Gareth Southgate

[AFingerofFudge]

I'm a big football fan and like a lot of people I have issues with some of the decisions made by GS during the Euros. However, the relentless online "jokes" about him and how cautious he has been have gone (for me) way beyond an acceptable level and is actually bullying behaviour. We seem to have no ability to be gracious and have turned into a nation that likes to savage anyone that gets it wrong.

I feel sorry for him in some respects but he's made some dumb decisions this tournament. England didn't deserve to go through. There is some amazing talent in that team and it's being wasted.

The England team and performances are just a reflection of the man at the helm. Ponderous, pedestrian, unimaginative, afraid to take any sort of risk, overly-cautious, and dull.

Southgate has always been utterly terrified of the fans and press, so he plays a ridiculously conservative brand of football given the talent available, and as he's clearly a very limited thinker in a tactical sense, it ends up with the entire team playing as much less than what should be the sum of it's parts. Underwhelming, dull performances that are enough to dispatch poor teams in qualifying, but immediately get found out as soon as they come up against genuinely good teams.

You have to wonder why, since 2018, with the array of "top talent" available, the entire England gameplan revolves around lumping it into the channels and then throwing yourself at the ground to create set-piece opportunities. SP is an important part of the game, but it shouldn't be the focus of your gameplan and primary method of attack. Southgate isn't a "clown", and he doesn't deserve any hate, but he's miles out of his depth managing what should be a top international side, and it shows in every competition they participate in.

Sorry! I just read your point about Bellingham and it seems as if you were connecting that gesture to Southgate - sorry for misunderstanding!

I totally agree that Southgate is being treated very unfairly and also that the team are underperforming.

I’d be really interested to know the exact reasons for why they’re not playing as well as they could be, but I suppose it’s made up of lots of variables, which is part of the reason why football is so frustrating - and exciting - to watch.

I wonder if they’re underperforming partly because:

1. there is a lot pressure and expectation on them and they’re finding it particularly difficult to handle this year, especially after having got to the final in the last Euros (and been sooo close to winning)
2. the players are tired after having just finished a domestic football season
3. GS isn’t making the most of the players’ potential because his in-match decisions on substitutions aren’t always very good

Re points 1 and 2, I don’t really know how to solve those, as there is always going to be pressure on the players (and I think they generally seem to deal with it very well) and post-season tiredness is always going to be a factor to think about when going into an international competition.

I’d be really interested to know the exact reasons for why they’re not playing as well as they could be, but I suppose it’s made up of lots of variables, which is part of the reason why football is so frustrating - and exciting - to watch.

Because Southgate is playing them in the wrong positions.

Yes, that’s very true. I don’t understand why though. Is it because there aren’t enough players who are good enough for the team? Or because, actually, we do have good enough players but those ones we need are injured (eg. Maguire, Shaw…)?

It's partly this, but there is a complete lack of freedom and flexibility within the formation that renders the football in possession totally sterile. Players are not making runs into space, they are not rotating position within the ranks, and there is a visible rigidity to the side that makes it almost impossible for any sort of free-flowing play.

Again, it's just a reflection of the manager. The team plays cautious, sterile, inflexible, rigid football because that's all Southgate permits them to do.

I believe there's criticism regarding him being too slow to make necessary changes. For example, he waited too long to bring on Toney in order to unsettle Slovakia's centre backs. He kept Kyle Walker on, even though he was having a bad game

He's heavily criticised for not being proactive enough and was too slow to respond to what was going on on the pitch against Slovakia. He picked the wrong team, and was too slow to bring on Cole Palmer. He didn't use Anthony Gordan on the left or bring on Trent Alexander Arnold at right back. However he did bring on Eze who played a part in Kane's goal.

He's being criticised for not understanding his squad. He picked a team with no width on the left, and didn't use Gordan against Peter Pekarik. He watched England run out of steam during the game but waited until the 66th minute to make his first change, then nearly 20 minutes to bring on Eze.

The problem seems to be that Southgate struggles to alter the flow of the game and our win against Slovakia was down to luck.

There is a problem with English football culture.
It is not a wider societal problem, as Scotland does not have the same issues (other than the club that pledges loyalty to England). Nor does rugby league, which can have fans at a Wigan St Helens game mix in a way that would not be possible at a Blackburn Burnley game.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX I agree with your post completely. It's really frustrating to see players being fielded that are not up to the job anymore, players being played in the wrong positions and players who are not being played. It is the personal attacks I'm against.

…and the British pundits started criticising him and taking the piss.

Social media is nonsense. It's best to switch it off.

I don't things have changed too much. I remember when he missed the penalty in the Euros. He was probably the most hated man in sport at the time. There was no social media but the newspaper... the sun yuk!

The UK loves to bully.... I don't think it's just due to SM... been like that for years.

Also Gareth Southgate time as England manager is over... 8-9 years and no trophy. The gig is up

Southgate - you beauty!

I think the nation might be coming to a belated realisation that Gareth Southgate has done quite a good job. One undeserved loss in a 38-game league season doesn't stop you winning the competition but tournament football is different.

Even as a big Southgate fan, I couldn't understand why he persisted with Foden who had done very little in five games, then Foden was superb last night. That's why he's England manager, he knows more than the armchair critics. Not only does he have to deal with everyone thinking they could do a better job but fans are perpetually howling with irrational rage when their own star player from their favourite team isn't picked. My Liverpool-supporting friend is still bleating on about Trent Alexander-Arnold, who started the tournament as a first choice, was genuinely rubbish in two games, and has now lost his place to a teenager.

Agree with this.

He is clearly someone who likes to take time to do things - taking time to build his team, his vision and the team culture. He’s also someone who is naturally cautious and reflective, rather than being impulsive.

These are all very good qualities but they have meant that people have criticised him for various things, like being boring, not playing exciting football, not taking the initiative enough, not being sufficiently tactical..

Whilst these are all valid points to consider, I think they don’t really fit into his vision for English football and the way he likes to play. He clearly has an overarching strategy, which is not without its risks but clearly suits his team and is paying off. This strategy isn’t really a natural fit for tournament football, but it’s obviously paying off.

Does he only own 1 white top I want to know.....

Saw this on facebook earlier

This is spot on. Thanks for sharing.

Probably a lucky one!

And here you see the idiocy of certain groups of fans…

southgate is not an idiot, he knows far more about how to win international tournament games than any of us. Statistics prove him to be very successful and if anyone thinks winning one of these things is easy then they are the idiot here.

you and every other fan out there would take “winning ugly” all day long in international tournaments.

as for Kane. Criticise his performance if you like, speculate on the injury he’s carrying, discuss his lack of movement, but insults just show your level.

Yep

it’d be lovely to see some of the critics on this thread accept that he seems to deliver results despite not playing the type of football they would like him to and accept that just maybe it’s thought through and effective

I love Harry Kane, I think he is a great player and captain. He has his ups and downs like everybody else, but overall, he is one of my all time favourites.

I think he should be replaced by Watkins.

Me too ❤️❤️

I don’t think he should be replaced just yet. He’s still got plenty to offer the team.

I think having a strategy like in last night’s match - subbing Kane for Watkins, but much earlier than in the game last night(!!) - is a very good idea. It lets Kane show what he can do and also gives Watkins experience.

The only thing is that, if Kane gets taken off and the match goes to penalties, I don’t think he can be brought back on to take a penalty. That’s an issue, as he’s an amazing penalty taker. We have got lots of other fantastic penalty takers on the team (the England-Switzerland match being a case in point!), but he is among them and he really should be part of that group, to give us the best possible chance of winning penalties if it comes to that.

Let's have a break from all.the amateur football pundits who think they would be a better England manager.
We are in the final after all!!