Why is Mboma allowed to run in 200m?

[thelastgoldeneagle]

Just watched the women's 200m final. Silver was won by Christine Mboma, who was going to compete in the 400m but wasn't allowed to because of DSD - but doesn't this mean she's biologically male??

Surely her coach knew this??

And so she's being training for the 200m and manages to get silver after a few weeks? How is this fair?

I saw this - www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2021/aug/02/masilingi-and-mboma-racing-against-olympic-elite-and-complex-cruelty - but this seems pretty biased...

Yes, ‘she’ has XY genes and so is male. Same with her fellow countrywoman and representative in the 200m, Masilingi. Apparently, they are allowed to compete in the shorter distance because the advantages conferred by DSD don’t kick in at shorter distances . I hope these rules are changed in the upcoming review.

There is a running thread on the subject in feminism, if you’re interested

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4312328-Female-Namibian-runners-change-events-due-to-too-high-testosterone

Have just seen that and popped over there, thank you!

But Mboma sounds like a woman (in her interview), and looks like a woman...

@thelastgoldeneagle

Have just seen that and popped over there, thank you!

But Mboma sounds like a woman (in her interview), and looks like a woman...

But she has XY chromosomes.

No DSD doesn’t automatically mean they have XY chromosomes. They may have XX or XXY chromosomes but with male sexual organ / hormonal development.

I just think it’s sad that these ladies have to fight to compete while any man can claim to be a woman and qualify without even a hormone test.

Both are unfair.

She really really doesn't look like a woman in terms of musculature and TBH facially she looks pretty male. I am not suggesting that having masculine facial features is what makes her male, her chromosomes do that, more responding to the comment that she looks female.

@Ozanj

No DSD doesn’t automatically mean they have XY chromosomes. They may have XX or XXY chromosomes but with male sexual organ / hormonal development.

I just think it’s sad that these ladies have to fight to compete while any man can claim to be a woman and qualify without even a hormone test.

These ones don't have xx chromosomes they have XY chromosomes and that is why they can't compete in the 400m

Not everyone with a DSD has XY chromosomes. But EVERY athlete to which the 'DSD' regulations applies does, because (see link) it only applies to the following people:

1. Which athletes fall under the DSD regulations?

The DSD regulations only apply to individuals who are:

legally female (or intersex) and
who have one of a certain number of specified DSDs, which mean that they have:
male chromosomes (XY) not female chromosomes (XX)
testes not ovaries
circulating testosterone in the male range (7.7 to 29.4 nmol/L) not the (much lower) female range (0.06 to 1.68 nmol/L); and
the ability to make use of that testosterone circulating within their bodies (i.e., they are ‘androgen-sensitive’).

www.worldathletics.org/news/press-release/questions-answers-iaaf-female-eligibility-reg

Because they haven't found any evidence that DSD have an unfair advantage at 200m but they have at other distances.

I remain unconvinced tbh...

@RedToothBrush

Because they haven't found any evidence that DSD have an unfair advantage at 200m but they have at other distances.

I remain unconvinced tbh...

they just mean women haven't been kept completely out of the medals like in the 800 in Rio! It seems that women will have to be beaten at every distance until they accept that there is an advantage for males at that distance

It is baffling that the regulations do not apply to all events.

(not to mention the fact that the require reduced testosterone level is 3 times the upper female level and that it does not account for physical advantages that persist despite reducing circulating testosterone levels.)

"Mboma and Masilingi are women. The raised testosterone levels, often a result of internal sexual characteristics, is simply a part of who they are."
What do they mean by "internal sexual characteristics?" Do they mean testes? I think they mean testes. Producing testosterone.

Later in the article they are pretty hard on the requirement to suppress testosterone... so presumably they also think that ordinary biological males- not biological males with DSDs, but common or garden ordinary XY chaps- should just be able to wear pink hairbands and compete as women if they choose, with no chemical or surgical alteration at all?

It’s completely unfair. Someone who has just taken up a new event (200m) within the last month but is able to set an under 20 age group world record despite not knowing how to start using blocks, or run a bend clearly has a huge advantage. Do we have to wait till we have gold, silver and bronze going to intersex athletes before IOC will change the rules??
They were in about 7th position with about 40m to go ffs!! It felt like watching a mixed relay the way they went past the other athletes

Its a bloody farce.

@RedToothBrush

Because they haven't found any evidence that DSD have an unfair advantage at 200m but they have at other distances.

I remain unconvinced tbh...

Seb Coe did a great interview about this earlier.

He explained they've had 10-12 years of research but the fact that they switched events and did so well does mean it needs relooking at.

Basically, rather than having a rule which means that many one who has gone through male puberty is automatically excluded from women's races, we have to go through this farce where they have to eliminate races one by one. It's utterly absurd.

Incidentally, they are absolutely permitted to run in those other races but they would have to artificially lower their testosterone which they're not prepared to do. Anyone would think it gives them an advantage ...

I feel desperately sorry for DSD athletes. Some don't even find out they have the condition until they reach a high level in athletics and they then have to face the whole world knowing their intimate medical information at the same time as struggling to be allowed to continue to compete and do what they love.

But they can't be allowed to compete with an unfair advantage. It just seems that IOC have pushed the problem onto a different event and a different set of female athletes. I hope they're right about there being no advantage but I doubt it. If that was the case, why wouldn't 200m races be mixed gender anyway?

I feel desperately sorry for DSD athletes. Some don't even find out they have the condition until they reach a high level in athletics and they then have to face the whole world knowing their intimate medical information at the same time as struggling to be allowed to continue to compete and do what they love

Bit of a coincidence, though, that Mboma and Masilingi, two phenomenal teenage athletes who both turn out to have this very specific DSD (male chromosomes and internal testes) happen to have the same coach, even though it's being loudly denied that anybody had any prior suspicion at all about their amazing times.

Mboma ran the 400m in June, in Poland, and won with a time of 48.54. The very talented Justyna Święty-Ersetic was soundly beaten into second at 51.91. Like the result in the 200m Olympic race, Mboma's result in that 400m was another under-20 world record, and was the fastest of the year at that point.

The performances of these two still-inexperienced athletes seem to have been truly spectacular for a while and yet nobody ever stopped to think about it. Apparently.

Omg if you have XY chromosomes you are male. Medically this is not a grey area however much some posters wish it to be. Sex is binary that is why DSD is DSD and not some sort of 3rd sex.

Make athletes should not be competing in female events under any circumstances, it is completely ridiculous.

What opened my eyes to all this was when I found out that all three medalists for the women's 800m at Rio 2016 have the same DSD which affects only those with XY chromosomes.

A tiny percentage of the population have a DSD. An even smaller percentage have that particular (rare) DSD. But all 3 medalists shared that in common?

It seems....deliberate.

I feel desperately sorry for DSD athletes. Some don't even find out they have the condition until they reach a high level in athletics and they then have to face the whole world knowing their intimate medical information

It is highly unlikely to be true that this was news to any of them. Very deliberately misleading. I don’t feel one iota of sympathy. It is not compulsory to be an elite athlete. They can do anything else they please with their lives. These people are men and they are using their unusual biology to their advantage.

Just spotted this story about Mboma in The Independent
www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/sebastian-coe-christine-mboma-tokyo-2020-b1896611.html
As I stated on another thread, Seb Coe is definitely not down the rabbit hole.

I think these Olympics have really begun to notice and highlight this issue.
These athletes are performing brilliantly but whilst their bodies are naturally producing extremely high levels of testosterone (because they are in possession of male chromosomes and internal testes) the issue is whether it is fair or not for them to compete alongside women who do not.
The fact that this athlete has switched distances and absolutely smashed it would perhaps suggest it's not a level playing field.