I need DH to stick to his guns - advice please

[Petal02]

As most of the regulars will know, we have a very strict access rota for SS, who?s nearly 17, and leaves mainstream school at the end of May. Friday nights are a good example of the insanity: DH has to leave work early to collect SS from his mother?s at 4pm, whereas it would be far easier to pick him up at 5.30pm. Why don?t we change this? Because the rota states that Friday pick-ups happen at 4pm.

After Christmas, DH agreed that once SS finished his exams in May, it would be an appropriate time to cease the access rota, and have a flexible visiting arrangement. This was music to my ears, and DH assured me he?d told SS about it, and that it was all fine. This has been a real ?light at the end of the tunnel? to me, and it?s kept me going over the last few months.

Last night, SS was with us, and DH mentioned that he would be working away for a week in July. SS enquired if this would interrupt the access rota. I responded that as we would be on the flexible arrangements by then, it wouldn?t be an issue. You could have heard a pin drop, and SS asked when I meant by that. DH didn?t say a word. I cautiously said ?I thought your Dad had mentioned that when you finish your exams in May, that you?d be seeing us on a flexible basis.? SS replied that his Dad had suggested something like that for ?when he?s a bit older?, but hadn?t realised he meant imminently.

I was waiting for DH to jump in and overrule me, but he didn?t. He asked SS if he?d have any problems with this, SS hesitated and said he wasn?t sure, DH didn?t back-pedal ? and reassured him that if he wanted to visit us, he should let us know, and we?d arrange to collect him. SS was clearly not happy with this, and DH wrapped up the conversation and said we?d talk about it nearer the time.

SS then went upstairs, DH looked at me sheepishly. I really didn?t want a huge row. It was evident that DH had indeed spoken to SS about it, but apparently in very vague terms. DH went on to say that he definitely wants flexible arrangements, but ?it?s important we sell this carefully to SS, he doesn?t like change. Let?s leave it for now.? Admittedly SS doesn?t like change, but we?re not advocating anything enormous. He?s still welcome to visit, but simply on a flexible rather than rostered basis. He?s nearly 17, and if such minor changes traumatise him, then surely it?s time to toughen up slightly? Also, I don?t think should be SS?s decision whether or not we continue with the rota. DH is the parent, and whilst obviously he?ll want to be gentle with him, needs to be firm. I believe DH, when he says he doesn?t want to the rota any more, but I can tell he?s terrified of implementing even minor changes that may displease SS.

Later in the evening, I overheard SS/DH talking about this ? SS was concerned about the flexible proposal, and DH cautiously said all would be fine if we implement flexibility. So whilst it?s clear that DH is attempting to stay firm, I?m now quite worried about this. The thought of continuing a strict access rota for a school leaver is just bizarre. We have exactly the same days/timings that were put in place when SS was 10, and nothing has changed since. When SS had gone back upstairs, DH promised me we?d be dropping the rota, but said it has be approached very carefully. We weren?t arguing, and there weren?t raised voices, and I?m pleased at how I handled it. I?m just terrified that if SS puts up much resistance, DH will back down, and we?ll be stuck with this rota indefinitely. I know I need to proceed very carefully too; things have been easier at home just recently ? I believed the end was in sight regarding the rota, so I relaxed a bit. The thought of DH giving in is just incomprehensible.

Any advice please?

Sorry if I've missed it on this/another thread, but I take it he's not thinking of uni? D'you think he would have if it weren't for the dreaded rota?

Maybe he needs a short sharp shock - if he applies for jobs and gets laughed out of an interview because of an inability to work weekends... Surely, surely he'd be embarrassed to say "sorry I can't, I have to see my dad"? Maybe that would show him how ridiculous it is.

That is if he's actually intending on working at all.

I'd really worry about this level of anxiety about change.

Hi Freudian ? I don?t know if SS considers his own behaviour to be normal; he likes to spend his days watching TV, using the computer, play station etc ? no one ever challenges this, so it?s become accepted practice. As for my husband, I think he knows darn fine that it?s not normal, but he?d rather stick pins in his eyes than tackle the situation. As I said earlier, he always takes the line of least resistance. If I challenge the situation, it ends up in a row, so we all ignore the elephant in the room.

He does plan to go to Uni, but he?s just finishing his GCSEs now, and if he gets the right grades, will apply for sixth form in September. But in the meantime, DH wants him to get a job or do some voluntary work. SS isn?t keen, and of course it?s very hard to make someone seek work. If he gets work close to our house, he can?t get there when he?s at his Mothers, and vice versa. So he needs to get a job near his ?proper address? ie his mothers, and then visit us when he?s not working. But he doesn?t see it like this ? in his eyes, the access rota will continue, like night follows day, and he?ll have to be at specific places at specific times (like he?s done for the past six year) and there?s not a job on this planet that would accommodate that.

He needs to reverse his thinking ? and realise he should fit his visits to his Dad around his working hours, not the other way round. But he?s so clingy, DH fears upsetting him ? so I?m always the out-numbered villain when I suggest any sort of independence. However even if he elects not to seek any sort of work, I still think he?s too old for an access rota.

Sounds like he's been fobbed off by his mum.
His dad had him the required amount but didn't push for me.
You don't want him around more.

No wonder he's fucked up.

Youllskimmer - most stepchildren I know and have read about on forums have similar access arrangements to petal's DSS (albeit not to this age!). In facts this is the access pattern most frequently dolled out by the courts, despite when fathers "push for more".

So basically you're saying that all stepchildren with the normal access arrangements are destined to be fucked up

I suspect Youllskimmer is not a step parent.

I?m getting increasingly anxious about all this: last night DH was talking about something we?re hoping to do in July, and said ?before we book, can we just check it?s not going to clash with an access weekend ???..?

This is the man who was very clear that the rota would cease at the end of May. Anyway, the phone rang at that point, and we both got distracted, but when we talk about July again tonight, I?m going to say ?before I check the diary, I had really hoped we?d be free of the rota by July, you did say the rota would end in May?? Is this reasonable?

I know the ?softly softly? approach is the best way forward here, but I just know that if I don?t fight my corner, and let it go, we?ll still be in this weird situation in another year?s time. I know DH would prefer SS to visit flexibly, but I also know he?s very unlikely to be firm with him.

Maybe DH just gets used to thinking of his life in terms of the rota, and it was just a slip of the tongue, rather than really meaning we?d need to check the access situation before booking a weekend away? Can I just add that whichever weekend we book, I?m quite happy to have SS visit before/after our trip, I?m not trying to stop him visiting, but just not on a rostered basis.

Did anyone see Coronation Street last night, where Steve MacDonald was trying to placate both his wife and his mother. He was telling both of them what they wanted to hear, to keep the peace, but in the end it wasn?t getting him anywhere? So I may suggest that me, DH and SS all sit down, and discuss how it?s going to work beyond the end of May, so that we don?t end up in a situation where DH has promised me one thing, and promised SS something quite different ???

I know DH would never set out to be duplicitous, it?s not in his nature, but ? like most men (and Steve MacDonald) - he?ll do anything for a quiet life???

Petal - do you think if DH talks to DSS about 'swapping' the rostered weekend in July, that this could be an introduction to DSS of a more flexible arrangement (I know I know still not very flexible in the terms that you or I would consider it, but probably for DSS quite a metioric occurence).

And maybe this would be a good way of DH leading into the flexibility discussion with DSS? Whereby DSS can see that the access isn't being reduced, just moving to meet everyone's needs and daily lives?

Hi Allnew - if DH were to talk to SS about swapping a weekend, it would simply be what we do whenever we go on holiday, and not anything new. I really want DH to change his mindset, and think about flexible visiting, not access weekends. Do you think it's reasonable for all three of us to sit down together and work out someting that's mutually acceptable? The cynical side of me also thinks this would prevent DH saying one thing to me, and something different to SS .....

Yes I see what you mean, it needs to be something different, so if swapping weekends isn't a completely new concept, then you're right, it will happen and then go back to normal.

So....difficult one. Have you guys ever sat down and discussed important things together as a 'threesome'? My concern is that if you haven't, then DSS will feel you're behind it, DH will in all likelihood feel awkward and you'll feel like a schoolteacher or something (I'm just picturing myself in the position!).

I keep coming back to that it really needs to come from DH - but I can see you concerns about him backing down. Really empathise with you on this one. Do you get that horrible sicky feeling when you're about to broach things things with DH?

No - we've never discussed things as a 'threesome' before; simply because there have never been any real changes - it's been like this since SS was 11 and would probably go on til he's 111 if he had his way! However he's nearly 17, and surely old enough for a sensible discussion. A feel a 3-way conversation would be best in terms of transparency. To be honest, I'm not really bothered if SS does think it's all come from me - I can live with being Bad Cop if it means we make sensible changes.

I never worry about discussing things with DH, unless it's SS-related. Then I have to pick my moment carefully, reel off lots of positives about SS, and then tactfully raise my point. DH is soooooo defensive about the whole subject, and it can easily slide into a huge row.

However, I'm confident DH does want flexibility now, but 'not rocking the boat' will remain his priority. He's said before that "we need to sell this to SS" which annoys me; surely DH is the parent, and therefore has the authority to make changes without buy-in from SS?

So what will happen when DSS learns to drive? Will he drive himself over to yours at the set time he has always arrived?!

I really think your DP is adding to this boys insecurity issues by carrying on like this. I do think you need the "threesome" conversation if you're brave enough!

Once SS can drive, I suspect he would indeed drive himself to/from our house as per the rota.

My view is that DH should be supporting him to becme a young adult, helping him become a little more independent, and finding his feet in the big wide world. And whilst DH does agree with this, it's over-ridden by his fear of upsetting or challenging SS in any way. I think we're at the stage now where DH is doing more harm than good.

PS - I'm certainly brave enough to have a 3-way conversation; it's whether DH is brave enough !!! He knows he can't make vague, fluffy promises to SS if I'm included in the conversation .......

Go for it Petal - when is the next time DSS is over?

btw I secretly envy you - when DSS1 is 17 I won't be able to do what you're trying to do, because DSS2 would still be 13 then and it would make less sense to argue for only one of them to have flexibility

Allnew - SS is actually with us this coming weekend, Thurs-Sun. However DH specifically requested we 'leave it for a while' as regards to talking to SS any more about the arrangements, as DH doesn't want to upset him while he's taking his GCSEs. Heaven knows why this is likely to cause him to fail his exams, but this is what I have to contend with.

After we had our impromptu conversation about it last week (which is the conversation which prompted this thread) DH wanted to let it lie for a while, he said we'd 'planted the seed' and he wants to 'let SS come round to the idea.' So in theory, all is not lost, but I wouldn't like to judge how it would pan out if SS puts up much resistance.

So I'll need to get DH's go-ahead before we can have a 3-way conversation, I may leave it til after Easter. If I bang on about it too much, I'll spoil my chances of success.

I agree that if we also had a younger step child, as you do, then there would be no chance of trying to get SS16 to go onto a flexible arrangement. What I really wished, is that SS had enough going on in his life for the pattern to break 'naturally' but that's never going to happen.

Sorry but I can see the rota being used untill on a positive note that DSS gets married . (no we cant possibly get married that weekend its my access weekend with dad )Or on a negetive note you and DH in an old peoples home . Seriously not being rude in any way shape or form but is DSS special needs at all . As it seems that he is being treated as if he will break and have a melt down if things dont stay the same time .

Seriouslycan'tbebothered - that's my point entirely! If I weren't making plans to change things, I could see the rota being in place for many years to come.

SS doesn't have special needs, however DH is committed to being a Disney Dad, and is convinced his precious baby (6ft tall, nearly 17) will disintegrate if faced with any aspect of Real Life.

I don't know what on earth I'll do if I get over-ruled on this. He wants to go to uni, but that's two years away, and the thought of another two years of babysitting an adolescent on a strictly rostered basis, is not pleasant.

Bring back national service!

jees that is seriously scary . So he isnt special needs . Dont know what to say now um what can anyone say . He is 17 for crying out loud . You poor poor woman . It must be so frustrating . I would be so angry inside . Does he have any mates . Can he volunteer anywhere . God knows where but come on this is mumsnet surely we can think of something . I just cant get over him being 17 . Are you sure about special needs . I mean 17 yr olds have girlfriends . Go to the cinema with their mates . Ride a bike round a skate park or something . 17 ,

even if he went to uni he would last a week . Well less than that really as he would need to be picked up at 4 oclock on Fridays .

well DSS volunteers on Saturdays - but guess what, not on access weekends

SCBB: the problems is, SS isn't remotely interested in doing ANYTHING beyond school, he doesn't mix with other lads outside of school, and we can't force him to play sport etc, get a Saturday job etc etc. Bring DH's Disney tendencies (ie always taking the line of least resistence) into the equation, he'd rather stick pins in his eyes than shoe-horn SS out of the house, then you can see how we've ended up like this.

But DH is actually doing him a dis-service, because unless we have a minor miracle, there's no way he'll cope at Uni.

Allnew - given your situation is so similar to mine, I'm not surprised your SS doesn't do his volunteering on access weekends. It's like access weekends are sacred, normal life is suspended, and the child/children/young adults are ferried to their fathers, and spend 2/3/4 days in a bubble. I don't think anyone benefits from that. Well, apart from my SS, who is grateful a break from his mother, who makes him do chores, clean his teeth, flush the toilet, do homework.

DH has tried so hard to be the popular parent, and this is how it's ended up.

He wont cope my bet is he will go to a uni all be it for a short period of time but it will be the nearest uni to where you live . You are so right that your DH is doing him a disservice .

I think the phrase is gently gently catchy monkey . But in your case be very clever in how you do this , it may take longer but hopefully your DSS may turn into a fully fledged adult .

SCBB: you're right, I've got to tread VERY carefully about this. I also find reverse psychology quite effective; there have been times when I've asked DH if he wants SS to join us on an outing etc that doesn't fall on 'access time', and DH will, without fail, say "no, let's not bother, let's go on our own."

I'm already on 'Make a Huge Effort to be Mega Nice to SS Campaign' - the more pro-SS I am, the more likely DH is to be a little tougher.

Weird!