DSD (16) coming to live with us?

[notremotelyintofootie]

Ok, this post is a bit of a mix if a moan and asking for sone info and advice....

Dh and I have been together almost 5 years, married for 3 and between us we have dd who is 14 months old now. Dh works shifts, in a very important but low paid care role, I am on a full time funded phd with about 12-16 months left. I have ds who is 11 and there is dsd who is almost 16 and lives with her mum, stepdad and brother who is about 5 or 6...

Dh used to see dsd alot when he lived closer (we are -about 60 miles away) and when I got with dh I would drive up and collect her and take her back every couple of weekends, when she became a teen the frequency dropped as she wanted to do stuff with her mates etc and that was fine, I also encouraged her to use the train to visit and she enjoys that, over the past year or so we are lucky to see her every couple of months and usually when we can get up there, due to erratic shift patterns, but dh calls her 2-3 times a week, texts and u use facebook and twitter to chat with her, the effort is all one sided though... There has been some issues between dsd and her mum, dsd will sleep all day and is quite lazy although she is a sweet polite girl! She gas stolen alcohol and been drinking gin during the day but that is sorted... When dsd and ds are together dsd openly ignores ds and didn't bother with Xmas presents for him or dd despite being reminded, ds went and spent his pocket money on her Xmas present (we gave ds and dd presents in the end and docked her pocket money...)

Anyway, we live in a lively uni town and dsd has decided she wants to live with us after her gcse's, dh is delighted but I have reservations... Firstly I don't think dsd gas considered that she will miss her friends, she us shy and making new friends will be hard, she will have to do a lot more chores here as we work full time, she'll need a part tind job as we have no spare cash at all and she will have to interact with ds!

We are currently in a 3 bed house, was in a 2 bed until 8 months ago and if dsd comes to live here then dd will have to come in with me and dh until dsd leaves home, we cannot afford a 4 bed place, the rent on a 3 bed is £1000, on a 4 bed you are looking at £1600 a month as it's prime student rental size! we also only have s small living room so would really be on top of each other!

I have tried talking through these issues with dh but he just says I am being negative, it also doesn't help that since saying about moving dsd had made no effort to visit more and look around, check out colleges etc!

Anyway, advice wise.... Can anyone help tell me how much extra per month it is likely ro cost me in terms if food/water/power/phone etc to have a 16 year old living here? I can then look at it realistically Nd try and fjnc ways of making it work! I really dong need extra stress at the moment and dh dies stick his head in the sand about this stuff and perhaps if he realises he'll either have to get another job or give up his beer money to keep us afloat he might look at things properly!

Sorry it's so long!

Suda - I remember reading about your row in the restaurant. I wouldn't like to predict my husband's stance, if I said I couldn't stay living here if we don't change the arrangements. I would never try and interfere in his relationship with his son, I'm only seeking some mutually agreeable, age-appropriate arrangements. But husband is so terrified of losing his son, that his actions are totally motivated by fear. When we got together, he always said he wasn't one of these parents who would allow his children to prevent him forming a new relationship - however his actions say something quite different.

Yes Petal I think that is also my DHs problem despite SSs age I think he so wants him to eventually leave home on his own terms and on good terms as he probably thinks otherwise he will hardly have a relationship with him once he goes (which IMO will happen however much he bends over backwards for him because he is so selfish - unless he wants something of course)

Sorry didnt make much sense that - I guess am just trying to say he's afraid of losing his son once he leaves home so is just trying to build up as many brownie points and be as useful to him as possible to make sure he doesnt lose contact with him.

Oh - I know what I mean - thats the main thing

I also think he knows deep down how selfish his son is and that is why he is trying to keep him under his roof for as long as possible. Its like he senses once he walks out that door for the last time he wont look back - I mean he wont even go for a drink with his dad when he lives with him despite DHs best efforts to engage with him in that chummy way. Also trying to make himself indispensable to him almost so he wont ever want to break the ties.

Not a SP, but grew up as step-child, so some kind of qualification.

Sounds like there are 2 issues here, actually. They intertwine, but each needs approaching in a different way

Issue 1 - your relationship with your DH. are you really together for right reasons. Can you both accept each other as sp's, as well as co-parents to your dd? Do you love each other enough to try? The lack of sex clearly needs addressing. Would you both consider counselling?

Issue 2 - DSD coming to live with you. Since your son lives with you, why shouldn't his daughter? I completely understand his emotional response to wanting a closer bond with her, especially as her behaviour is sometimes bad lately, this shows that she needs him. (Neither is her behaviour so bad that it eliminates the possibility of her living with you, from what you've written.) But, I also completely understand your practical concerns. This needs to be addressed practically, with DH and you together leading the search for more suitable accomodation, and DH and dsd leading the search for college etc.

If my father and SM had addressed the problems in their relationship, and had a more practical approach to the needs of a teenager and the whole family, then they wouldn't have packed us kids off to boarding school when our mother got ill and couldn't look after us ft for a while. It was hell, and knowing that sm's DC were welcome to live with them while we weren't only made it worse.

You need to make her feel welcome....it's a huge step leaving her home (as is) and friends and starting over at college with a new peer group etc. She will need your support. BUT.....as for the room. She knows the house you have now. I agree that her younger sister (who's home IT ALREADY IS) should have no bedroom at all, because the DSS will not share. Is this the opinion of your partner or have you asked HER?

You do not live in a four or five bed property. You are accommodating her wish to move in to your home. She will have to fit in. And that's it.

Sorry, that should read I DO NOT agree that her little sister, who is just getting into a sleep routine, should be bedroom-less!!

Dh has told her she doesnt have to share so she's sticking to that... She doesn't interact much with my ds or dd either....

He's being pretty stubborn over this... :(

In that case, he (you all) need a bigger house or an extension.

How old are all these children? 16 and....?

Dsd is 16 in march, ds will be 12 in July and dd is 14 months

There is no way we can afford a bigger house, we only just moved from a 2 bed to a 3 bed last April and in this city 3 beds are £1000+ a month rent and 4 beds are £1600+, plus we would need to save a new deposit etc as don't get this one back until after you move and yet need to pay new deposit plus advance rent before you move! We were lucky that my landlord likes us and let us have this house £200 a month cheaper than he could get and just transfered my deposit across!

Then compromise is the word I guess!

It's not right for a near 12 yr old boy to share with a baby/toddler.

Your husband works shifts and so that requires your bedroom to be for the two of you.

The ONLY option I can see is.....your little one and 16yr old share. This in itself is not ideal but is your dh saying that your tiny one does not need a bedroom in favour of his other daughter? It's ridiculous.

You live where you are now and are happy there and have a good deal ON THE BASIS OF A HOUSEHOLD OF FOUR. Now, you are to be FIVE. You eldest will have to compromise.

Life's hard.

I meant "near teenage boy" with all the hormones kicking in etc....

I think the OP should be equally as stubborn as her partner ? he insists his daughter gets her own room, but the OP should insist she doesn?t. He can?t have it all his own way.

This another sad case of how the children from the second marriage often suffer, in order to indulge the children from the first marriage. People often tend to think the ?first? children get pushed aside when a new family comes along, but more and more we see that guilt-parenting means the ?second? children get the worst deal.

It's not good enough for him to be "stubborn". He needs to put his money where his mouth is and actually explain exactly how his proposal is going to work for any longer than a few months. Will a bed fit into your room ? Even if it did, does he think it's appropriate and/or fair on DD to share a room with her parents until God knows when ? When does he imagine SD will move out ? ... bet he doesn't have a date in mind, so this situation could endure for another 10 years potentially.

Okay ... say the girls share (BTW, this is for the adults to dictate, not for a 16 year old to refuse. If she doesn't like it, she can stay where she is) ..... how does DH propose to keep DD safe in a room shared with a teenager ? (Or doesn't he care) How does he propose that a toddler/pre-schooler gets enough sleep if the older girl is sat in there most evenings (a la typical teenager retreating to their room) surfing the net, doing her homework, gassing to friends on the phone, listening to music ? Is he going to enforce the extremely rigid rules that'll be needed to keep DD safe ? There's no way most teenagers would take kindly to having an ultra tidy room where practically everything they hold dear has to be kept packed away for at least the next 4 or 5 years, nor would they like having to tiptoe round most times. She'd also be unable to have friends round in there if DD's asleep .... just wouldn't work and wouldn't be fair.

The idea of them sharing is really crap. It might just about be workable if SD was very responsible and DH was prepared to police the situation but I really can't see that happening from what you said. To be honest, whilst I understand his older daughter wanting to live with her dad, the assumption that she can waltz in and tip everyone else's lives upside down so that hers improves (Disney dad syndrome, being allowed to stay up late etc) is mind bogglingly selfish - but then I guess many teenagers are, and especially those whose dads worship at their feet as this one seemingly does.

So ...... back to the idea of somehow making this work. As suggested before, he wants this, he will have to work out a plan. He saves up the new deposit for example - by foregoing all his unnecessary spending and/or by working overtime, or getting another P/T job. He'll have to start researching new rentals, he'll have to consider if it's feasible to move to a new area (obviously with your agreement) where rent may be a bit cheaper. He'll have to search for properties with a dining room that could be used as a bedroom. Maybe that's not possible .... well, he'll just have to swallow down the fact that sometimes you can't have everything you want. Wanting something isn't wrong, but persuing that, as I said before, to the detriment of other people and without their agreement, is utterly selfish.

Even if you did have enough bedrooms, he can't just announce SD's moving in as a fait accompli without sitting down, firstly with you - to agree house rules that everyone sticks to (obviously with age related allowances for stuff like TV and bed times) - and then, both of you, with SD, so everyone knows where they stand, what's expected of them and so on. She's been brought up in another household for many years so there are bound to be conflicts unless all that sort of thing is straightened out at the start. The fact he hasn't done this rings huge alarm bells for me as presumably he expects her to move in and do what she likes. Has he even begun to consider the extra work another person will create - and who the heck does he propose will deal with that ? Obviously, at her age, she should, in theory, be helping out a lot herself, but would he enforce that ?

Quite honestly, you're being treated as a 2nd class citizen in your own home and she hasn't even moved in yet. Let alone the 2nd class way in which DD is being treated. Is he literally thick and unable to comprehend how his suggestion will pan out in years to come. Can he not see how damaging this could be for DD - and your relationship - if, say, in 6 years time, you have a 7 year old child in your room, without her own space, who, by then, will be quite capable of seeing how her older sister is continually prioritised. He can't brush these concerns away by saying that SD will "probably" have moved out by then etc .... there's a very real chance she might not have done.

I really think you need to show him this thread .... in the hope he might just realise that if this is going to happen he needs to start planning and working hard towards it (see suggestions above). He's also got to face facts and accept that perhaps it can't be done, and that sometimes you have to live with that. If he still "insisted" this goes ahead, it'd be a deal breaker for me ..... he's turning your life upside down, your youngest is going to be affected potentially for years to come, there'll also be an impact upon your son (inevitably, because however individuals get on or not, the household dynamic will change with an extra bod) and yet he doesn't see fit to discuss it properly and explore all options objectively.

Agree with Catsmother but.....I think in the short term it's ridiculous for your toddler to be in with her snoring, shift working dad.

Agree.....he hasn't thought this through and THIS HOUSE DOESN'T ACCOMMODATE THIS! Gone are the days of 6 kids sharing a room, top and tail and a tin bath on the wall in the yard!

True Wendi .... I'd overlooked that DH works shifts. Obviously, that's something else which needs to be factored in, and which'd make DD in with her mum and dad even more difficult if he's coming and going at odd times.

DSD coming for weekends and coming to live are two entirely different things.

There need to be ground rules - about bedtimes, boyfriends, times to come home. homework, playing loud music when Dad or baby asleep.

You have to think carefully as you will have to apply these same rules to all three children as they come of age.

DH has to be made aware of the logistical and financial implications, and both you and he MUST treat all three children fairly.

DSD and her mother must be made aware of the "rules" and the financial implications. Does Mum realise she will not only lose CB and CM for DSD, but will have to pay maintenace. If DSD is youngest child this may trigger any Mesher order that allows her to stay in the Former Marital Home.

You need to think through a normal weekday and weekend day and list all the things that occur to you:

08:00 Get up - bathroom rota, will she buy her hair gel/shampoo/spray etc or will you. If you already but special baby shampoo for kids then you can't refuse to get special shampoo for her.
08:15 Breakfast - Are pyjamas OK at breakfast? Is one hand eating one hand texting and grunting at family OK? Are visiting friends/boyfriends OK at breakfast? If so is snogging in front of little ones/you/DH? Etc

None of this is insurmountable, but it all needs to be agreed between you and DH, and to a certain degree DSD at 16 she should be allowed a certain amount of autonomy.

Consider/List/Discuss/Compromise

And DON"T show your DH the thread as catsmother suggests. What man is going to like the fact that a bunch of strangers are discussing his lack of reason! (Agree with catsmother about everything else)

Catsmother ? that?s another superb post. You articulate the situation so well.

So let?s look at the options individually (this might also provide a framework for the OP to back up her concerns).

It?s a three-bedroom house, so DSD would have to share with either:

1. The OP?s son ? a non starter because of the gender mix.

1. The OP and her husband ? this would only ever work as a very temporary solution. DH needs to take his head out the sand, and consider the reality of having his baby daughter share the marital bedroom indefinitely. She won?t always been 14 months old. She?ll become a little girl who wants her own bedroom, she?ll want friends round to play. And does DH really want a third party in the bedroom on a long term basis? The OP mentioned he doesn?t have a high-sex drive, but even so ? you?d need to become permanently celibate unless you have a private bedroom. And besides, even taking sex out of the equation, I?m sure the OP would like the bedroom to be a private space, regardless of whether sex is taking place or not. It?s not unreasonable for a married couple to have a private bedroom for heaven?s sake! OK, there might be times when you?d have a third person sharing, but that?s all.

1. The baby ? having read all the posts, I agree totally that a small child and a teenager just can?t share. Not having children myself, I forget about the hazards of scissors, hair straighteners etc. But excellent points have been made about the DSD wanting to have friends over, play music, talk on the phone etc ? none of which would work if a small child is sleeping.

So it really won?t work in the existing house. In which case Catsmother is right ? if DH wants this to happen, DH needs to find a solution, ie a house with more bedrooms. To be honest, I expect DH knows darn fine that it wouldn?t really work if DSD came to live with you, and probably prefers to ignore the prohibitive practicalities, simply because this undermines his argument.

I also agree that an incoming 16 yr old should NOT be allowed to dictate how the household will run. It should be a joint decision between the OP/DH. I?m horrified just wants to impose this upon you, with no consideration for your opinion, nor the practicalities. When this was first discussed, did you have an option to veto this completely? And what would his reaction be, if you pointed out how each ?bedroom proposal? won?t work, and that it would only work in a bigger house?

Living like the Waltons only works on TV. As Wendi points out ? gone are the days of 6 kids sharing a room !! What if he had four kids who all wanted to come and live with you? Perhaps they could all sleep in your bedroom too ????????

Greeninkmama - I don't doubt that the DH won't like discovering his wife has been seeking advice on a forum ! :) but ...... if he won't agree to sit down and discuss this objectively, I don't really see what she has to lose. If he won't budge then her choice is to put up with things (and quite possibly have a breakdown in the not too distant future because I think the resentment, anger and feeling of being overruled in her own home - and the trauma of realising her husband favours his oldest child - would be significant, along with the stress of an extra person in a small home, particularly one who'd likely be allowed to get away with murder) or, to separate. Neither choice being very appealing.

On the other hand, if she showed him this .... some tiny bit of deep buried conscience might just be pricked on the basis that so many people think the situation unfair. He might just also take on board some of the advice about exploring all options to see if this is realistic for all concerned. And if he doesn't respond well after reading it ..... well, as I said, she's lost nothing.

Nope, not convinced Catsmother! If I have to resort to a all-my-friends-agree-with-me, I have definitely lost the argument with my DH. It will just cause a huge row and the OP's DH will be able to deflect any sensible points with a 'Well that is just what your mumsnet lot say.'

All your other points are spot-on though.

Notremotely, you have just got to stand your ground on this and keep hammering away at discussing the situation with your DH. There's no other option, is there?

MY sister did this when she was 14 and thought she'd get an easier ride from my dad and stepmum than from our own mum. It didn't last - she was back within a year.

You should manage 3 kids in a 3 bed house, plenty of others do it. Either the youngest two share, or the two same sex children share. I wouldn't bend over backwards to re-arrange your lifestyle for her, but you MUST accept her, make her welcome, and do the very best you can to make it work. It is what your DH has done for your son, so you owe it to him not to grip about practicalities and money.

Don't have unrealistic expectations though. 16 year olds aren't renowned for their energy and motivation around the house, but your own children will be no different when their time comes so cut her some slack.