DSD (16) coming to live with us?

[notremotelyintofootie]

Ok, this post is a bit of a mix if a moan and asking for sone info and advice....

Dh and I have been together almost 5 years, married for 3 and between us we have dd who is 14 months old now. Dh works shifts, in a very important but low paid care role, I am on a full time funded phd with about 12-16 months left. I have ds who is 11 and there is dsd who is almost 16 and lives with her mum, stepdad and brother who is about 5 or 6...

Dh used to see dsd alot when he lived closer (we are -about 60 miles away) and when I got with dh I would drive up and collect her and take her back every couple of weekends, when she became a teen the frequency dropped as she wanted to do stuff with her mates etc and that was fine, I also encouraged her to use the train to visit and she enjoys that, over the past year or so we are lucky to see her every couple of months and usually when we can get up there, due to erratic shift patterns, but dh calls her 2-3 times a week, texts and u use facebook and twitter to chat with her, the effort is all one sided though... There has been some issues between dsd and her mum, dsd will sleep all day and is quite lazy although she is a sweet polite girl! She gas stolen alcohol and been drinking gin during the day but that is sorted... When dsd and ds are together dsd openly ignores ds and didn't bother with Xmas presents for him or dd despite being reminded, ds went and spent his pocket money on her Xmas present (we gave ds and dd presents in the end and docked her pocket money...)

Anyway, we live in a lively uni town and dsd has decided she wants to live with us after her gcse's, dh is delighted but I have reservations... Firstly I don't think dsd gas considered that she will miss her friends, she us shy and making new friends will be hard, she will have to do a lot more chores here as we work full time, she'll need a part tind job as we have no spare cash at all and she will have to interact with ds!

We are currently in a 3 bed house, was in a 2 bed until 8 months ago and if dsd comes to live here then dd will have to come in with me and dh until dsd leaves home, we cannot afford a 4 bed place, the rent on a 3 bed is £1000, on a 4 bed you are looking at £1600 a month as it's prime student rental size! we also only have s small living room so would really be on top of each other!

I have tried talking through these issues with dh but he just says I am being negative, it also doesn't help that since saying about moving dsd had made no effort to visit more and look around, check out colleges etc!

Anyway, advice wise.... Can anyone help tell me how much extra per month it is likely ro cost me in terms if food/water/power/phone etc to have a 16 year old living here? I can then look at it realistically Nd try and fjnc ways of making it work! I really dong need extra stress at the moment and dh dies stick his head in the sand about this stuff and perhaps if he realises he'll either have to get another job or give up his beer money to keep us afloat he might look at things properly!

Sorry it's so long!

Well dh came home around 9, ate his dinner and then started talking about dsd again, he goes through phases where he feels really guilty about not seeing her, although it's not his fault that she can't be arsed to come down, and started saying that he has to remind 'people' that she exists! I told him that I don't forget she exists and he did the usual of 'you don't know what it's like... Blah blah' and then had a go at me for about 2 hours about how I am just putting obstacles in the way of her coming to live her etc etc, how I was cold and logical, heartless etc!
I went to bed but he decided to text me to continue arguing, saying I don't support him etc and he has basically started an argument to make himself the victim again! He's asleep in the sofa now and to be honest I reckon he can bloody well stay there!

Arguing the twat!

Perhaps write it down? I would start by understanding that his anger and frustration toward you is due to the guilt he feels about not being a bigger part of his dd's life. Tell him how you'd fell if that was your ds. But then remind him that there are three children here, not one. Whilst you understand his dsd needs to be welcomed, that welcome will be very short lived if she has to disrupt all other dcs and someone, maybe even you, will resent him or her for it. Long term it has to be right for everyone.

As adults you need your own bedroom and as the house is small dsd will have to share, just like she would if she'd lived with you for the last two years!

On a practical note, try www.entitledto.co.uk to find out what financial help you would be likely to get. I'm thinking it will be child benefit and tax credits at least, possibly council tax and housing benefit (almost definitely if you only have one, low, wage coming in and three children)

OP - I can see it's very hard to raise your valid points, and to get him to listen. Often as a SM I find that any points I raise whatsoever about my DSSs are taken as cold and logical. My preferred term is objective, but it is very difficult to get this across.

I agree with points others have made - giving DSD these privileges will lead to resentment, but from you and from the other children. It's not fair that she should have preferential treatment at all.

I guess part of the exact reason she wants to come live with dad is the 'disney' nature her visits have taken until now. It would be very difficult for your DH to break these habits if she did come to live with you, yet there is no way she could really be given preferential treatment if she moves in.

Very very difficult, and I sympathise. Maybe write it down as previous poster suggests?

BP...Doesn't child benefit stop at 16? Although won't dsd's Mum have to pay maintenance.

Margret, CB goes up to 19, if the child is in full time education, as long as it is below university level. So do tax credits and so on, although as she is over 16, she may well entitle you to more HB. You should get enough HB for four bedrooms - under 10, children of opposite genders can share, then over ten they can share with the same gender, than over 16 they get their own room, so with your spread of ages and genders you would need four rooms (or at least should get enough HB for four)(in theory)- basically there will be a maximum amount that HB will pay in your area, up to the new national max of £400 a week, then your income will determine if that is reduced.

Look on entiledto.co.uk for a full personal calculation.

I'm sorry I just don't get why you are even considering this?

Did I miss something about her being homeless or in an abusive or neglectful home?

You do not have room for her and that should be that. She wants to, understandably cause she gets to do what she likes at 'Dad's' the grass is always greener at 16.

And her Dad feels guilty I can see that, he needs to find another way to improve his relationship with her though that won't make your homelife unbearable.

I hope you sort this out.

I agree with Coldtits - stand your ground on the bedroom. But say you are OK with her coming to live with you - dont let DH think you dont want her per se as I agree that would cause problems. But just as he refuses to budge on DSD sharing a room you must equally refuse to budge on sharing your marital bedroom - in what is after all your home - with your toddler indefinitely.

Just a word of caution. Do not make the mistake I made of thinking she is bound to have gone by the time she is 18,19,20 or whatever. My SS still lives with us at 23 and absolutely no light at end of tunnel thus far ! Make this part of your argument for sticking to your guns - if DSD is still there at that age then you will be sharing a room with your 8-9 yr old daughter. Is he prepared to put a deadline on what age she leaves home or he either makes financial arrangement for her to get her own place or you all to get a bigger place.

Otherwise do not go there. You have as much right as your DH to stick to your guns on certain points. So yes she can come and live with us - of course she can - she is your daughter after all - but no I am not prepared to go into an open ended bedroom situation which would be so potentially threatening to our sleep pattern and that of our DD and not to mention be the death knell for your sex life. It would not do any household harmony with your DSD much good either and you do not want to start off with a reason to resent her from the outset.

Sorry - I know this is all more doom and gloom. But my DH is stubborn on things relating to his DS but I have found that if I equally put my foot down on the bigger issues and really wont budge then he does give up eventually and accepts a few ground rules at least now.

I am wondering if your DH does see the practical difficulties but can't bear to face them - much easier to criticise you for raising objections than actually face the reality of the situation.

It's completely valid not to want your DD back in your room. I would tell your DH that you cannot do that under any circumstances, and if he does want his DD to live with him he needs to sort out some other solution. Handy tip from ButterPieify about the HB, I think.

The main thing is to get really clear about what you think and feel, because your DH is not dealing with this sensibly. I would also not take on the job of finding out about colleges etc - it may well be that neither DH nor his daughter gets their act together to do that, and she ends up staying with her mother by default.

I do think Schroeder has a point. My starting point is always that you can't keep a parent and child apart, but that doesn't mean that nobody else's needs get a look in. There are five people to consider - and your DH is only considering two (him and his DD) at the moment.

It is completely outrageous for your DSD and DH to suggest/imagine that she should have her own room if she comes to live with you. She must share either with your DD or your DS, or else not come and live with you because you don't have enough space for her to have her own room.

A couple of things spring to mind here. Firstly, I agree with the poster who commented that if dsd joins the household, she joins it as it stands now. As you already have a son, obviously he can?t share with any female children, so it makes sense to put both the girls together. I would stand your ground on this, plenty of same-sex siblings share bedrooms, there?s nothing odd about that.

Disney tendencies are always worrying because it could make normal domestic life so difficult if one member of the household has elevated status. The other children in the house would soon pick up on this, and I can foresee real problems.

Playing devil?s advocate here, what if dsd does move in, and she?s still with you in 5/6/7 years time ? By this time, your daughter will be 6/7/8, and still expected to sleep in her parents? bedroom? Surely this isn?t appropriate? I don?t mean to sound crude, but how can you and your husband have normal marital relations? Surely having a 14 month old in the bedroom would be problematic enough, but there?s no way you can ?get friendly? if she?s still in your bedroom when she?s 7 ????? Has your husband considered this? He?s clearly far too ?Disney? to see sense over physical space issues, but if you point out that he?ll have to live like a Monk if you don?t have a private bedroom, would this help? Try to appeal to him at a different level?

Also, if dsd has to share a bedroom with a small child, it might make her stay a little less comfortable than if she had her own room ? which could make her reconsider her options ???.

Your DH is being incredibly selfish. It's one thing to want his daughter to live with him - and work out how this might be done logistically - but quite another to TELL you "this is what's happening, this is how it's going to be", without any proper consultation and/or discussion.

It's all very well suggesting your baby sleeps in your room - for now - but she's going to need a bed in a year or so's time. Will a bed fit in your room for a start ? ... and does he really think that's a suitable long term arrangement even if it did (whether or not he snores, but obviously that's another complication).

What he's proposing right now is lovely for him, lovely for his oldest daughter - but sod everyone else. The only way this might work - practically - is if the 2 girls shared, but as I'm sure you're aware, that'd hardly be ideal either given the huge age gap and different respective wants and needs. If this was going to happen, SD would need to understand that she'd be sharing a space with a toddler, and would have to be extremely safety conscious for a start (am thinking straighteners, scissors, make-up, lotions & potions etc) ... how many teenagers could really be relied upon to ensure there was nothing left lying about in the reach of a toddler ? Then you have the issue of SD being unable to use the room/listen to music/have friends round because the younger girl is sleeping ... and the inevitable conflict with DD "annoying" SD etc.

No doubt your DH would argue all that is exactly why SD should have her own room but DD in with you could only ever be a very short term solution. Potentially SD could be with you till her mid 20s so he can't bury his head in the sand and hope things will sort themselves out or similar silly nonsense. He's got to come up with a practical solution to this - and it's got to be one that SD also buys into 100% or else it's never going to work. Maybe you could rent somewhere larger - even if it was a 3 bed with a separate reception that could be used as a 4th bedroom, but he needs to look into all of that and actually do something about it. Perhaps that might mean, as you suggested that he gets more work and/or cuts down on unnecessary spending but again, this is something he needs to commit to if he wants SD with him badly enough .... it's just not fair to insist upon this in the current circumstances ... and he might just have to face up to the fact that maybe, right now, it's not possible (given this isn't an emergency situation) to accommodate her. Simply wanting something - even if it's to have your child with you - does not give you the right to steam ahead with securing what you want if that decision has a negative impact upon other people - unless you have first sought and obtained their agreement, and that includes (if the practicalities can be sorted) an agreed set of house rules and boundaries which he promises to abide by so SD doesn't receive preferential treatment.

Catsmother - that is a SUPERB post.

bp..Well I satnd corrected and happy at the thought of CB reaching our household for the next 17 years!!

OP, I just asked my DH what he thought about this situation. (NB He has a DS who he would love to come and live with us so I thought it would be useful to see what he thought.) He said straight away that the DSD just couldn't come and live with you because you haven't got the room - to him it is a simple practical issue. No question!

If your DS was a DD, then they could share - but as he isn't they can't! A 16-year-old can't realistically share with a toddler - and there's no way you can take your DD back in with you because it would destroy your relationship.

Basically, it isn't do-able unless you have a bigger house. And that is your DP's task to sort out.

Lol at Petal being so diplomatic and saying dont mean to sound crude but what about the effect on your marital relations and how will you get friendly with your child in the room etc.

Suda meanwhile waded in complete with her size 9 wellies and said it will be the death knell for your sex life.

< Suda slopes off to reflect on how she ever got so rough as old boots unladylike >

Well no matter how you phrase the question - the bottom line is that the OP's DH probably won't get his end away for at least 10 years if dsd moves in and forces the baby into her parents room! Which is why I suggested the OP point this out to her husband - cos let's face it, a lot of men keep their brains in their pants!

Am with you on that one Petal.

I often make a sarcastic remark to DH when we are having a huge row about his 'FOMO syndrome by proxy' (on behalf of his son) - that I wouldnt be surprised to wake up and find his son propped up in bed in the middle of us one morning - such is DHs great fear of poor Little Lord Fontleroy feeling left out of anything !!

Sometimes it takes a remark like that to remind DH that yes a relationship with your wife or partner should have some bits that exclude the SKs !!!!! and that is not the same as marginilising them. There has to be a DW and DH aswell as a DW DH and DCs -especially adult ones - there has to be a bit of a line.

Thanks everyone.... Unfortunately I don't think the sex issue worries him too much, I always feel I have to pester him for it and at best it's only once a month, usually once every 2 months and he wont see anyone about that either and yet moaned at me for having anti depressants from the doctor!!

He is still in a mood with me and I am so tempted to just say forget it, lets split then you can get a 2 bed place for you and dsd....

That's ridiculous - he's behaving like a spoilt selfish brat. How dare he ! He absolutely can't criticise you when he hasn't yet come up with an acceptable plan about how this is going to work full time and (potentially) long term.

I suppose if he digs his heels in and refuses to do this then sadly, you may have no other option than to split. Hardly ideal, but better than having someone else's selfishness imposed upon you and having to live with resenting that (and worrying on DD's behalf) for years and years. I just don't see how you'd cope - mentally, apart from anything else ... it'd eat you up and your household would probably feel like an us (you, DS, DD) and them (DH, SD) situation.

Seems like he wants all his own way without having to make any effort or any sacrifices to achieve that. Yet he's prepared to treat his younger daughter as 2nd best and to dismiss your concerns simply because you don't agree with him. In situations like this, where it's so blindingly obvious that what he's proposing will be very damaging to the family as a whole, I can't help but wonder (sorry) if he has an ulterior motive .... almost as if he's forcing the issue of a split, but in such a way that you're seen as the bad guy rather than him. I apologise if that suggestion upsets you but the alternative, him refusing to discuss this like an adult, seems quite extraordinary otherwise. Am so angry on your behalf .... all too often stepmums are made out to be the wicked witch when they don't immediately agree to some impractical/unreasonable/unaffordable idea 6if it involves the skids, whereas if it didn't^ (involve them) no-one would criticise you at all for objecting to an arrogant partner laying down the law. Having children - whether they live with you or not - does NOT exclude you from considering other people.

You know what - no offence but your DH sounds incredibly selfish and has the same attitude to problems or issues that my dog has to his bone - bury it as quickly and as deeply as possible. Best of British if you ever want to have a successful relationship with this man - unfortunately I think your last suggestion would the best.

Agree with you Catsmother. I also feel incredibly angry and it is so common unfortunately - maybe we should set up some sort of Action against Disney Dads - like that programme where they send a Supernanny in to households with badly behaved kids who are wrecking family life and its become unmanageable. Send in a family psychologist to say 'No No No - cant you see what you just did there ? - right stop right there and let him put his own plate in the sink !'

I do wonder sometimes, just how much a Disney Dad will destroy his life, simply to accommodate the whims of his child.

My husband used to have a great line if I contested any Disney practices "he's my son, get over it" - which thankfully he doesn't use any more, because it's sooooo unhelpful, and only serves to underline that his son's 'rights' are head and shoulder above mine.

I'd love to see the statistics, about how many second marriages crumble, on account of the new wife being unable to cope with a Disney household.

At the end of May, my SS will have finished his exams and will be legally able to leave school. Beyond this point, I'm adamant we won't be living by an access rota any more, regardless of whether SS would prefer this. I'm going to say to DH that obviously SS can still visit, he can still pop in a couple of times per week and I'm not suggesting the pair see any less of each other. However having to run our marriage to accommodate the apathy of a school leaver is not something I plan to do. It's all been run to suit DH/SS up til now, but I think school leaving age is a reasonable time to review the arrangements, and I'm just asking for a pop in/pop out arrangement. Rather than a strict schedule. I'd never issue DH with an ultimatum, but if I did, I do wonder which way it would go. Would he sacrifice our marriage in order to keep the rota going, or would the thought of losing me be enough to make him see sense?

And this is the position lots of us find ourselves in - the desperation to appease the child is so strong, that Disney Dad would rather end up single than say "no" to their child. It's a battle you just can't win.

Yes Petal - we had a huge row in a restaurant late last year - I posted about it on here somewhere - where DH came up with this nugget - 'SS might still live with us in 6 or 7 years the way he's going' - as if it was nothing at all to do with us and we were entirely at the mercy of his whim of when he wanted to or maybe never wanted to leave !!

His parting shot at the end of the huge row in which I walked out of restaurant was ' And if you drive him out -I'm going too '

When I asked him what if SS drove me out - if I walked out on our marriage and home because of his behaviour - what would you do - would you ask him to leave - would you even have a go at him for driving your wife away ?

He didnt/couldnt answer me - I rest my case

Hi Petal, I have read so many of your posts and really feel for you too! I dread to think how it would have been if dh could drive, I sm sure he would have just driven up non stop to see dsd!

I do not want to get in the way of dh and dsd's relationship but half the time she is here he is either in bed in the morning until almost lunchtime or will pop out for a 3-4 hour cheeky pint in the evening! I don't see that changing if she lived here and she is not outgoing so would just hang around the house too... Ds is happy to pop into town with his mates or go out and do things so having what is in effect a teenage female version of dh vegging out in a crowded house will drive me nuts!

Dd is down for a nap and dh has gone to bed too! He's off work this week but has made no plans or suggestions as to what to do and will no doubt winge like hell when I go into work! I will have to do most of the housework still as he is 'on holiday' arghhhh sorry ladies, I just feel today that I am just waiting to leave,....