U8 grassroots football - is this fair?

[lauribec]

DS has been training with a club for 5-6 months now. OH was told son couldn’t play matches as his team was “full”.

Okay, so we continued with training 2x a week and it’s now been reduced to 1x 1hr session. There’s been quite a bit of messing about during the training and the coach put a message out on WhatsApp to say he’d need to speak to some parents individually (I anticipated I could be one of them!) day of training I get a text to say how my boy and apparently 2 others won’t be able to come to training for the rest of May and part of June as he wants to focus on the boys playing all the tournaments.

I took the opportunity to ask if my boy will get the chance to play once these tournaments are over. I then get sent a long voice note basically saying no he won’t get to play for at least the next year but he could train. He was saying the FA have changed the rules over something. Said he’s allowed to sign on 10 lads but he wants to keep it to 7 as otherwise they struggle to get them game time.

When I broke this news to my son he cried. He’s known the entire time he’s the only kid not playing the games and that’s not a nice feeling for him. I wasn’t rude in my message back but I did express how upset my son was. Coach had also asked what I thought and if game time was important to my son (isn’t it to most children?! 😅) I replied to say it is important to him and asked if there were any other options for my boy.

Part of the voicemail annoyed me a fair bit, he said he did have a space available but an old player has just come back from Australia and has rejoined the team therefore taking the space. Coach doesn’t know but I actually know the family and the dad had told me just days before that he has moved his teams as he thought the coach his son had was a c**t. This family have been back in the UK over 18 months and their son was playing for a different team at the same club.

Funnily enough it’s all the better players that have made it into the tournament team, his son included. In the time we’ve spent there I must say it comes across really cliquey. Lots of “banter” in the group chat between coach and certain parents.

Surely this can’t be fair? I thought grassroots was all about being inclusive. Any thoughts or opinions welcome 😊

Yep, happened to us too. It's rubbish. And only gets worse as they get older and more competitive.
So many kids must give up on sport ag an early age for this reason.

Wow. What about the many volunteers behind the coaches ...ordering the kits, equipment, registering playing, fundraising, arranging refs, marking pitches?!

The club will have an ethos and it's usually based on facilitating football for all kids funnily enough.

The ego on some coaches is unreal and it shows in behaviour like this on 'their team'. 🙄

That sounds like a very competitive team...at that age it should be about inclusivity. Is there another local team that is more fair-minded?

My boy played for a team that made sure everyone had equal playing time, whatever their level. It really built his confidence. As they get older though it does get more competitive.

I’d complain to the club.

is your son misbehaving in sessions? That might be one reason the coach doesn’t want to play him.

My dc plays in the local teams under 8s and all children get equal match time. They've got enough children for 2 separate teams. But you have to remember these teams are run by volunteers. The more volunteers the more children can play. Is there any chance you or your partner could volunteer?

My son plays in a massive community football organisation and once they moved from 5s to 7s they split them up into different groups of around 10 kids by ability. There are 4 teams at his age (9, but this started at 7) and they play at 4 different levels. It’s the whole area who does this so they play against other teams at the same level. Doesn’t stop the drama though. Honestly this seems like a great time to explore other options - it’s pretty toxic and it only gets worse as the kids get older. So much bad behaviour from the kids, the parents and even the coaches. Always loads of chatter when a kid is moved up a team, so much drama around who attends practice or not and it just keeps getting more exhausting.

If your son likes team sports can you look for rugby or basketball or anything else?

In that age group any child who is signed is supposed to have equal game times to every other player. This applies up to U11s. Unfortunately it’s not legally binding but this is what the FA expects. You could take this higher in the club to the person who overseas the club.

as you have been paying then game time needs to be included. If he has too many players signed on then he needs to cut a few players.

so rubbish for your son. Personally I would find another club. Also are there any development schemes over the summer holidays? They may be worth looking into.

It sounds like you need to find another club, our club gives everyone playing time as long as they train regularly. But why don’t you know whether your son is messing about at training? Do you not watch him train or speak to him about it? If you can’t trust him to behave properly you should be staying to keep an eye on him not leaving it for the coaches to sort out imo. The coaches are volunteers not teachers and they will soon lose patience if he’s disrupting the sessions with silly behaviour. It sounds suspicious to me if they’ve asked him not to come to training for the next two months.

Yes it’s common and yes it’s rubbish. But, you’ve now said that there are other team for his age group so the logical solution is he moves to another group. I know you said he wants to stay with his friends, but if he deemed not good enough to play for that team, he needs to agree to move or carry on not getting play time.

I’ve got two DCs who’ve been playing football for many years. We’ve had some great coaches and some awful ones. Same with the parents of the kids. Grassroots football does seem to attract drama, unfortunately.

Not what you asked about (and I’ve had good and bad experiences including my husband being a very fair coach for many years but still getting stick 🤣 so I really sympathise) but how about trying cricket for the summer? Would also widen his “sporty” friends who may be in other teams.

I find the world of kids football fascinating (abd pretty awful). I'm a LKS2 teacher with kids the same age and hear a lot about it. I can't think of any other sport where children are treated this way at grassroots, but it's definitely common in football. I don't buy at all that it's volunteer led, his club, his rules etc etc. These are children and the clubs are part of a wider organisation. No one would say that about Brownies or Cubs.

Find another team, there will be one that is a better fit for your son. Different teams, even within the same club, have different ethos and style of coaching some are super competitive and others are more inclusive.

He might be better in a football skills class set up until he gains confidence and ready to step up to match level. Often they'll have pathways into teams too.

In our area there is leagues A to E and you find a team that sits within your ability level. So if this is an A league team your son might be a far better fit for a C league team. You might have to try a few before you find the right one.

He has been treated badly though, he's only little and that's hard. It's our job as parents to build them back up from that. My son was dropped from a team age 12 and it really does knock their confidence, but he found another team which was far more nurturing where he thrived and made some great friendships.

I think there are a couple of things here. If your son is misbehaving at training (do you stay and watch? Is he messing around?) and is one of the weaker players currently, that could explain why the coach is behaving as he is. I don’t think the coach is dealing with the situation well - he should come and have an honest conversation with you about your son maybe moving to one of the other teams in the club where the level will suit him better and he will get more game time. Ignoring you is not on. However, while it should be the coach who pro-actively suggests this, sometimes you have to take matters into your own hands and I think you should check out the possibility of moving if your son wants to play more matches.

While giving everyone a chance to play is important, it’s no fun for anyone when a kid is clearly out of their depth in a team. These are seven year olds - they want to win, and however much we tell them as parents to be kind and support their teammates, they will start to e.g. avoid passing to the lower ability player or getting frustrated with them, making that child upset. Much better to play for a more suitable team for a year and then look at moving back if DS has improved and there is a space - although I appreciate you may not want to move back given the coach’s behaviour.

But we are talking about the coaches here not all the other volunteers (having been all of those I do know what it takes to have a team). Wow yourself..

But we are talking about the coaches here not all the other volunteers (having been all of those I do know what it takes to have a team). Wow yourself.

The kit vokunteer or volunteer parent linesperson doesn't train and choose the team so yeah it’s the coaches decision. Anyone is welcome to become a coach if they don’t like it.

I have helped run grassroots football teams that my boys have played in from U6 through to U16
You are unfortunately signed up to either a competitive club or the particular team coach is very competitive.
The younger age groups should be focusing on fun for all, not just winning games at all costs and personally I would recommend you look for another club.

V common in football I’m afraid. DS loves football, but is signed up with a small village team. Both the coaches are teachers in their day job, so I think it makes them very mindful to include everyone and give them fair game time.

Any chance you can get your DS into rugby instead? I find the ethos is completely different. Much more inclusive.

No this is not standard. There are lots of well run teams out there but also plenty of clubs run by dickheads who don’t know that much about coaching or children. My ds2 had similar treatment when he was 6. We walked away and found a nicer club. He grew to be a really good footballer, playing at academy and county level.

You've missed my point.

The club ethos and the England Footballs guidelines of grass roots football is bigger than any coach....and yet it's the coaches decisions that affect the players. A bad coach does so much harm to children's confidence in sport and I am fed up of hearing about how we should respect them.

I volunteer at my football club, I do it to facilitate football for all the kids in our town, and yet even in our well run club there are coaches with huge egos cos playing at being premier league managers chasing league promotions. They undermine all the good work of the club, and trust me in a good club that coach is considered a problem one.

And actually, knowing the volunteer hours it takes to run a club the coaches do very little within that, and if they stepped down there'd be plenty of parents who would step up rather than see their team fold. They are not as important as they'd like to have us parents believe.

Maybe you need to read about what grassroots football actually is.

The Grassroots Code

And the Junior Premier league exists for competition selective football. there is a place for it, just not in grassroots.

Junior Premier League

I really hope these links give confidence to parents to challenge those coaches who do not follow the grassroots code. I really wish I'd known about them sooner so I could've advocated better for my 6 year son when he was being treated badly by his coach.

Now I'm off to volunteer for 4 hours at my son's club serving bacon sandwiches!

Aside from your patronisation I have previously said I have volunteered at all levels and worked in football. My son has played grassroots, JPL and is now at a Cat 1 academy playing for his country so I am well aware thank you. I also have had to deal with complaints and have worked with the FA so know those rules pretty well. Just because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean they don’t understand something or are wrong. My kids have played for fun and then got competitive and it is the coaches that supported that dream not bacon sandwiches.

Many coaches spend hours every week at games, training, speaking to parents, arranging pitches, referees etc. and we shouldn’t respect them? Well I do - thanks to them my son is where he is. When our coach stepped down (serious medical issue) no one was able to take over the team and it folded. No big line of parents to step in. I guess between my kids and the 7 teams they have been on I have experienced it and seen it. A lot of parents aren’t able to/cant/don’t attend games due to very tough circumstances and you think there is a line up there - I guess as you actually do need a qualification to coach and the money to pay for it not everyone can just step forward.

Not every club has loads of people waiting to volunteer. I have seen many many games where parents don’t want to run the line, have to be chased for dues, complain constantly etc. Your scenario is dreamlike and isn’t the reality for every team. How many times do we see a parent shout abuse endlessly at a ref and the rules are followed and there is a complaint made and then nothing.

You don’t need bacon sandwiches to run a successful team. You need great and dedicated coaches.

We struggle enough getting kids to turn up to practice regularly and for parents to pay their dues. There definitely aren’t hordes of parents waiting in the wings to help out. And even fewer with the ability to coach. And as I have neither the ability nor the interest I can’t judge how they manage this. I am very involved in the PTA and it’s a total nightmare getting parents to show up or help so when they complain about something I have very little interest (or time) to care much so imagine it’s much the same.

@Besafeeatcake I didn't intend to patronise you, so apologies if it came across like that. Stepping up to be a coach is a big deal, it's time consuming and not for everyone. My husband coached rugby for years, I do understand what's involved.

What I am though is passionate about all kids having access to grassroots football and that it takes more than a group of coaches to run a football club.

What the OP describes is a position I found myself in 10 years ago with my very little boy, so it struck a nerve. I will never forget the image of him tugging on the coaches sleeve asking when it would be his turn...after the 2nd half of the development match! He'd waited patiently while every other boy played the whole league match and they didn't even have the decency to start him in the next one. You can't possibly think this is ok within grassroots? He was just 6. No, I did not respect that coach, not that he ever knew, or would have cared tbh! Being a football coach does not get you automatic respect. If I knew then what I know now I would have done things very differently, which is why sharing the grassroots code is important to me, if only to help one other parent advocate for their child.

There is and should always be a place for elite junior sports in all disciplines, for football it's the JPL. But grassroots is not the place for elitism and exclusion. It baffles me why all adults within grassroots aren't on the same page. I have come to realise it is a hill I will die on I feel that strongly about it! We had a local EFL league one academy coach come and give a talk to our coaches, he spoke so eloquently about grassroots and what it really means - ie happy kids of all abilities learning the skills of team work, respect and discipline while having fun.

You might be interested to know our bacon rolls and end of season BBQ make a much needed £3,000 for the club each year, staffed by many wonderful parents and grandparents. Our club pays for coaching qualifications, first aid training, supplies a coaches jacket and all training equipment ...even a free hot drink and bacon roll on match day for all coaches and refs! Maybe that isn't the norm, we are in a fairly affluent area but I don't believe that's the main factor. We are lucky to have an excellent chair and safeguarding officer who really champion the ethos of grassroots.

I fully appreciate volunteers can be hard to come by, so many parents already volunteer with PTAs, cubs, hockey etc and of course a few just never do anything, it's always been this way. But I do think that a coach has the ability to create a supportive community amongst the parents, and if there is no parent engagement at all, then really that coach might need to reflect on why.

Added to that, when there is a very dominant character running a team in a way that not everyone might agree with, parents naturally step back (as was my experience above, very few liked that man, but we just accepted it, with hindsight god knows why) But I would guarantee if that overbearing coach steps down, there would be parents that would gladly step up.

Everyone deserves respect, of course, I too have seen shameless disrespect of refs, even those under 16 which is shocking. Football culture can be notoriously toxic, sadly. But respect comes from the top down, and no I do not respect a coach who excludes a players by refusing to take a squad of ten to a five a side game, which is what I understand the OP is querying. Would you do that as a grassroots coach, exclude some players to maximise game time for others? (talking league matches here, not club run tournaments which often stipulate smaller squads of course)

Obviously, it goes without saying that parents should be present at training and matches certainly until at least 12 yrs, coaches are not childminders, it's not childcare. I guess with paid coaches it blurs the lines, we've always had volunteer coaches so that's been a very clear boundary at any clubs my children have been involved with - football, rugby and athletics.

I have had experience of a team where my husband was coach in an extremely fair and welcoming club; a more competitive team where my son was the weakest player but enjoyed the training, didn’t get much game time but was there every week and had the stamina to play when some of the better players ran out of steam (all agreed with the coach) and the crazy situation at primary. This was where anyone could train, then the team was selected. The coach picked the best players but some wouldn’t want to play because they had upcoming big matches with their teams. Then some parents complained the weakest never got to play matches. Coach had to select a “core” and add some weaker ones every week. Some of those didn’t even want to play! It wasn’t a cohesive team and we were walked all over by other school teams (some with boys at Southampton academy). As others have said, this shouldn’t have mattered but there were comments made on and off the pitch, children crying. Poor coach tried to be as fair as he could! Ironically my two eldest were weak players but before this system, it never occurred to me or them that they should be picked! My youngest was often picked, but team morale was bad all round then. In maths challenge, they’d obviously pick the strongest.

@Ithinkofawittyusernamethenforgetit a slight tangent but that’s exactly right - school wouldn’t take the “working towards the expected standard” children to the maths challenge, or someone who has never played chess before to a chess tournament - yet when it comes to sports, suddenly everyone is expected to be given a chance to play in a football tournament or athletics meet. Thankfully our school is not like this but I know many are. My view is that the academic kids have chances to shine all the time, and the sporty kids should also be given the chance to shine in their own way when the opportunity comes up.