Very unhappy

[janet102]

I would like to ask whether it seems 'reasonable' to set a limit with regard to the length of time a stepchild lives with you. I am asking because my husband has a son who will be turning 18 soon (I'll call him A) and we have a dd of our own, who is only young. He has been living with us for a while now and it has not been easy going - without going into too much detail we have been through a number of problems, and life at home has become quite difficult at times. He comes and goes as he likes, has his own transport (thanks to his father) and he will probably be working full-time soon (we HOPE - 'work' does not seem very high on his list of priorities).

In a nutshell I have been very unhappy in this situation and it has affected my marriage, as well as the quality of the time I spend with my dd. My husband acknowledges that there are quite a few problems but since he has tried many times to talk to A, he probably doesn't really know what to do next. I feel very 'down' a lot of the time (just about every day) and I know that I am preoccupied with A, and with wanting to have a sense of peace and harmony in my home again. I really feel quite trapped. My husband thinks it's reasonable for A to move out once he's 18 and I don't see why he can't, if he's able to support himself. He has older siblings that he could share accommodation with, but knowing A, he does not like to take responsibility for anything and doesn't seem keen to work, therefore I really don't know how long he intends to live under his father's roof. He is determined to have his own freedom, but at the same time he probably won't like the responsibility of fending for himself and having to earn his own money. I know I am repeating myself but I really feel quite desperate and I know that my dd senses that I am unhappy, which makes me even sadder still.

I was thrown out because my sister was behaving as your son and my father thought it unfair to throw her out and not me. My stepmother instigated the throwings out and they now live happy ever after with her own two children.

Yes it is unfair for you to have to live in a situation like this but I do think it a bit mean to think that throwing him out is your only option. I also think it a bit harsh to set a time limit on how long he can live with you, he is part of your family and at one time or another all families will go through some kind of stress but yu have to talk and work through it.

I have been judged on here before but have equally got some fantastic and life changing advice and a lot of love and friendship from people I probably walk past in the street each day. It is what happens and people are going to have different views as they have had different life experiences.

AT the end of the day to me it is simple - he may not be your son but he is your husbands and when you marry someone with kids their trials and tribulations become yours. Your SS sounds like he may not have had the easiest of lives and maybe he does need some time to kick back and relax for a while - we all do at sometime or another.

Speak to him about his behaviour and tell him how it is effecting you - tell him you think your only option is to throw him out but you realise this is drastic and is something you would rather not do. Try and involve him in making changes and that may mean that you have to make changes also - all teenagers go through a phase of treating their home like a hotel, making a mess everywhere and especially with boys eating you out of house and home. From what you have said he seems like a normal teenager.

I am sorry if I offended you but my stepmother is a complete monster and as I have been through something like this I can say to you that the feeling of being treated differently by someone who is married to one of your parents because they did not carry and nurture you is the worst feeling that I have ever had - you feel second best, like everything you try and do is not going to be good enough and it does effect you for the rest of your life.

Relax a little let him be a teenager but make him aware that there are rules that he must follow whilst living in your house.

I hope things change and you can it down as a family (because whether you like it or not he is part of your family, you knew this when you married his father) and work it out.

Oh and yes my DD does have a kind of step dad although I am not married to him as am in the process of divorcing her father but I would expect him to treat her in just the same way as any children I have that I may have with him. I told him before we got together that she was the main priority in my life and that I expected him to treat her with as much love and respect as he does me.

I agree, I don't think the responses you got here were harsh. You yourself admitted to ambivalence about your plans, so you couldn't expect everyone would just say, yes, go ahead. I think the poster (Scummy?) who wondered if your dh's son had been included in your conversations had a really good point. Maybe you and your dh had a mental time limit on his living with you, but does he? Have you ever all sat down as a family and discussed it calmly (ie not in a row). Does he realise how badly you all feel and that you want him to move out if it carries on like this? If not, I think now is the time to talk about this. I honestly think that your stepson's behaviour is very normal teenage behaviour - though he sounds pretty miserable too, to be honest - he sounds as if he's had a lot of disruption in his life. Can you muster any sympathy/empathy for him? I think making lots of phone calls (social life is INCREDIBLY important to teens) and eating all your food (they do need more calories than adults) etc may be very annoying but they don't compare to stealing cars, taking drugs etc
I think Boe's reaction was strong because your post - inadvertently or not - implied that her stepmother must have asked her to go because, like your brother in law, she was 'making everyone's life hell' and it was her fault. You didn't know anything about Boe's life when you said this but that is so opposite to the truth. Look through Boe's postings if you want to see why she reacted so strongly to your implication.
I think lots of people have been sympathetic, even if they don't agree with you that asking your stepson to leave his home is the only answer. BK suggested family counselling, which might be useful in negotiating the transition and keeping the door open. Whatever you do, you don't want to destroy the relationship between you all. He is still your dh's son and your dd's brother, even if he is a typical teenage pain in the ass right now. And as Suedonim posted, teenagers change into adults and can be very different. An old boyfriend of mine lost his brother when his parents told him (the brother) to leave at a similar age, because he had a girlfriend they disapproved of. He never saw his parents again, never forgave them, never even went to his own dad's funeral. Family rifts are terrible things IMO.

Unless you are actually in the position of being a stepparent yourself then you dont know how hard it can be.

Janet if this is something that you would do to your own children if they treated you in the same way then you shouldnt feel any guilt for treating your stepson the same.

Boe you have a very one sided view on this and I do think that you are being unfair. At the end of the day I have yet to find a step-parent that can love their stepchild the same as their own. That doesnt mean to say you cant show love and affection but it will never be to the same extent as that to which you have for your own child.

I have seen this from both sides...I have a stepmum and stepdad and I am also a stepparent myself. Its easy for people to be judgemental when they arent in the position themselves. Good luck Janet hope that you can resolve this. Take care.

Er, I am a step-parent, and the fact that you may feel differently, does not, IMO, mean you can behave differently. That's what being a grownup is all about.

Well I think it very sad that someone would marry a parent and not love their children like their own and I hope to god my DP is a better person than this.

I come from a family with stepmother from hell and my life has been terribly effected by her since she married my father when I was a small child. Yes I have a biased view because I know what it is like being on the other side - being treated diffrently and the damage it does. Psychologically (SP) I have been damaged a huge amount by the treatment I received as a child at the hands of my stepmother and it has taken me 10 years to gt over this, the feelings of inadequacy of trying so hard but you know because you are not theirs that you are never ever going to be good enough and can you imagine what it is like to crave love from someone and know that you are not going to get it to the same degree as that mothers natural child - just wanting to be parented and loved as other children in the family are.

You can attack a problem with threats and anger or with love and understanding - maybe you are chosing the wrong one.

I never said it gave you licence to behave differently if that is in response to my post.

I've just quickly read through this thread & have just one point to make. My DD, aged 17, is exactly how you describe your SS. I've found myself saying "you treat this house like a hotel" (I swore I'd never say that, but it makes perfect sense!). She swans in and out, stopping only to raid the fridge/cupboards of the vital ingredients to make any meal, or something I was saving, or to spend hours on the phone (usually while I'm trying to get to sleep or waiting to use the phone/computer).

She disappears for days on end & we don't know where she is. She isn't working at school, is making no effort to sort out her UCAS form, & refuses to look for a Saturday job. (She "can't cope" with school AND work.... aah, how sad!) She expects us to pay up for anything and everything she wants, but refuses to help around the house & manages to avoid doing so by dashing off. In short, she is a normal teenager! She is driving me mad, and I agree that it is a huge strain & causes arguments between the rest of the family.

Sadly, you will find that your DD WILL metamorphasize into one of these dreaded creatures in the future.

Boe, I did marry someone with a child, and don't love him like my own...sorry. He is a perfectly charming young man (16) now, but when we married, he was 9, had watched his parents marriage split up, was living in two houses and had had to change shools- its not surprising that he was difficult. I was also a "parent" overnight- I expect I was difficult too.

Maybe its different when you "take on" a mother and a young baby- babies are so much easier to love.

Janet - please don't take this defensively, I understand that you feel the answers to your questions have not been in supportive, but I do feel they are mainly sympathetic - anyway, I would be really interested to know what your thoughts (or any other step-parent's for that matter) were on your partner's child before you married him? Did you really feel that the child would not have to be an important part of your life?

BTW - I am a stepdaughter myself and have had the most wonderful support & upbringing from my SF & was NEVER differentiated from my half-siblings and I do feel we are much 'closer' than he is to his natural children - perhaps because they are boys?

Janet most of the advice on here is great.IMO people are telling you their opinion and I wouldnt worry about it. You can either take the advice or not. The choice is yours. The way A behaves is just like a normal teenager. In fact my dd2 who is 17 yesterday informed she was moving out as I was picking on her.(it reminded me of this thread) All I did was ask her if she could tidy her mess up. When she said she was moving out I told her to go then as I am no slave.She soon backed down.
Boe, no offence, but I agree with 3girls mum. Yes you have had a monster stepmother and now you have a dp that treats your dd as his own. And yes when we do get with our dp/dh's we take that baggage on. But what do you do when that baggage calls you names/ beats your smaller children up/ wont conform to any types of rules as they have a mum to go home to at the end of the day/report you to social services with lies(which they have admitted, their accustions were lies)TBH the list could go on and on and all for the fact that their mother and father split up.Sorry but I am not going to be a whipping boy for no-one.I have tried my best for my ss's but when you are faced with shite and disrespect everytime you see them (mostly out of the elder one) there is only so much someone can take.To be fair until you are in that position, you should try and understand the "other side"of stepparenting.
Also as people know my dh took on my 4 children, he is their dad as they love and respect him. I hope he feels the same way but love and respect IMO has to be earned, it just cannot come freely.Also I dont care what anyone says but when you and your dp have children, you will see the differences that will arise towards your own child and your dd.They may not be blatant differences but you will notice them.
Being a mother is one of the hardest jobs in the world, but IMO being a stepmother is the hardest.Most of have to deal with resentments and shite.Sorry if my post seems abrupt it is not meant but I am so tired of people telling me I should love and respect my stepchildren because they are my husbands.Yes I did love them at one point but I can only take so much crap.I wouldnt put up with that behaviour out of my OWN children.

Doormat - no I do not agree that you should be treated like you have been by your stepchildren but Janet's problems just seemed to be of the normal teenage type - nothing as drastic as yours.

I do hope to god though that my DP can see his way to grow to love my daughter as he will his own children when I eventually get my life sorted and am in the position to have another.

As you also said you would not put up with that behaviour from your own children - I think from reading Janet's thread that she would be more lenient towards her own children and this is what riled me and brought forward such a response.

We can all give our opinions and others can learn from them - they will not all be the same though as we have lived different lives.

Lindy I knew both my ss's from birth. My ex husband and I were best friends with my now dh and his ex. They split up but we remained friends with both of them.All our children were reared up together as we were all that close. Their mum kicked my now dh out for another man. He became their stepfather. Years later my ex and I split up and my now dh was my "shoulder to cry on"We got it together awhile later and yes I was still friends with his ex.She even suggested we get together in the first place as we were so alike.Anyway as we were getting together she split with their stepdad and then she wanted my now dh back. When he wouldnt go back to her(as he couldnt trust her coz she cheated on him so many many times) that is when she turned on the both of us and we have had shite ever since.The ss's were old enough to understand but she has used them as "ammo" ever since and turned them against me.

Oh - I would just like to add that I did not have any other family to turn to as my mum was dead - none of it was anything to do with my behaviour due to my parents splitting up because they did not - I was not a difficult child and feel that I forgave her for a lot of things until one of her natural children tried to hit my 3 month old daughter - this brought everything flooding back and I cannot even bear to look at her now.

There are always 2 sides and to say that what I am saying is harsh is maybe because I have had different experiences from you.

Doormat it seems that your ss's were being used as innocent pawns in all of this.

Boe yes I agree qith you, this is what is so good about mumsnet we are all individuals with our own opinions. It does not make them right or wrong as we havent lived eachothers lives.
I do hope your dp does love your dd like his own. I think my dh does but it takes time to earn that love and respect.
My children have never disrespected their dad. If they did I would hit the roof as he has done his best for them. he is such a good dad. But as I said I have 2 children by dh and yes they all get treated the same but every now and again (this is so hard to explain)I see the differences between his own children and his stepchildren.They are very subtle but it does go on.
ie family heirlooms from his family generations ago will go to his children with me as they have his surname.Not even his children by his ex are getting them (they have different surname from his)but they were going to get them as they were his bloodline before I had our 2 sons. Do you understand what I mean?

Boe, it is sometimes impossible to feel the same love for a stepchild as it is for your natural child - it's just different. I think it is particularly hard to 'love them as if they were your own' if that child doesn't live with you so you don't get the same intimacy as you do from living with each other day in and day out from a young age. However, I do think you have to treat them the same regardless of your feelings. And of course, as childhood recedes I think you probably have new feelings towards your offspring anyway and things may well even out or even turn around so you enjoy the company of your stepchild as much or more than that of your natural child. I don't know, but it seems possible.
However, I also agree with Boe that eating food and using the phone, sleeping all day, feeling confused about the future and making a mess is entirely normal for teenagers, and one day I am sure Janet102's own dd will be doing just the same. Actually, there are pretty good biological reasons for all these behaviours - they do need more food and sleep, and their body clock is turned upside down by hormones. They have a brain growth surge which makes it harder for teenager's to see anyone else's viewpoint (the typical black and white "I'm right and I'm going to change the world" teenage view) and they become passionately interested in their peers as this is needed for them to separate from their parents and become adults. I have no doubt it will be a very trying time indeed, but normal. I also think the wanting to be free, but not being ready to fend for yourself is also totally normal. I think if you can get through it without hard drugs, severe depression, teenage pregnancy, turning to crime or crashing their car, you seem to be doing pretty well, as a parent or step-parent. We shall see how we do with my stepdaughter in a few years. She's 12 in August and on her way!

Sorry Boe no I dont think they were used as innocent pawns, they knew right from wrong and still do.
Boe, I think your childhood was terrible, actually you had the same childhood as my father (he was brought up by stepmother) and he still gets flashbacks at the harsh treatment he had. That is one of the reasons why I was deternmined to be a good stepmother, as I did not want to be regarded as wicked.
Also i think Janet would treat her dd like that as she gets older but only time will tell.If Janet can honestly hand on heart say that her dd would be treated the same as A I see no problem but TBH most teenagers act like that.

I have said this so many times but I admire aloha and her relationship with her stepdaughter.
I wish I was so lucky and i think a few other mumsnetters are envious too.

Aloha I agree with what you put there. My stepson doesnt live with us but I have been in his life for 10 years now. I love and care for him but it will never be to the same extent that I do for my own. He is treated exactly the same as my girls when he is with us, something he doesnt necessarily always like when it includes having the same rules as them (apart from an allowance with regard to some thing because of his age). Despite all the trouble we have had with the ex or trouble that he has caused my feelings towards him have never changed but its hard work at times being a step-parent, more so than being a parent to your own kids at times!

I meant to say Doormat, of course I think your situation is very different. Abuse should never, ever be tolerated, no matter who it is perpetrated by. It does seem to me their situation is also difficult, but that's an explanation of sorts, not an excuse. I couldn't put up with some of the things you describe either. My dh's ex also hates us (even though she left him years before I came along) which has made it hard for my stepdaughter at times. I wish very much it was different. She has siblings a little older and a little younger than my ds from her mother's new relationship, and I will always regret that we could not have more of an extended family relationship (like you would like, probably, Doormat). I think it would be lovely for all the children. I feel sure that one day my stepdaughter will get them all together (she's very social!) which will make me happy. And despite her mother's behaviour, we never run her down in front of her, and try to talk warmly and positively about her stepfather and her siblings - even give her toys and clothes for her siblings. It's not always the most 'comfortable' relationship, but she does love me, and I do love her, and in a few years time I very much look forward to doing more stuff with her. I am always thrilled when she enjoys something I enjoy as it makes a great bond, and that's something I work on. I think it helps that she has a similar temperament to my ds (all dh's work, sadly). It's not always been bliss and sweetness and light - she has been jealous of ds in the past (mainly because he gets to live with her dad and me and she doesn't) and sulky, but going on holiday together with them sharing a room a couple of times seems to have really helped that. He adores her and who doesn't enjoy a bit of adoration? And then there's that old chestnut, that girls are easier, which is probably true

Aloha yes it is a different situation but just highlighting another experience of stepparenting.

As for that old chestnut girls are easier hmmm I dont know about that as they rob all my clothes and make-up heeheeand argumentative with their hormones.I couldnt wait for them to start their periods.

Janet the descriptions here about teenager and the hotel/cafe situation are making me smile as it is so true.Why do you think I call myself doormat?

Hello again ladies, it seems I have a lot to respond to. Where to start....

Boe I'm truly sorry about your experience. Maybe they felt justified in asking your sister to leave, but you shouldn't have been treated so badly because of your sister's behaviour. I'm sorry your stepmother was such a cow to live with and that she affected you so much. But I have to disagree about your comment that you think I would be more lenient towards my own child - what I actually said was that I LOVE my own child in a way that I can't love 'A', but I don't think leniency comes into it.

Having said that, I really do not (and have never) treated 'A' badly. My sniping and moaning is done in private (like on here), but I don't let him know that I am feeling negative towards him. Of course there have been times when I have 'had words' with him over something he has done, like the kind of behaviour that I've mentioned on here already, and I'm sure he has known that I wasn't happy with him. But this is par for the course isn't it??! I really hate confrontation though and I try to leave all the difficult stuff to his father.

It's so hard. I knew 'A' when he was younger and he always liked me and we had a very easy-going relationship. But he has changed (as they do), and I had never lived with him before. He has let dh and I down quite badly in the area of trust - we have put our trust in him a few times now and he has 'conned' us and done some things which have shocked us, because we didn't think he was capable of it. Dh also helped him get a second-hand car because he PROMISED he would get work immediately to help pay for it - well that was a few months ago, there is no sign of a job and all he wants to do is go out and have a good time. DH and I are afraid that he will keep up this behaviour indefinitely and if he point blank refuses to find work, we may end up having to support him financially for the next couple of years, whether he lives here or not. Let me tell you, the stress of these issues are one hell of a romance-killer between you & your husband. Neither of you have the energy to deal with it anymore and it becomes depressing... which is why I'm looking forward to 'the end'.

Sorry this has been long... one last comment about whether I would treat my own child the same way - I may love my own child with all my heart, but there is still certain behaviour I would find hard to tolerate, so I don't think I would allow my own child to get away with those things either. In fact I would feel much more comfortable disciplining my own child than someone else's, because I think it's a lot of the UNSAID things between stepparents & stepchildren that really eats you up inside - mainly because the boundaries aren't the same and and you tend to feel as though you have little control. I really think that the stepfamily is probably one of the hardest situations in the world to live in, whether it be because of the stepchild or the stepparent, or both.

Aloha, perhaps if your SD turns into the kind of teenager that tallulah has described and comes to live with you for a few years, you may have some inkling of what I'm talking about. It IS much harder when they're not your own because essentially you are just not related to this person!! No one can deny that there is a definite difference between a biologically-related family and a stepfamily. I think in most cases it's just 'wishful thinking' that a stepparent will come to love someone else's child as much as their own.

Janet - no hard feelings eh??

I just had an awful experience and I do let things like this get to me.

I know you do not like confrontation but try sitting down with your DH and SS and talk - it really does help - it is always the unsaid things that make people paranoid and nasty - tell him how much he is effecting you and how you feel. You never know it may work.

Where does he get money for petrol and to go out from if you are not supplying it??

Could you not take away his car keys until he behaves more responsibly??

I do agree with you that it is a different feeling when you have your own child. I also agree that it is harder to discipline someone else's child, or even to be as open with them. I really hope you work this out. Maybe a big talk with all of you together? Sometimes I think moaning about a situation instead of confronting it is absolutely the worst way to go about it as you just get crosser and crosser, but the person you are cross with has little idea why. And believe me, I'm every bit as guilty of this as anyone. Good luck.

Just been reading this thread (stepmum to 3, one of my own and another due any day now) and have found myself feeling for EVERYONE on this most difficult of subjects. I think what has been said by all just shows what a terribly difficult task being a step parent / step child is, one that neither side can get right all the time, no matter how good our intentions are. Someone said that being a mother is a hard job, but being a stepmother was the hardest job of all. So, so true.
I am always moved by what goes on on this website, how all of us, even though our opinions sometimes differ radically, try and come together to help. The last two postings from Janet and Boe are what Mumsnet is all about. Supportive, practical, caring - despite the differences.

I completely agree Cha, and all I can say to Boe is I really hope it all works out for you with your dd and dp; you deserve some good fortune. Janet, chin up; I have been there and come out of it with a lovely relationship with my stepchildren but it is SO tough when they live with you all the time. I completely agree that the big difference is how comfortable you feel about discipline; this is really not the same when you haven't brought the child up, whatever love you feel. Good luck, I really mean it.