holiday contact order

[Tanga]

DH has decided that he is going to apply to the courts for holiday contact. He has an order for regular contact and some extra holiday contact but no period longer than 2 consecutive nights due to mother's 'issues'. This summer, for example, we are going on a two week family holiday (without DSS, which really upsets DH)and in the following two weeks we will be having DSS for 11 days - but we have to return him every other evening and pick him up in the morning again. Obviously, this means we can't do very much in the way of travelling or holidaying. DSS (now 8) would love to come on holiday with us. He regularly gets to go away with his Mum so it's not just for the holiday, IYSWIM.

DH has organised, paid for and attended Mediation but his ex refused it. He made a final request for more time this summer and she refused it. However, on the advice of our MK friend, he wants to write a final letter to the ex in the hope that we can avoid going to court again; but we don't want it to sound threatening (do this or we will take you to court type thing)but we really want to move forward with this - aiming to be able to take DSS with us on our family holiday next year.

Anybody have any idea how to word it/what to put in?

shameless bump!

sorry, no advice here, but good luck!

Sorry no advice either but wishing you well. How horrible for you, and your DSS.

I cant beleive a grown woman could have issue with this.

well i suppose you just keep it child centred.....but really,if it gets to court,you'll get that from the judge....and you could ask for more time at xmas,easter whilst you're there....and some of half term too...

Thanks for the responses - I'm a bit nervous about the whole idea - it was horrible last time.

If we have to go back to court we'll ask for half the holidays although it would be good to build up to that, making sure DSS is OK with it at every point.

We'd really like to avoid court and have no wish to upset her - but on the other hand DSS was gutted last time we went on holiday without him, and he doesn't get to see much of his family on Dad's side because of distance. When DH raised this his ex said not to tell him we were going on holiday - but you can't expect an excited 3 year old to lie (our DS) and DSS isn't stupid, he is going to wonder why he's not seeing Daddy for 2 weeks.

I am stunned that you have to take dss back every two night and pick him up in the morning -ffs

Have you got someone neutral that could read a letter and say whether it was threatening?

Don't mention court in the letter just say you want to move things forward and want dss for three nights at christmas, four nights at easter and then this will prepare him for two weeks in the summer as you are wanting to take him to see his paternal family. State the dates and ask her to agree them by october or a particulr date.

That way you have plenty of time to get things moving if she doesn't want to cooperate

I think you need to raise points such as

DSS is older and being away for more than 2 consecutive nights is not an issue to him.

DSS has expressed on several occasions a strong desire to go on holiday with you.

DSS has expressed strong desire to see more of the extend family on his father side which is only possible should further consecutive nights be given due to distance.

You see the way forward as increasing it to 3 consecutive nights over the summer, then 4 over the Christmas, 5 at Easter with a view to taking him away for a week next summer and if at anytime DSS is unhappy that you are happy to review the situation.

Do you live close enough that he could feasible have Friday night from school to Monday morning being dropped school to happen?

We've been advised to specifically mention court as the letter is the last step before actually applying. It's only fair to give her some warning, plus she's a great prevaricator (sp?) so we need to show her that DH isn't just going to drop this. And so she can maybe get some legal advice that might help her consider.

Really we'd be happy to agree to anything to get things moving forward but she is absolutely refusing. DSS's elder brother is a teenager and has never been allowed to spend a night away from his mum or grandma. In fact when DH first went to court she said she felt overnight contact was not appropriate until DSS was 12!

Excellent points though, about actual proposals (although she will see these as controlling) and also about DSS's wishes - but again we are worried about her response to that kind of comment - she tries to bully him into retracting them eg when he said he wanted to go on holiday with us last year she told him his birthday would have to be cancelled etc etc.

We only live about 15 minutes away but are not allowed to pick up or drop off at school. We do have Friday to Sunday contact once a month but we had to fight really hard to get it. We have always said that if DSS said he wanted to go back to his mum's we would take him immediately, and that has happened once in the 6 years we have had contact.

Can you suggest in the letter that you would like to go to mediation to discuss these forward steps with her rather than taking it to courts? That way you can make the point that you are going to take it to court but clearly stating that you want to sort it out amicably?

Can also mention that has dss gets older you feel it is increasingly important that he gets to experience a male role model in a happy/well functioning family environment to help his transition into adulthood - or something along those lines!

as i am in a tell it like it is mood today, having lost it and told DH DSDs mother is a disgusting controlling fing bitch using the kids, in ear shot of DSD (yes I know I shouldnt have, no Im not proud of it, yes its the truth, no DSD shouldnt have heard it), dont go back to court re holidays, ask for a total review of contact

you cant get him from school or take him to school, wtf is that about - control thats what

standard contact is 1 overnight per week, every other weekend, half of school hols, alternative Christmas and Birthday (although DH settled for not asking for those so as not to antagonise ex, but thats by the by as she is totally antagonised by the fact he didnt roll over and die when she stopped him seeing DSD for 6months and told her, her dad didnt love her and didnt want to pay for her)

if you want my advice, go for proper contact, but once you have the order, ensure you take her back to court over breeches, or you will end up like us, with a 14 year old who is too scared to ask her bitch oh i mean mother if she can see her dad, and a mother who just ignores the court order whenever she feels like it and hides behind making a 14 year old responsible for the contact, knowing she is too scared of her to ask for it and therefore never able to plan anything

Have you joined FNF, Tanga? The forums are great for helping you compose letters x

Thanks everyone - have been members of FNF for years, just sort of feel comfier here and hope that by getting advice from other mums we might be able to be more understanding/mum friendly?

Anyway, we have already suggested mediation (but only about a million times...) and also organised it, paid for it and DH attended his session. Ex didn't.

So, have done letter with the points raised here, as tactfully as possible. So we're going to go on our holiday and see what happens when we get back!

Glass of wine and chocolates at the ready when you read the reply!

The original contact order limiting your DH's contact with his son to no more than two consecutive nights sounds absolutely extraordinary. How come no provision was ever made for holidays?

It is hardly an unreasonable request and I think you need to explain to your DH's exW that your DH will go to court to have the contact order amended if she refuses to negotiate a more appropriate contact order - and, of course, he will obtain the right to holiday with his son. So why doesn't she accept that she must negotiate it and avoid the hassle of court?

That course of action has always worked for us with reasonable requests - albeit, on occasion, via DP's lawyer and his exW's lawyer.

DSS's mum has mental health issues which obviously complicated matters. Provision was made for the holidays in that extra time was ordered, but the recommendation from the psychiatrist's report was that mum would find it easier to cope if the regular contact was established and not increased for at least a year.

One of the issues is that mum has a problem with decisions and so just ignores all problems, requests or whatever, because she can't cope with taking responsibility for things. So mentally she can cope better if the court 'forces' her and makes the decisions about contact. It's a very difficult situation all round.

I see.

I would have thought that it would be in everybody's interests, therefore, if there were a court order establishing contact arrangements that ensure your DSS gets to spend proper time with his father and his father's family, to include decent-length holidays.

Just a brief update - sent the letter before we headed off for our holiday (hopefully the last one without DSS) and when we got back DH asked her if she had got his letter. She said she had, but had been too busy to write a response. So DH has just had to return DSS after a single overnight even though we are picking him up again tomorrow first thing - except as of tonight's drop off we aren't picking him up until 'later' because it is his grandad's second wife's birthday so they just have to go round and see her.

Sigh.

She sounds like what im dealing with. We weretold to try and progress contact out of court and two years later haven't even had one overnight stay! I totally love my step children and we have a very loving safe and happy relationship no reason for them not to come and stay from their mother other than she just doesn't want it. She won't acknowledge me and even came and had a go at me telling me i had no right to be at the childrens school play (long story!)We have had a phone call saying i am to stop making cakes and doing crafty activities with them (crafty as in glitter paint and generally making stuff) i am familier with the accusation of control but quite simply i know in myself im just not like that so have thought and think its more about her loosing control... then i think if she feels she needs control pity on her!
I am also familier with things going home only to never be seen again and ontop of theat she has told the children some of the items have been returned when they haven't!
I understand the feelings of court as it is a horrible experience however its probably best to go back with a written idea of how you want it to progress because it is thoughtful and right to put the children first you dont have to go for XYZ ats always good to think out of the box for want of a better phrase.
As for us having just been refused a one night camping trip with their cousins in the Same county she gave us four days notice of a two week holiday in ibiza and ignored five phonecalls and two texts to let us know they got there safely! We are happy that the children have the experience but want a little less arrogance from the mother who puts herself before the children and uses them to take pips at my hubby. (weekly!)

I believe you should go to court sadly for the sake of the children and base every decision around love.

We will be going back shortly and are working on a progressive contact basis oh yes and she too has refused mediation but i have thought about this one and believe she will only give contact that the court tells her to so going half way dosn't come into the way she sees things!

The very best of luck keep us posted on your progress.