Maintenance and stuff (bit long & ranty)

[jessnbeanie]

OK ...
DP has 4 children, 3 with 3 other ladies and 1 with me ... 3 not his vhoice, ours a joint decision.
oldest in uni but mostly lives at home maybe 2 weeks a term away actually at uni. DP pays £50 a wk.
middle we have 1 week in summer and very little other contact - has only started paying maintenance recently (his decision) the mum has always taken full financial responsibility with occasional asks for help with clothes, school trips etc.
youngest with us one night a week and every other weekend - has the biggest bedrrom here and full wardrobe, toys etc. DP pays £75 a week.
Our DS in tiny boxroom, all clothes off Ebay and inherits older siblings toys (does get new stuff for birthdays obviously).
DP takes home £360 a week.
We have no holidays, our car was a gift from my late auntie and I cannot remember the last time I bought anything for myself, had a haircut, etc.
I'm thinking we're paying way over the odds and whilst the kids are enjoying assorted holidays, new clothes, cars etc. it's starting to wear a bt thin, expecially as I'd love another baby but finances are dictating otherwise ...
Over to you ladies .... Am I being unreasonable ....

It does sounds like he's paying a lot of money a week for his children, I would suggest looking at the csa website for how much would be paid for each child according to their calculator.

However having said that I do find it rather odd that you describe his three oldest children as not being "his choice". If he did not want the responsibility of raising his children he could have taken precautions. Having three children with three different mothers, one of whom he has only recently started providing maintenance for, sounds rather unlucky if it wasn't his choice

Let's be honest, for unlucky read stupid !!!!
One "I didn't realise taking tons of laxatives to make me thin would mean my pill didn't work"
Two "I can't physically have children"
Three ... just stopped taking the pill because she wanted her "requisite child".
I'm afraid I have issue with the whole "you had sex with me that makes you financially (and otherwise) responsible for the child I want to have"
I believe if you make the decision to have a child alone you should be prepared to provide for that child alone.

Fair enough, leaving that to one side as it wasn't really what you were asking about, I've had a quick look on the csa website and using the basic info that you posted and making assumptions it worked out that your DP would pay approx £76 for all three children that don't live with you.

That is quite a difference from what he's paying at the moment.

Wow. A really complicated situation.

For starters, what jumps out is, the eldest is at Uni. So he doesn't actually qualify for "child support" in the respect of what the CSA are used for. Any money your partner pays to him (which should be direct to him, not the Mum really, at his age) is voluntary.

So that would decrease the figure squashedfrogs came up with as there are technically only 2 qualifying children, to £61 a week for the 2 youngest.

The problem is, as much as it's grating on you, will your partner do anything about it? Will he be worried, making changes will rock the boat? But then your child between the two of you shouldn't be losing out and he needs to remember that.

He has two choices that I can see.

Approach the mothers and offer an amount he can better afford, if he can afford to pay more than the CSA would ask for, informing them of how much you would pay through the CSA so they know they are actually getting more than the minimum. They shouldn't get different amounts either really. They should get the same. (or if you want to complicate things further, the Mother of the youngest should get slightly less as on average it would appear you have the child overnight for 2 nights a week).

If they don't like it, contact the CSA and ask for an assessment from them. It looks like they would assess you at £61 a week ...so each mother would get £30.50 a week for their child.

Offer to start paying that to them direct or if they are funny about it, put it away in another account that wont get spent, while sorting out what to do, so you know you have provided for them somehow.

When speaking to the CSA, you should also ask how they work things out when there are more than 2 Parent With Cares, and one of the children stays more than the other, because the mother of the youngest would get less than £30.50 a week due to the child staying with you overnight regularly ...

then look at it another way and maybe it would be better just to say forget the over nights as sadly, when some PWCs notice a reduction is given for it, they stop them and the child loses out.

Hope that's given you some food for thought.

Sorry it's long.

Firstly, age dependant, all his kids should get the same - regardless of what the mother wants / demands and regardless of how much he sees them. I would question whether a uni student needs weekly child support..........

That, by the way, includes your child... he shouldn't be proving less to your child (which by the sounds he is)

Secondly, don't get too caught up on certain things - most of my kids clothes are from Oxfam / ebay... they are young... they need to be sensibly dressed...

squashedfrogs - I don't know if that number would be higher because there are 3 mums to account for too? I don't know tho...

The CSA work out a figure dependent on the number of children, regardless of number of Mothers.

Basically the OPs partner would pay :

They take his NET weekly income.

Reduce it by 15% for the child living with him.

Then as there are 2 qualifying children, they would take 20% of the remaining figure as child support. That 20% would be split equally between the two Mums.

You certainly have no legal obligation to pay maintenance for a child who is at university. And it also sounds like the OP's partner is paying over the odds for the other children too. I would certainly check this out via the CSA, and try and get him to reduce his payments. I know his exes may object, but they can't pursue him for any more than the CSA minimum, even if he's paid more in the past.

Sorry but the 'one night a weeker and every oyher weekender should DEFINITELY not have the biggest bedroom. Insist on your DS having the bigger room as soon as he needs it - if he doesnt already !! I've had all this crap with DSGD and my GD's - though we consider them all ours now. I was told I had to keep one room as a little girls bedroom - could not use it for anything else - office - wardrobe - laundry/ironing etc - because his DGD slept over at ours the odd night once every few months at worst and once every two or three weeks at best. So I put my foot down - but compromised in that I have a bed settee in it now - so can be turned into nice bedroom for sleepovers very easily. But I use it to my benefit the rest of the time. As I pointed out I am already pushed out of a good half of our house by his adult (resident) DSS - I aint making a shrine of half the two rooms that are exclusive to me and DH on the altar of occasional visiting DSGD.

Do not be second in the pecking order for space/facilities etc in your own home when it comes to stepfamily ( visiting or resident ) would be my advice. It gets taken for granted - a precedent gets set and the boundaries get pushed back further and further.

Sorry the reason I mentioned my own GDs was because they sleep even less regularly - once or twice a year - and his little DGD - whom I love dearly dont get me wrong - kicked off - as my two DGDs were sleeping in 'her bedroom' as she put it. Thats not her fault thats because my DH always called it 'her bedroom' and I always said it should be referred to as the spare room - or when she referred to it as hers I always insisted on correcting her saying - "It's only your bedroom when you sleep here - but its also xyz s bedroom when they sleep and rest of the time its GDs and Sudas."

I thought if a child was in uni rp had to pay csa til they are 21?

I used to think that the CSA expected maintenance til a child left uni, however my husband has just been through all this with his ex, and it appears you only have to pay maintenance til a child finishes secondary education, ie A levels/sixth form. If a child does three years in the sixth form, you would have to pay for that extra year, ie til they were 19, but not beyond that.

Child maintenance through the CSA never goes on longer than age 19.

Unless of course arrears are being cleared.

I am sorry all children are a choice unless the children are the result of a pin prick in a condom. If you have sex with someone you risk having a child with them. If you don't want to risk having children you take your own measures to prevent a pregnancy than relying on the word of someone else.

When you start a relationship with someone who already has children you accept they have financial commitments and if that means you have fewer children or have to make do so be it.

I agree that your child should have the largest room.

Thanks (nearly) all of you ... rang the CSA - the guy was really nice and he told me we should be paying just over £50 a week total with the child who stays here most receiving slightly less than the older one. He even asked how we were managing paying what we are !
So I have told DP and I doubt he'll do anything immediately but at christmas (sorry to mention the dreaded C word) the mother of youngest is moving in with her boyfriend (about a 2 minute walk from here - eeek) and DP will reduce payments then ... barring that I guess it'll all stay the same.
Pretty much all DS's clothes are Ebay, Oxfam, etc. and have been since birth - I have no qualms about that. In fact I can't think of very much he's had new.
Still do not accept that shagging = 20+ years financial obligation to someone who has lied their way into parenthood. Berate me all you want, tricking someone into fatherhood doesn't make you a mummy to be proud of. And having known DP for a long long time I was fully aware of his situation but having lived with it for a while now, all his guilt money is doing is funding holidays and hotels and Nintendo DS's and that is unacceptable when I'm scraping money together for shoes.

I can never quite understand how some men pay quite unreasonably high amounts of money to fund children from previous relationships, which results in the child/ren from their present relationship living almost in poverty. Surely there?s a balance to be struck? Or is it a case of exes who make excessive demands, and guilty men who pay over and above the CSA minimum?

I read a dreadful story on another forum, where a woman and her child are practically destitute because her husband sends every penny off to his ex to pay for private school fees for the children from his first marriage .....

It can be a mixture of factors Petal (as with most things). There certainly are exes who make excessive demands, and whilst men don't have to respond to these the pay off for standing up to that sort of ex is often her then badmouthing and/or blatantly lying about the father to his kids, damaging the relationship etc. Lots of men pay up to avoid that, and then as you mention, there's also the guilt thing.

Even if you pay CSA minimum, it's not often the end of the story. For example, if an ex and kids have moved a considerable distance away and the ex then refuses to help drive at all, men have little choice but to suck up ALL the travel costs if they still want to see their kids. You can apply - under certain circumstances - for a travel rebate via the CSA but as this works out to 5p in the pound (last time I looked) this doesn't make much impression if you have to spend £150 a month on petrol.

Lots of men are berated - both by their exes, and by people on here, for "only" paying CSA minimum, but the "new" CSA rules take no account of capital payments made as part of the divorce process. The minimum can still be a considerable expense if you've been cleaned out (and I know people whose exes have lied through their teeth in court re: their own assets and circumstances in order to do this) and have to start again in later life with a comparatively huge and comparatively short term mortgage.

You also have the unbalanced situation re: tax credits (though wigth current news, giod knows what's going to happen there). A parent with care, on a low wage, can in theory get maximum tax credits despite the fact she may receive sizeable maintenance from an ex - it's ignored for HER assessment. Conversely, the person paying it out is deemed to have a larger income than they really do meaning that any children who live with them, can be, IMO, discriminated against - and not protected by tax credits (which I thought was the whole point of them?) because for tax credit purposes that sum isn't ignored in the other direction IYSWIM. Hence children from "2nd" families can end up a lot worse off than their half-siblings.

I do appreciate it can work the other way round of course. I do know that there are plenty of struggling single mums - I was one myself once fior quite some time ..... but there seems little sympathy or even acknowledgement in the big wide world for men who've been screwed over by their exes .... and just to make clear, I am NOT talking about basic child maintenance but a whole heap of other ways in which a spiteful ex can manipulate things to his detriment (and of course to the detriment of other children), not least women who obstruct contact which can then mean ridiculous legal bills if you're not confident enough to self-rep and/or you've had to incur some legal advice along the way.

You're all lovely and clever people and I'm just so greatful that anyone bothered to respond at all.
TBH the only 'mother' we really have a problem with is reasonably calm right now (she's obviously getting some) but I am expecting problems when we do cut the payments when she moves in with new man ... they will then live within spitting distance and they both work with my DP ...
Catsmother - you are so right about Tax Credit thing ... we get less than £8 a week.
I have a friend who is a Single Parent and works damn hard and gets really well paid - she gets little/no maintenance from ex - her Tax Credits last year were more than my DP earned gross!
I have another friend who was separated from husband - he paid all school fees (kids in private schools), huge maintenance, had them every other week and gave her a huge settlement. She gets over £300 a week as is self employed and therefore'earns' very little.
I have no problem with either of them getting help but as you say the system is a bit skewed.