Do you think this is acceptable parenting by my EXH?

[zazas]

My EXH had our DS who is 9 at the weekend. My EX did ask when I was dropping off "what age was it OK to leave the kids on their own?" I replied "not at 9 years!".

So instead of leaving DS on Saturday morning he got him up at 5.30am to take him to his swim training session at the local pool. My DS sat on the side of the pool for nearly 90mins playing on his father's ipad before he joined him in the water for the last 30mins at 7.30.

DS has played down it - saying that he likes playing on the ipad (of course!) but eventually added that he didn't think it was very good parenting and was tired all day Saturday!

I personally am not happy for this to happen - it is far to early for him to get up. My EX won't pick him up until 7.30pm on the Friday (also due to his swimming) and it is 45mins back to his house so he not exactly getting to bed early either.

What can I say - my EX point blank refuses to listen to me or anyone else when it comes to doing his own thing!

A bit of background - until recently my EX was married with 2 small DDs but is now separated and so in the past left DS with his stepmother when he swam in the early morning.

Is he a professional swimmer?

I wouldn't be happy with that YANBU

I wouldn't be happy either. I would expect him to re-arrange his swimming to fit round your DS not your DS to fit round the swimming.

I think it's perfectly acceptable.

5.30 isn't that early. It's not every day. Playing on the iPad followed by a swim with his dad sounds fun.

I think you should probably not bang on about it until your poor son eventually says that it "isn't very good parenting" - that sounds to me like you have been trying to get ds to take your side against his dad. Sorry if I have misinterpreted.

Well it's not exactly abusive and it's not exactly what YOU would do, Which itself isn't a Crime!! it's really his time with ds and HIS choice.

I don't think it's too early, no different than putting a child to bed an hour late.

And I don't think you should say anything, what would be the point? He's with him, he gets to decide - how would you like it if he commented that one evening you had allowed ds to stay up to watch the X-factor or something?

Do nothing, say nothing, seethe privately

I'm honestly sympathetic but there is nothing you can do so don't get aerated - at least he asked you about leaving him on his own and didn't.

can he not get him on saturday after swimming?

Did you really say 'he didn't think it was very good parenting ' because it sounds like you are putting words into his mouth.

It doesn't sounds like your ds was harmed by it, he got to play on the ipad and go swimming as well.

I would put it into the context of your ex's parenting as a whole.

5.30 isn't that early - it is in my book, it's the middle of the night .

Thanks for the replies! Not said anything to him as I have to say I am also of the 'when DS is with his Dad I have to respect what they choose to do' type!

Of course it is not something that I would do so I guess that is one reason I probably find it not that acceptable.

DS did say that - honestly! Ex never mentioned it until DS talked about it on way home, eventually saying he was OK with it but he didn't really think it was good parenting!!!

No he is not a professional swimmer! Just thinks he is.

Actually there is always more to the story isn't there...he basically puts swimming before the kids (is an obsessive type). For the last 4 months of 2010 he only had the kids for 2 of the weekends due to his swimming trips all over the world - yep really into he is!

I guess I just assumed that he would miss his Sat AM swim since he had DS and it was confirmed that wasn't ever going to happen!

Our DD who is 12 refused to go this weekend to see him (she did have an event on) has often complained about how his swimming is a priority over them...

Ahhhhhhh :)

5.30 isn't that early - it wont kill him. The world doesn't actually have to revolve around the kids 24/7.

Your Ex abided by your wishes not to leave him home alone - what more do you want? Him to give up his sport? He had a swim training session - you knew that, you know he no longer has the SM to look after DS, did it occur to you to ask what he was going to do or if it would suit him better to pick DS up after his training on Saturday?

I would leave DS in bed, he's 9. Let him get up and watch a bit of TV, have some cereal for breakfast and Dad will be home anytime - why is it such a big deal? He'll be asleep for most of it.

Give up his sport / hobby? Absolutely no way!!! So I guess I will have to let him do it how he wants! I know once in awhile won't harm my DS - especially in summer. I also know that my DD won't get up when she is there but I am OK with her staying at home with her brother.

He would be home at 8.30am so I guess the kids can as suggested get up, eat breakfast and watch TV until he returns...

As you are probably gathering not much choice when it comes to choosing between kids and swim training!

Yes I think it is acceptable. His time with his son is his own to conduct as he sees fit - as his father.

Unless there are real issues of abuse or neglect, you don't get a say.

Could you do the drop off on the Friday so that it's not so late when DS gets to bed? Personally I don't think that 5.30am is too early for the child to get up if that's what he gets used to. But it all really depeds on why your ex is doing swimming this early on a saturday? It strikes me that if he has all week free, while you look after the child, that he should get this hobby done during that time. SO I need more background really to judge.

I think though really in the grand scheme of things this isnt that bad... the man is jointly responsible for yur DSs care and if he thinks this is acceptable (and of course feeding him,clothing him,not getting him ran over etc then he should be left to parent in his own way.

Did your son come up with the negative comment all of his own accord?

Sorry, I see youve already answered some of my questions

Now I know he has a 12 year old surely all of the other weeks he can just stay ta home with his sister until dad gets back?

FWIW I don't think your DD should have been allowed to not see her dad this weekened...

I am sorry but I dont think it is unreasonable. 7.30 on a friday is not the end of the world as its the weekend. Sometimes mine are picked up as late as this. Normally mine (6 and 8) are up till 9 on the weekend when not at their dads anyway.

Also, I dont think its unreasonable to leave a 9 year old if they are capable. There is no laws regarding the age of the child its the competence of the child and how long they are left for ( you would not leave a 5 year old all day by itself for example!!)

My daughter (8) walks home by herself (only 10 mins) as she is totally capable. However my 6 year old (boy) god bless him, will never be able to walk home even at 8 as he is a totally different child and I would not feel he was totally able.

Also there is no problem in getting a child up at 5.30am on a saturday. As many have said, he is not toally ignoring him he is swimming with him for the last 30 mins my children are up at six sometimes anyway.

Jees all I can say is give the guy a break. If swimming is his thing then great. He could be a drunk useless father. At least he SEES his children and spends time with them.

He even consulted you regarding leaving your son by himself for crying out loud. My ex does ridiculous things that actually are common sense. eg. feeding them sweets and sending them home with no breakfast and lunch. Not running them a bath all weekend. etc...

I am sorry but I agree with LT the daughter should not have been able to disregard her father like that. IMO I think you have the problem with him swimming and are pushing this onto the children rather than embracing it. Who knows they may end up going in their fathers footsteps and having a fantastic swimming career.

Sorry if I appear blunt, of course this is just my opinion (smile)

I think it's probably less about what he's actually done and more about how he seems to put his hobby ahead of spending time with his children. I have no problem if there's a balance, and taking him along to a training session is absolutely fine but to only see his children for 2 weekends in 4 months is pretty poor and must be hard on them.

Is it just a hobby or is he a high level sportsman?

I don't think it's unacceptable parenting and I don't think you have a lot to complain about in this instance.

Your ex at least asked you what you thought was a reasonable age to leave him alone for a couple of hours, you said not yet and he abided by that.

I am in a nrp / step situation now but when I was growing up, I didn't see Dad during the week and at the weekend he had a sport which meant that he dragged all four of us kids plus mum out in the morning when it was dark to get to the meet in the light and watch the event - otherwise we just wouldn't see him.

Your ex has done no worse than this, and maybe Dad was selfish for pursuing his sport / hobby, but I love him no less for it now.

FWIW I must add, your DS said he was ok with it then 'eventually' said he thought it was bad parenting - i don't think this is something a 9 year old would come up with naturally, - I think he's saying what he thinks you want to hear, - which is not altogether healthy is it?

What does a 9 yr old know about 'unacceptable parenting'???

Sounds like your xdh hobby is an issue for you as you say you dont think he should leave him at home when he swims but you also dont think he should go with him?

So basically you just want him to not swim at all?

My ds sometimes has to get up very early so that I can take his big sister to sporting things. Can't see the issue.

And he's 9 - if he said that something was "not good parenting" I would know categorically that he was parotting something someone had said to him.

I'm assuming that he has "every other weekend" contact only? I'm go to go against the flow here and say that I think he is being selfish and this is not good parenting, I wouldn't go as far to say it is "unacceptable" though.

If he has 12 days out of 14 without his children, then why can he not fit his hobby in on those days?

As a parent (and a single one for many yrs), I've never had the opportunity (or finances) to do any sort of hobby. Having a child came first, as far as I was concerned, if I had the oppportunity to have done something 12 days out of 14, then I would have certainly fitted it in on those days.

I think it is OK for your daughter to be left with your son, but personally I wouldn't have left a 9 yr old boy home alone. If DS gets an early night on the Saturday night, the 5.30am start isn't the end of the world, but it's not ideal. In your position, I might consider making arrangements for DS to go on Saturday morning after ex's swim.

My OH only leaves his children with me / alone if he has to work or if he his doing something with one of the other children, he regularly refuses nights out if he has the children on those nights and he has them a lot more than "every other weekend". As far as we are both concerned, he tries to see his kids as much as he can, so why would he then leave them to do something else?

Just out of interest, what is happening to his small DD's when their Dad is swimming assuming he still sees them too?

I think your ex is pretty selfish, but there isnt much you can do.

I am a LP and I get up every morning at 6am to do the horses and leave everyone asleep in bed. My boys are 10 and 11 and know mum is up the hill on her mb if they need her. They are always still fast asleep when I get back. There are also 2 of them and also 3 big dogs in the house so no one will coem in unannounced! I am only 3 mins away though and I wouldnt leave one of them alone and go swimming.

The sad part is that they grow up knowing he doesnt put them first.like your daughter has already said

It is interesting seeing the different points of view. I think you know now I am agreeing with those who think it is OK in the overall context of parenting - and yes he can of course parent (within reason) as he wants when he has the children.

Others have picked up on the fact that maybe there is an 'issue' with his swimming. Although I would like to point out to ablip that you don't have to be a drunk to be a useless parent - there are many other ways...

Background - it is his 'sport' - he is in his 40's and likes to do long distance swimming. He has an addictive personality by nature and he is very much all or nothing. He has two failed marriages over 7 years and 4 children under 13. The reason for both of us (his EXs) is that he was unable to ever put anyone else first before himself. I could give examples but just believe me it was extreme behaviour.

As I mentioned in an earlier post - last year over 4 months he had the children for two of those weekends. A few he was working (but he prefers to then just miss that weekend rather than make it up) the rest were because he choose to do swimming events both in the UK and away. One of these was a 10 day holiday in Egypt swimming in the Red Sea - so total lifestyle choices.

I have absolutely no problem with him not having the children, every extra weekend is a bonus with me and so there is no issue with that. The problem I have is the message that it sends to the kids that they are not his priority (as they never were obviously). There has been many times I have had to wipe away my son's tears when I have had to tell him that - no he won't be seeing his Father this weekend again.

Obviously I try and help them deal with this - explaining that he loves them very much but he has this 'need' to achieve things, which he feels will make them proud of him. Their reply is always we are proud of him we just want to spend time with him.

I know some of you have said that I should have insisted my DD to see her Dad and he was upset by this. However she had an event on the Saturday that was postponed from Xmas which she really wanted to attend. It was her reasoning that since he picks and chooses when he will see them, then why can't she exercise that choice to.

I am interested in other's point of view here. I certainly don't discourage her from seeing him but I can see her point of view too...

Gosh that was rather long. I am committed to making the relationship work between the children and their Father - we have a good relationship ourselves, so there are no problems there.

As for those who question my 9 year old DS saying what he did - you will have to take my word. He has incredible emotional intelligence and he knows there is no pressure to take sides between his Father and I. That is made very clear.

I guess it is just me getting the balance right of what I can expect from him and what is right for the children?