubbish with putting their stuff away as they come in. They all need to be nagged to tidy their stuff up ? they all leave toys all over the place ? and they all often change in the living room and leave whatever clothes they?re changing out of (pyjamas, uniform, etc) on the floor/sofa. They all leave their breakfast dishes out on the table. I'm used to clearing up after just one, but I'm really feeling the hike to four lots! And I suppose it highlights the importance of DS having to pull his weight more.

DP's kids' bath toys are still sat in the bath from three nights ago ... DP is messy too. Things get dumped in the hall/lounge and sit there for days. I've tried talking with DP. He says that he's been busy getting wood for the fire for us all ? which he has. He is chief woodsman (and he really does make a massive contribution to the household by sourcing and chopping up free wood), and I am chief grocery shopper/cook. I don't mind the latter. I tolerate the former. But I hate constantly clearing up the kitchen. I don't want to be doing this on my own most of the time, especially now there are more of us and there's more stuff to clear up. And even if we have a lot of wood to get in or whatever, I don't want mess lingering for days; I want people to be able to pop in and me not feel embarrassed/ashamed.

I'm inclined to be messy too, and I hate this tendency in myself and have to work at keeping it under control (and I do fail) ? and so I feel completely out of control when other people are adding to the mess, too! It feels overwhelming.

Yes, DP and I do need to set some rules. We keep meaning to do that with the children. It's finding a moment to do it (the toddler demands so much attention, which makes this harder).

As for feeling like a team: I don't really. Not at the moment. Things have felt so much better. But at the moment, I feel our "emotional bank account" as a couple is so low that the tiniest remark can carry so much weight. I was stacking wood today and DP moved a few bits around on my pile, and I was so cross! I felt undermined. It feels like we can't weather the odd little thing like this at the moment. He still wants sex. I need to feel more connected to be having it, otherwise I'm ending up feeling used.

For this to work, we do need to reunite as a team. You're right. I'll read up on this in Parachute. (By the way, DP isn't Disney-style with his parenting. He's pretty fair and good fun, really.)

DP has spoken to school about his eldest's behaviour, and to his eldest himself. What DP really struggles with ? and what his eldest craves ? is one-to-one time with each of his children. The toddler monopolises his time, simply because toddlers are demanding. And while his eldest would benefit from more one-to-one time with his dad, this isn't easy when you're not with the children's other biological parent, and you can each rotate having quality time with one child at a time. When he has his children, he's (pretty much) on his own, with me helping a bit here and there (especially with the practical stuff like cooking meals). I think DP finds this tough; he'd like to give more time to his eldest, and it would probably help his behaviour.

UC, I am really pleased that your situation has improved so much - for your sake, but also because it's encouraging for me, that it can get better from feeling this ropy.

RandomMess ? yes, good point about making sure all their stuff has a home. We're getting there with this, but aren't completely there yet. Not all my stuff has a home! ? and I really don't expect the place to be perfect. It rarely has been immaculate. But this would help with keeping fairly tidy and organised.

As for routine, and enforcing rules about tidying up, we struggle with this (not least because we haven't set hard-and-fast rules yet!) because every day is different: some days, it's just DS (who has a later bedtime and a bedtime routine with me that's different from DP's kids' routine); some days it's all four of them (and DP's eldest, who is a lark and will get up at 5am ? or earlier ? and who believes, being the oldest, that he should go to bed latest); some days, some/all of us are eating elsewhere (grandparents) and don't get back until bath time or later ? and every weekend is different. This makes scheduling a regular tidying slot difficult. And it will only work if DP and I are keeping our stuff tidy too. I don't know how we'll tackle this.

We rarely let the kids play out of sight/earshot. We'd been eating all together last week and the kids (we thought) happily took themselves off to play and we dared to mutter something like, "This is encouraging ?" ? and it all ended in tears. And sick. So we will continue to police them as we have been.

As for food, I've suggested DP cooks more for his DC when they're here. I don't mind doing the grocery shopping. But I don't like cooking decent food and it not being touched (or discreetly dropped on the floor, as DP's middle ? and fussiest ? DC is given to doing). I'm not used to it with DS, who eats most stuff, and I find it demoralising.

SingingTunelessly ? living apart wasn't sustainable because DP was becoming exhausted. He was getting so tired being up with his DC on the nights he has them, then coming over to me for a night, and squeezing in (very) late-at-night grocery shops and packing overnight bags to come here on the nights he needed to flop and recover from two broken nights. That's why it didn't work. (Where he was living before, we couldn't go over to stay with him ? and I have my DS with me most of the time anyway.)

theredhen ? thanks for your empathy. I really value this. No one else in my circle of friends/community is attempting to make a set-up like this work, and it can feel isolating. Although lots of people have said, "Blimey! THREE extra kids! You're brave! And how is your DS coping?" I seem to have experienced a delay in realising the magnitude of what I'm taking on! I'm constantly thinking about it at the moment ? sometimes fantasising about being free and single and having sole responsibility for the state of the house and having lots of chilled time with DS and getting a dog ? and sometimes thinking that DP is a lovely person - a good man - and worth making a go of this with ? and sometimes thinking I'm being ungrateful and unreasonable and unkind to have negative thoughts about DP/his children/this arrangement. It's reassuring to know that actually, it's a huge undertaking and potentially very stressful, and lots of these feelings are pretty normal and human. You make it sound so OK to be feeling this way ? so I don't feel quite so guilty now!

Yes, I do feel a real sadness not to be having another child of my own. DP has said that he wouldn't take much persuading, and he is a lovely dad ? so good with his DC. But even if it's possible for me to have another child with him, I have to be realistic: at the moment, there's barely enough time/money between us for the four we collectively have ? and if our relationship is struggling as it is, how would a fifth help?! I do feel sad, though; I feel as though I'm grieving some of the time, because I see him putting all this effort and energy and love into children that aren't mine, and I wish instead we could have met earlier and had a child together. In the current scenario, this just seems like a crazy idea, and as such, by staying together, I'm likely to be choosing to forfeit having another child, which saddens me sometimes.

I'm so sorry to hear your situation isn't working out, theredhen. But it sounds as though you're getting few positives out of the arrangement. I keep thinking to myself that for this living arrangement to justify itself, we have both ? all ? got to be getting a lot out of mine and DP's relationship; there have got to be enough positives of being together to outweigh the challenges of all the children. At times it's felt as though we have been plenty strong enough, but at the moment it doesn't; we're clashing over housework, point-scoring over who's done this and that, we're cooler with each other, and we're clashing over the children. And we have so little time for us.

I need to talk some more with DP about all this ? maybe show him this thread. I think he needs to understand how much of a big deal it is for me and DS for him and his DC to have all moved in with us - not to feel guilty about it, but to be able to be understanding with me when I find it overwhelming. And no matter how busy life gets, we have to prioritise us as a couple, and find ways to tackle problems together, otherwise something so challenging as this isn't going to work.

theredhen, I hope either that your set-up changes for the better ? and soon ? or that you're able to make the move to going solo again. If your DP doesn't really care if you're happy or not, as long as you're around, that's bloody awful, and you ? and DS ? will ultimately be much better off as a team just the two of you. Wishing you happiness.

OP posts:
GalaxyWeaver · 31/10/2011 12:33

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theredhen · 31/10/2011 13:45

The thing that strikes me about your posts is that you seem to feel incredibly guilty for feeling the way you do. You also seem to justify your DP's behaviour and see it as your "problem" to deal with. You said "living apart wasn't sustainable because DP was becoming exhausted. He was getting so tired being up with his DC on the nights he has them, then coming over to me for a night, and squeezing in (very) late-at-night grocery shops and packing overnight bags to come here on the nights he needed to flop and recover from two broken nights".

The thing is hindsight is a great thing but he was probably just looking for someone to take the pressure off him and you probably wanted to help because you love and care for him. The reality is that you are doing a lot of giving to him and his DC whilst not really getting much back simply because he hasn't got any emotional energy left to give! Whilst I think it is great you understand this is the way things are, I do think you mustn't give up on wanting something back for yourself. You are only human and relationships are two way things and it's up to your DP to find a way to give that to you even if it means living apart and seeing less of each other but making it quality time. Perhaps he needs to realise that fighting for more time with his kids is going to have an impact on you and DS too, and not necessarily a positive one.

I think it must be incredibly stressful and put a strain on any relationship having 4 or 5 biological children together, so the strain is obviously going to be even stronger when the biological bond isn't there. Don't be hard on yourself but also remember that you are important in all this too and your wellbeing should be on the list too.

NanaNina · 31/10/2011 18:52

So so sorry you are going through this GrumbleBum (even the name suggests you think you are just an old grumbler!) I read your post but have to admit I haven't read the responses because they were so long and I'm sure very helpful to you.

I am now in my late 60s and went through something similar to your position over 40 years ago and I was miserable, exhausted, ending up really resenting the Step kids and the disney dad, and the arguments we had about whether it was my kids fault or his kids. I lost the best years of my life and my own children suffered, as did the step kids of course. If I had my time again I would run to the hills rather than get involved with a man with kids, especially 3 of them!

Sorry I know this isn't helpful but I was just struck by the similarities.

SingingTunelessly · 31/10/2011 21:47

"I am now in my late 60s and went through something similar to your position over 40 years ago and I was miserable, exhausted, ending up really resenting the Step kids and the disney dad," ..... That has really struck a chord NanaNina. I think we keep on battling through the days thinking it will get better. It doesn't really does it. Sad

UC · 01/11/2011 09:22

For some of us it does get better. Honestly.

NanaNina · 01/11/2011 17:51

Hi singingtunelessly - none of us can look into the future so there is no definite answer. Some posters seem to think improvements have been made in their living situation. UC says "it does get better honestly" but that is her experience and I'm pleased for her, but that doesn't mean it is going to get better for others. I just think that one thing for sure is that the stress to a greater or lesser extent continues.........though it changes as the kids go through the age ranges. In my case that made things worse!

charlearose · 01/11/2011 22:47

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charlearose · 01/11/2011 23:01

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