Just need to get this off my chest

[Petal02]

DH has arranged to do rugby coaching for our local ?under 12s? on SS?s midweek night. When this first came up, I knew DH was really keen to do the coaching, and I?m very happy for him to do this. I asked what he?d do about SS?s midweek night, and he said he?d speak to SS and get him to swap his midweek night for another night ? fair enough. But on Friday I heard SS telling DH that he doesn?t want to change his midweek night and still wants to come over as usual, even though DH won?t be in. DH caved in straight away, and agreed that he?d leave work early on those evenings, so that he could collect SS from college, and drop him off at our house before going to rugby ??.

Two things here: firstly it seems insane that DH should want to bring SS to our house on an evening when he?s not in (and even more insane that SS should want this to happen), but hey ? the rota always wins; and secondly, (and most importantly) what really makes me angry is that DH and I had already made an agreement between ourselves, that we?d change the midweek night, but SS is allowed to over-rule this.

On a practical level, the above won?t have an enormous impact on me, as it?s DH who does all the running around, and I fully expect (hope?) that SS will spend such evenings in his bedroom on the computer, but it?s the principle that grates ? we go to such stupid lengths to adhere to the rota, and also that DH is quite happy to undermine me.

Sorry for ranting.

You?re spot-on Redhen, he?s so scared of losing the ?love? of SS, that he goes to ridiculous lengths to keep in favour, and rational thought goes out the window. As regards everything else in life, DH is generally quite sane with everything else, and always consults me, and wouldn?t dream of over-riding my wishes.

I don?t think either of them are too bothered how much time they actually spend together, just so long as SS is under our roof. That seems to be the only thing that matters. I can?t get DH to see how ridiculous this is (I mean, I don?t visit my father when he?s not home), and I?m really struggling to cope with my frustration this week.

I was interested to read that you think I should go out on rugby training evenings ? because this is exactly what I plan to do! Otherwise I fully expect SS will take over the lounge with his X-Box, or he?ll be watching cartoons, leaving me to either sit in the kitchen to retreat upstairs to my bedroom. Which is just madness. And whilst my absence will have little effect on either of them, it will indeed make me feel a little better.

I feel your frustration, this sounds completely ridiculous! I'm also really surprised that at 17, your dss is still so keen to stick to the rota. I'm sorry if I've missed something you might have posted earlier...but is your dss asd at all? Ds1 is - and this sounds like behavior I could expect from him were he in your dss's shoes.

I don't think SS has any 'dis-orders', it's simply years of being ferried between two houses as per the rota, almost to be the point of being brainwashed, being very lazy, a naturally introverted personality, and wanting his Dad to be his best friend/social life (because it's less hassle than making friends). Of course DH wants all SS's visits to be as special as possible, so there are no chores, mundane stuff etc etc, just endless supplies of fizzy drinks/junk food, as much TV/computer time as SS wants and an impressive supply of the latest electronic gadgets. Teenage heaven.

I realised yesterday (god knows why it took me so long) that in just under one year, SS will be 18. It almost scared me - and if we're still sticking to the rota then, welll god help me. I asked DH if he thought it strange that SS still wants the rota at his age, and DH said he thought it was quite normal. Although I saw a fllcker of something else in his face - to be honest I suspect DH would prefer a more age-appropriate relationship, but his fear of 'losing' SS over-rides this.

Right - I hope you don't think I was out of order asking? It just seems so far removed from other teenagers I know. Dp is struggling at the moment because dsd1 is point blank refusing come at weekends because she wants to be with her friends and just out okaaay - although I don't think he'd want the situation that you're facing either.

Why doesn't SS go to the rugby and help his dad?

2blessed2bstressed ? no, I didn?t mind you asking. This question has been raised before on this board. No one in real life has ever suggested it, DH won?t hear of anyone suggesting that Little Bunnikins is anything less than a totally normal teenager, so all hell would break loose if I went anywhere near the subject. And to be honest, I don?t think there?s anything medical going on here.

But I agree it seems very removed from other teenagers of the same age. But DH insists SS?s behaviour is normal. Even though he knows darn fine it?s not.

I can understand why your DP is struggling because his daughter has suddenly acquired a social life, but I think this a quite a ?normal? problem, and I can understand why he wouldn?t want a child who behaved like SS.

Oddboots ? I would be delighted if SS wanted to help his Dad with the rugby training. But has zero interest in anything like that, and whilst DH has encouraged him to play sport, he won?t do it.

Oh grief, I wonder if he will be 25 and coming over to use your gadgets!! I'm not sure when it will stop..What does college/school say about your DSS? I just can't understand how any teen would prefer to be with parents rather than friends.

I also wonder what the payoff is for your DH, he is being driven by something - maybe it's an element of martydom - All the effort he puts in to see DS??? My DH did have a similar issue for several years with DSS (although he was much younger) Come what may he saw DSS even if there was a family emergencies (which happened and it was the straw that broke the camel's back).We went for counselling and DH finally got the message that it wasn't appropriate to act like this. Interestingly the more he acted like the adult/parent and said no occasionally the better his relationship became with DSS. DSS had in a polite way treated DH as a doormat.

I really don't know what to suggest - there is some dependency thing going on and maybe a family counsellor would help you make sense of it..It doesn't make sense to anyone else!!

I can't understand why either your SS or DH would want to have the contact on an evening when there can be no contact. I have a similar thing sometimes with my SS but he is almost ten years younger than yours - I am now scared as thought it was an age problem but maybe not!! I think we hope my SS will start to say 'no' to contact which will not actually be contact, and be keen to visit when he can do something nice with his mum.

I wonder if your SS basically has depression? A lot more teenagers have it than I thought and it can really limit desire to interact with anyone. On reading the thread I got the sense your SS doesn't enjoy doing anything really, which is definitely not normal behaviour - usually teenagers can muster up enough energy to do things like go to parties, cinema, meet friends, watch sport, get drunk???

Whatever it is, must be hard going, I think going out sounds a very good idea!

Do you get on with your SS? I'm just wondering if maybe the SS is doing this to wind you up. If he's caught wind of the fact that it irritates you, could he be purposely sticking to this ridiculous rota because he knows it gets to you?

I know it sounds far fetched but my friend has a similar issue going on and the SC in question has been heard saying she only goes to her father's house to piss off the stepmother.

yes, definitely do go out on that evening.
i know all to well the 'hiding in my room' feeling. go out and do something really enjoyable.

if it sends a message to them, so much the better.

Hi Petal - I've been having a think about this.
Thinking back to your attempt at 'flexibility' - DSS's resistance to this and DH's subsequent 'giving in'. I'm wondering whether, now that DSS effectively 'won' in that little episode, if he is now in a way defending his 'right' to this arrangement (whether you like it or not, and maybe to a degree because you don't), and sort of 'marking his territory'.

It may sound a little contrived at first - but this is a young adult who shows extreme resistance to change. Change was attempted - he told DH he didn't like it and DH agreed. In his mind, maybe he is almost festidiously (sp?) sticking to the rota on principle?

That's what I was trying to say allnew, you put it better than I did lol

It's almost like reminding everyone that he's most important.

It's a possibility - he is very stubborn when it comes to things like that. But what do i do about it?

Am I the only one who feels a bit sad for a SS whose Dad has arranged to do something else on the night in the week when they see each other? Especially when there is an issue with lack of flexibility from the SSs side.

Maybe he's a very unhappy lad who really struggles with friendships rather than it being a case of him not being bothered to make friends.

But in fairness to DH, surely he shouldn't have to decline a chance to play sport on a weeknight, just because he's got a 17 yr old son? If he had a 6 yr old who needed care, that would be different. By now, you would expect that SS would either have some sort of life of his own, or be robust enough to cope with a minor variation in routine? Or both? Plan A was that he would simply come over on a non-rugby night, therefore not reducing contact, simply moving it 24 hrs foward or back.

I can understand your frustration and I don't understand DH or DSS at all. Why drive out of your way to not spend time with someone? Why come over to your Dad's house for 'access' on a night when he's not going to be there and when he could come over a night earlier and get to see him.

I suspect that your DH's thought process is "If that's what DS wants then as a parent I should let him have what he wants".

Its almost like he cares more about doing what his son wants than actually seeing his son.

follyfoot - if her SS was 7 and not 17 I could see your point.

?It?s almost like he cares more about doing what his son wants, than actually seeing his son?

Absolutely - appeasing/indulging/placating SS seems to be far more important than spending time with him. So sticking to the rota does actually keep them apart at times. SS would rather come to us on a night when DH isn?t home, instead of varying the rota, and coming over on a night when he can see his Dad. SS is generally happy just so long as life rota-compliant. And DH is happy just so long as SS is happy. So you can how we?ve ended up here.

17 year olds really arent very old at all though NKUD. He sounds lonely and insecure - maybe sticking to a rota gives him some sort of security? I dunno.

follyfoot again can see you point for a much younger child but not for a 17yo

How many parents of 17yo's still can't do an evening event on one night a week because their 'child' needs them to stay home??

And in 12 months time he'll be 18. And I doubt much will have changed. So should DH not play sport midweek, due the access rota, when he's got an 18 yr old? It's totally ridiculous.

Part of a parent's job is to encourage independence though, not to pussyfoot around age-inappropriate insistence on routine

I quite agree - although I doubt DH's terror over 'losing' SS will recede much over the next 12 months. DH is quite happy for SS to be independent, and does encourage it, just so long as SS is OK about it. But the minute SS puts the breaks on, DH won't challenge things.

I'm becoming tempted to write DH a letter about this. Simply because if I raise this again at home, it will turn into a row, and then it gets hard to put my point across because I get het up. I want to say that I love him very much, have no intention to trying to stop him seeing his son, or reducing contact, however given SS is now 17 and attending college, surely we could have occasional flexibility? I realise that I won't get it all my own way, you always have to compromise in family situations, but surely SS shouldn't get it all HIS own way? Surely there's some middle ground, some way of compromising? I also want to point out that DH seems convinced that SS won't visit unless all the visits are completely on his terms. And that this fear can, at times, completely paralyse the household.

Hmm I'm still not sure. See, you mention DH's 'terror' over losing his DS. Maybe your SS has a similar terror? They sound very dependent on each other in an insecure clinging sort of way if that makes sense. Perhaps there is an awful lot of guilt from your DH and an awful lot of fear from both of them. Maybe your SS is terribly fearful of losing his Dad, and clings to his routine to still feel safe. It may not be age appropriate but that doesnt mean it might not be a factor in all of this.

"Hmm I'm still not sure. See, you mention DH's 'terror' over losing his DS. Maybe your SS has a similar terror? They sound very dependent on each other in an insecure clinging sort of way if that makes sense"

But if that is true then why wouldn't DSS have preferred to see DH eg the night before/after, when his father was actually going to be around?