Worried about DSD

[Lillyofthevalley]

This is the first time I have started a thread on here so am prepared to be flamed as not sure if I am being antiquated or not.

I am very concerned about one of my DSD (11), have been for some while as she looks and dresses far older then her years, which to me is attracting the wrong attention. Makeup, high heeled boots, tight fitting clothes etc - but as I said not sure if I am being antiquated and need to move with the times. Constantly has a sultry / moody look about her.

The reason for my post is that she has been getting into fights at school and is now on her last warning before exclusion. She does not live with us and DH has told her to fight back which I disagree with and have said that she needs to follow school policy otherwise she will get excluded.

Its her attitude to it all that worries me though. She bragged that another girl left her school because of her and that when she and other DSD saw the girl out of school they ganged up on her and either one of DSD or one of their friends pulled the girl off her bike.

I am absolutely appalled by their actions and their attitude to it, seaming proud of what they had done. Especially as this had occured last summer as it had concincided with when they were grounded by BM for going to a different park. So why has this attitude not been addressed? I can't beleive BM is not aware of it although DSD's spend very few weekends at home as when they are not at ours they are sent elswhere, its always been this way since they were little.

I am really disturbed by it all, the way she is allowed to dress, her attitude, etc and can see her going off the rails. DH won't speak to ex about it as she just shrugs and says 'so, they live with me' She does not include him in parent evenings or any decisions concerning them which I find odd.

Have not spoken to DH about how I am feeling as I will be accused of picking on them. I don't pick on them I hasten to add, DH and I only have cross words when it comes to how they are being brought up by BM so it is a bit of a bone of contention. DH was there when I spoke to them about the bullying, I explained that it was not very christian, how would they feel in that girls position, what goes around, comes around etc DH did not say a word. DSD's did not speak to me until the next day.

DH and I have a DC together who is at an impressionable age.

Am I right to be worried and if so how do I handle this?

Never normally see the BM, the few times I have seen her she has given the impression of being a knowall and thinking she is the best Mum in the world - not sure if she really thinks this, just the impression I got, could have been nerves meeting her ex's wife.

I do commend you for being so concerned but unfortunately, without either of her parents backing you up, you are not oging to get far.

Does she read? You could get her some books covering the subject of bullying - Judy Blume are good, although dated, and I'm sure there are other up-to-date books, and leave them in her room for her to read.

How is your relationship normally? Do you think she realises she is being a horrible little bully?

Showing concern about an 11 year old going off the rails - and the potential trouble she could get into with that kind of attitude - isn't picking on her, stupid man, it's showing that you care and that you're being responsible.

Does your DH not care about any of this ? Surely he can't think it's right ? I do understand his reluctance to speak to a hostile defensive ex but that shouldn't mean he stops looking out for his daughter and trying to help her in every other way possible. For example, he should be fully involved with the school in tackling this. It does however sound as if he's largely buried his head in the sand .... not contributing anything to the other day's conversation is either pathetic and cowardly, or totally irresponsible. If neither parent appears to be bothered, then you are probably on a fast road to nowhere trying to impart any sort of positive message across. Come to think of it .... if her parents are indifferent, there could be a large element of attention seeking going on here.

Trouble is, you will end up screaming with frustration trying to tackle this on your own. I'd say leave them to it but it's not quite so simple if you have another child witnessing her behaviour and attitude - and the absence of any discipline or disapproval. I'd certainly go on expressing your disapproval if only to set a good example to your younger child but of course sooner or later questions are bound to be asked about why SD is allowed to get away with things they're not.

I would try and sit down with DH and perhaps approach this from the perspective of what does he want for his daughter in life. Say you're worried that if she continues as she is, maybe gets excluded etc., that her whole future might be adversely affected. Ask him what he thinks can be done to prevent this and if he just shrugs, suggest meeting with the school, rewarding positive behaviour and so on. (Sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs !). If all else fails though, I'm not sure what you can do on your own .... apart from making it clear to your child that any bad behaviour she sees go untackled is NOT acceptable ... but even then, I do apprteciate that approach is fraught with difficulties as you could end up in an us and them situation.

Makes me so angry when I read about dads like this refusing to tackle bad behaviour. Why do you suppose this is ? .... is he a really laid back kind of person usually, or is this another case of "precious princess" syndrome and/or fear that if he criticises or condemns SD will refuse to see him ?

Of course in the long run SD herself is being done no favours at all ............

Unfortunately she is not a reader, does not have a hobby unfortunately - her only interest seams to be makeup, although she does play netball at school.

Our relationship is fairly good, she does open up to me and tell me things like when she had a boyfriend but did not want her Dad to know. But also aware that she lies, which is another very worrying thing as I know when she's lieing but if I accuse her of lieing I get the disney Dad syndrome from DH.

I think I got my point accross about the bullying its more the fact that the attitude had not been addressed before which leads me on to other concerns like is she being spoken to about other stuff like contraception etc?

The way she is allowed to dress at home, not here I hasten to add, can't do much about the clothes or haircut but we don't allow the makeup or the high heels. I don't think bra straps on show on an 11yr old is appropriate - call me old fashioned. This is my concern, she has already started her periods, was on the phone in tears to me when it started which was heart breaking as she was with her BM and I was therefore helpless.

I do have the sort of relationship with her where I could talk to her about contraception, but I don't want to be stepping on the BM toes / saying more then my DSD knows - and her going back to BM and saying Lilly said this etc

Really don't feel its the roll of the SM, but I am not convinced its being done at home (I could write pages on evidence of imo bad parenting) But I can see a teenage pregnancy looming just from the way she conducts herself.

I know all situations would be different, but have other SM's had to cover these issues with their DSD? Would rather be safe then sorry.

Unfortunately if her mother isn't doing her job (which sounds lthe case if she was on the phone in tears to YOU when she started her period, despite her own mother being available) then you're probably going to have to step in if you care about her outcomes at all.

I'd suggest a rewards system, to be honest. But your husband MUST get involved with the school (and you must covertly involve yourself with him) and then, for every week she stays out of trouble, you will take her into town (on your husband's purse) and help her choose something to the value of about £5. But she MUST display a good attitude to the people around her. You can wrap this up with "Oh, it's time for LittleDaughter to learn to behave, and we don't want her to think it's unfair that she has to behave, and we don't want you to think it's unfair that she gets rewarded, so we are doing the same for you as for her. Then she will think she's a big girl like you."

The 'thing' will help, but if she values you as much as her behavior says she does, the time you spend with her will be the clincher.

Don't say anything about her clothes now ... she already has them, and she can do very little about changing them. But next time she is due for some clothes, go with her and point her towards a preppy, fashionable look that doesn't make her look like a cild prostitute.

Catsmother, thats what I don't understand, DH is not laid back at all. He is quite strict with DC and DSD's but did not say anything re the bullying.

I think it is a bit of the princess syndrome and a bit of being scared that they won't want to come over any more. But when they are here he does nothing with them! Drives me mad! But as you say this attitude of his is not going to help her.

I did ask her what her Mum said about the fighting and apparently she was cross that the headteacher rang her at home but understood as it was a boy who laid his hands on her. DH has always said to kick boy between legs if lays hands on her, whereas school is saying no fighting. Its no wonder DSD is confused.

The bullying in my mind is inexcusable. I do understand she may have been gee'd on by peer pressure, its the attitude I abhore. I will broach it will DH to see how he feels about it. Thinking about it he may have kept quite the other day as I was dealing with it, not sure if he was right to though. Think he should have taken them both to one side away from DC when we got home and had a proper chat with them though. But as I said I think he worries they may not want to come any more or they will go home and tell BM (they have gone home and told BM lies before which caused her to phone up yelling the odds)

Coldtits (great name! lol)

Will speak to DH about phoning the school, we are only getting the story from DSD and DH should definately be getting more involved but as I said before he has never even been told by BM about parents evenings etc - we are lucky if we get to see school reports.

Not sure if the reward thing will work, she is overindulged by grandparents anyway and does not have much value to stuff, will have a think about it.

Its very hard not to say anything about the clothes, obviously I don't as that is personal critism and will dent her ego. Its the fact that she is being bought these clothes, she honestly looks 15 / 16. She's allowed to choose her own, both DSD's are allowed to choose and the other one does not dress so inapropriately, although BM did buy them both an off the shoulder tee-shirt thing without them being there, most inappropriate.
I think gently, gently is the way to go - very hard when they don't live with us though.

Am I right to speak to them both about contraception etc?

We have similar problems with dbd. She's 12 and just started secondary school in September, as has changed beyond all recognition!

She's always looked older than she is: she's very tall for age, big boobs and started her periods at 9. She's always in full makeup, although dh really hates it and does send her back up to take some of it off. Generally she wears more makeup during the day than I would on a big night out.

Clothes.... well she's not into heels and short skirts thank goodness. But nothing is very flattering, and it's all very low cut. She def tones it down around dh though.

Judging by her facebook page (which she's too young to be on!), she also comes across as a bit of a slapper in the making. Dh, mil, sil and I have all spoken to her about this in the last few weeks. It's toned down a bit, but if she was my dd she'd be in big trouble!!

Thank you for all the replies. Sorry for not getting back to you all sooner but being able to update you all has been difficult with DH and DSD's here this weekend!

Well I did calmly broach the attitude to the bullying with DH before he went to pick them up on Friday. As predicted I was accused of picking on them aghhhh stupid, stupid man.

All he kept saying (before he accused me) is that they have to stick up for themselves, which I agree with, there is however a fine line between sticking up for themselves and bullying another child. He has them both on a pedastal which is not healthy, obviously I adhore my DC but I see the faults as well! He can not see that they lie, like when they said that they apparently did not know how to put games onto an IPOD, which they have both had for over a year - come on, like I was born yesterday! (this was when DC asked youngest DSD to put more games on his Ipod, which she started to do before we interjected and said only Mummy and Daddy were to put games on - we have already had an invoice for games for 11.99 which coincided with an access weekend)

He can not see that they lie, even when I brought up them deneying destroying the tassels on the cushions in the lounge. Blamed our DC even though it only ever happened on access weekends even though our DC sits in their on his own at other times. Its not the destroying (although that is annoying) its the lieing and DH denylal thats most frustrating. All kids will lie to get out of trouble, its up to us parents to show them that lieing is not the way.

I spoke to him about the fighting and how I thought he should be speaking to the school about it to which he replied 'why, when I agree with it' - [head bang against wall]

Anyway he stormed off to go and pick them up and spoke to them both about the bullying. So when they got back the whole saga was explained to me, without the bragging. It turns out the other girl gave as good as she got and the pulling off the bike thing was one of their friends who was provoked by the girl. I did reiterate the effects of bullying and their attitude the previous week did not portray them very well and how much it had disturbed me.

DH then got youngest DSD to go and get her shoes (she had been to school disco) she was wearing six inch stiletto heels! - which her Mum had lent her!!! - she's not long turned 11 FFS!! DH showed his disgust and I explained that by dressing like a 15/16 yr old she will be attracting the wrong attention from boys, attention she is not old enough to handle and she could end up getting her self hurt very badley. I asked if BM had spoken to them about contraception etc DSD(11) could not even pronounce the word, but said that they knew about it from school. We then all had a hug and left it there. Must admit I was abit tearful, but its hard not to be when you care.

My conclusion now is not to get so worked up about it all. Obviously whatever I say to DH I will be accused of picking on them so I am onto a looser there. BM is obviously encouraging the dress so apart from making DSD aware of the dangers there is sod all I can do there - at the end of the day she is not my daughter, I just hope she turns a corner like MJ's DSD has.