Ask the Food Standards Agency experts your questions about use by dates - £200 voucher to be won

[LucyBMumsnet]

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We’ve all been there. You’re rummaging in the fridge for something to eat and right at the back you discover something that you forgot you bought. On closer inspection, the use by date has passed by a few days but you decide to eat it as it looks and smells fine and you’d rather not let it go to waste. However, use by dates are the best indicators of whether food is safe to eat or not, so it’s important to stop and consider if we’re putting ourselves at risk of feeling unwell.

Whether you’d like to know the difference between a best before date and a use by date, how to make safer decisions when deciphering food labelling terms, or whether consequences of ignoring the dates on the pack will affect the quality of your food or how well you feel, the Food Standards Agency (FSA) experts will be online on 24th March to answer your questions.

Here’s what the Food Standards Agency has to say: “Last year, our Covid-19 Consumer Tracker* highlighted that more people are eating food after its ‘use-by’ date, particularly families and those aged over 65 years old. It’s important to understand that different products can undergo different manufacturing processes and this can affect how perishable they are. For example, yoghurts may have a use-by date or best before date, so it is important to always follow the manufacturer’s advice. It is safe for people to eat food after its best before date, but a use-by date is a safety marker, eating food after this date can cause food poisoning.”

Want to know who will be responding to your questions and comments? Find out more about the Food Standards Agency’s experts below:

Narriman Looch - Head of Foodborne Disease Control Branch at the FSA
Narriman Looch is the Head of Animal Feed and Foodborne Disease Control Branch at the FSA. She leads the team responsible for developing policy in response to rises in human cases of foodborne illness, this includes developing guidance and advice for consumers.

Robin May - Chief Scientific Adviser at the FSA
Robin May is the Food Standards Agency’s Chief Scientific Adviser and a Professor of Infectious Disease at the University of Birmingham. As the FSA’s Chief Scientific Adviser, Robin provides expert scientific advice to the UK government and plays a critical role in helping to understand how scientific developments will shape the work of the FSA.

Helen White - Special Advisor, Household Food Waste, WRAP
Helen works with food retailers, manufacturers and brands on engaging with citizens to reduce food waste and is WRAP’s spokesperson on household food waste-related matters. She has played a key role in defining WRAP’s approach to citizen food waste prevention and the development of the Love Food Hate Waste campaign.

All who post a question on this thread will be entered into a prize draw where one MNer will win a £200 voucher for the store of their choice (from a list).

Thanks and good luck!

MNHQ

Insight Terms and Conditions apply

^*www.food.gov.uk/news-alerts/news/covid-19-consumer-tracker-waves-three-and-four-report-published^

@NativityDreaming

When visiting the in-laws I was shocked to learn they cut mould off cheese, eat bread if they found any mouldy slices, or just scoop out the mouldy jam and use the rest of the jar 🤢

It’s not just me, is it? Those things are potentially really unhealthy, aren’t they?

I really don’t want my children eating at their home.

Narriman says: Hi @NativityDreaming. Yes, you are right, food that is obviously rotten or containing mould should not be eaten. This is due to potential risks from the mould. This advice is especially important for people in vulnerable groups, which includes children, elderly people, pregnant women and those who have a weakened immune system.

While it is possible that removing the mould and a significant amount of the surrounding product could remove any unseen toxins that are present, there is no guarantee that doing so would remove them all. It's better to be safe than sorry!

@Mooloolabababy

If there's a long use by date then does that mean that there are more preservatives in the food?

Narriman says: Hi @Mooloolabababy. When manufacturers make their foods, they have to make sure that the food is safe up to midnight on the 'use-by' date. After that, they cannot guarantee the safety of the food, which is why it’s important to stick to the 'use-by' date. Storage instructions must be followed to achieve the marked shelf-life.

A long shelf-life could mean a number of things. The shelf-life of foods depends on a several factors, including the raw ingredients, production processes, pH, salt levels, water activity, packaging and preservatives. All of these are considered when the item is given an appropriate shelf life by the manufacturer.

@wellingtonsandwaffles

Why does out of date taramasalata make me ill but fish out of date by a week I’m fine with?

How long do fresh eggs last?

How reliable is a sniff test?

Why do some foods say do not freeze when if you were making it yourself you would do - Is that to do with the use by date ?

Narriman says: Hi @wellingtonsandwaffles. If you have eaten food past its 'use-by' date before and been ok, unfortunately that doesn't necessarily mean you will as lucky next time. Food can look/smell fine even after the 'use-by' date has passed, but the product will not necessarily be safe to eat. We can’t see/smell the bugs that can cause food poisoning. Consuming food passed its 'use-by' date could leave you vulnerable to food poisoning bugs including Listeria, Salmonella and Campylobacter. We would always recommend following manufacturer’s instructions when storing, using and consuming foods.

Eggs have a shelf-life of 28 days (from date laid to the best before date). The law says that eggs must reach the consumer within 21 days of being laid (allowing sufficient time for safe consumption). Eggs must be labelled with a 'best before' date, there may also be a ‘Sell-By’ or ‘Display Until’ date to ensure they reach the consumer within the 21 days. After 28 days the quality of the egg will deteriorate and if any bacteria are present, they could multiply to high levels and could cause illness. You can use eggs a couple of days after the' best before' date but you should make sure both the white and yolk of the egg are cooked thoroughly.

Food manufacturers take into consideration all the different factors which affects not only the safety of the food but also the quality and taste. If they don’t recommend freezing the item, it will have to do with the quality of the food when it’s defrosted (manufacturers have a responsibility to ensure that food is safe when defrosted). When you are buying something manufactured, you don’t have all the information about the product and so the manufacturer provides the information on how to cook it, store it etc. When you are making dishes at home, you have all the information about the ingredients that are being used, this should help you decide how best to store it.

Helen adds: Hi @wellingtonsandwaffles. Did you know you can freeze eggs? Obviously not in the shells - there would be egg-splosions (!) but try cracking them, blending gently and freezing in an airtight container, labelled with the number you put in there. You can freeze the yolks and the whites separately to give you the flexilibity to use them for different dishes. I regularly freeze egg whites (when just the yolks have been needed) to make meringue later, mmm! Defrost in the fridge before use.

@digginthedancingqueen

Is it safe to trust your nose re most things? If it smells ok it will probably be ok still?

Narriman says: Hi @digginthedancingqueen. This is a popular question! The ‘sniff test’ should not be used with foods that have a 'use-by' date on them. ‘Use-by’ dates are about safety - they are used on foods which are highly perishable and likely to pose a danger after the 'use-by' date, such as fresh and processed meats, salads and dairy products. Foods should not be eaten after the ‘use-by’ date, even when stored correctly. That is because harmful bacteria are likely to grow in the food after the ‘use-by’ date. Even if the food looks and smells OK, it may be unsafe since harmful bacteria do not affect the smell or taste of foods.

Helen adds: So @digginthedancinqueen, what can you do if it’s getting close to the 'use-by' date to stop your food from ending up as waste? Well, you can press pause and freeze it. And you can freeze right up to the 'use-by' date, you don’t need to worry about ‘freezing on day of purchase’. If you see that on-pack, it’s the best thing to do, but not essential. Alternatively, you could cook it before the 'use-by' date. Cool and put in the fridge within two hours. Use up or freeze within two days. Hope that helps!

@SylvanianFrenemies

Does how you cook things have any impact upon safety after use by date? I.e. if you cook really thoroughly, does that offset any risk?

Robin says: Hi @SylvanianFrenemies. This is another really common question. We do not recommend using any food past its 'use-by' date. 'Use-by' dates are about safety - they are used on foods which are highly perishable and likely to pose a danger after the 'use-by' date, such as fresh and processed meats, salads and dairy products. Foods should not be eaten after the 'use-by' date, even if they have been stored correctly and are then cooked. That is because harmful bacteria are likely to grow in the food after the 'use-by' date and toxins produced by these bacteria are not always destroyed by cooking. Even if the food looks and smells OK it may be unsafe, since harmful bacteria do not affect the smell or taste of foods.

When manufacturers make their foods, they have to make sure that the food is safe up to midnight on the 'use-by' day. After that, they cannot guarantee the safety of the food, which is why it’s important to stick to the 'use-by' date.

@picklemewalnuts

Has there been any progress on a smart labelling system that responds to actual storage conditions or actual food quality? That would be more efficient than a somewhat arbitrary 'x days after packaging' system.

Narriman says: Hi @picklemewalnuts. This is an interesting area! There have been a few pilots into various versions of smart packaging which indicate when food has spoiled, but at present it is still too expensive and needs further refining before it can be put into use on a large scale.

@StickChildNumberTwo

Does every food that's sold have to have a use by date by law? I can't understand why they're on things like tinned veg or dried pasta which don't ever seem to go off.

Robin says: Hi @StickChildNumberTwo. Date marking can seem confusing, can’t it? There are two different types of dates on food products – the 'use-by' date and the 'best before' date. It is important to know the difference.

'Use-by' - is about safety. Food can be eaten until the 'use-by' date but should not be eaten after as they are used on food that go off quickly, such as raw meat or ready-to-eat salads. That is because harmful bacteria are likely to grow in the food after the ‘use by’ date, even if the food looks and smells OK.

Other foods, which do not go off quickly, including the types of products you are referring too - tinned vegetables or dried pasta, do not have a 'use-by' date. These foods show a 'best before' date, sometimes shown as BBE (best before end). The 'best before' date is about food quality, not safety. The food will be safe to eat after this date but may not be at its best. Its flavour and texture might not be as good.

Some foods don’t have to have any date marks on them. This include foods which are not prepacked (e.g. loose fruits or meats bought at a deli/butchers), and foods which are prepacked for direct sale (packed on the premise they are sold from).

A list of pre-packed foods do not require date marking are:

• Fresh fruit and vegetables (unless they are peeled or cut into pieces or are sprouted seeds)
• Any alcoholic drink with a strength of over 10% ABV
• Sweet pastries, cakes and bread goods which are intended to be eaten within 24 hours of preparation
• Solid sugar
• Vinegar and cooking salt
• Chewing gum and certain sugar sweets and confectionary

@CatRatSplat

Why does the use of use by and best before appear inconsistent? I see some items in the same department eg pasta with a mixture of these.

Narriman says: Hi @CatRatSplat. That's a good question, I get asked this a lot. Dates on very similar products appear differently because they may contain different ingredients, are processed or packaged differently or need different storage to remain safe for different periods of time.

For example, 'use-by' dates could be required for fresh pasta containing egg or pasta filled with cheese or meat. These are foods which are likely to be a danger to human health after the 'use-by' date, even when stored correctly.

On the other hand, dried pasta could have a 'best before' date, sometimes shown as BBE (best before end). The food will be safe to eat after this date but may not be at its best. Its flavour and texture might not be as good.

I always thought it was okay to put something in the freezer, and defrost and cook even though the Use By date has since passed? Is that not the case? Apologies is this has already been asked. I put a lot of Best Before items in the freezer but I'm sure a couple of times I may have done this with Use By dated products too.

@Pulledamonica

How strictly do we have to adhere to the "once opened use within..." thing? E.g. Bagged salad has 24 hours which seems like madness - we always end up wasting some which I hate. I have friends who make salad lunches with non-bagged ingredients (e.g. Head of iceberg lettuce) on a Monday for the whole week and don't get ill - what's the difference?

Narriman says: Hi @Pulledamonica. Another good question. The shelf-life of foods (like bagged salad) is dependent on a number of factors, including the raw ingredients being used, production processes, pH, salt levels, water activity, packaging and preservatives. When manufacturers make their food products, they have to make sure that the food is safe to eat and do lots of testing to make sure that ‘open pack’ instructions are suitable for the item.

Bagged salads are often packed in a protective atmosphere – opening the bag releases the gases which have been keeping the salad fresh. This is taken into account by the manufacturer/packer in their assessment of ‘open-pack’ shelf life.

Helen adds: Fresh vegetables and salad are the most wasted type of food in the UK. So for all of us who have ended up wasting bagged salad, because we ran out of time, here's my advice. Try buying a smaller pack (if there is one available) or using up what's left on a sandwich or in a salad for lunch the next day. Have you ever made a salad bag 'pesto'? It's a great - and quick - way to use up leftover leaves. Just treat them the same as you would for a basil or rocket pesto and enjoy with pasta for lunch or dinner. You could try buying whole lettuce, like the head of iceberg your friend is using. Most uncut fresh produce (i.e. it's not been prepared) will carry a 'best before' date or even no date at all, so you'll have more time to use it than a prepared salad with a 'use-by' date and a short open life (use within X days)! Hope these ideas help!

@mrurddhasabitpart

I'm another that sets almost no store by use by dates. Meat from the butcher has none, but you know the package date and sometimes even the slaughter to table date. Are there are figures to show that prior to use by dates we were all suffering food poisoning regularly? Figures that don't also correspond to domestic fridges and basic food hygiene being introduced to homes (which I personally feel must have had a far far greater impact upon public general health than arbitrary dates) What is the food standards agency's take upon vacuum sealing? Lakeland's vac packer advertising states up to 3x fresher / longer- which my experience confirms, but should they be able to advertise that if it means people are then eating outside of use bys?

Narriman says: Hi @mrurddhasabitpart. Use-by' dates are about safety - they are used on foods which are highly perishable and likely to pose a danger to human health, such as fresh and processed meats, salads and dairy products. Foods should not be eaten after the 'use-by' date, even when stored correctly. That is because harmful bacteria are likely to grow in the food after the 'use-by' date. Even if the food looks and smells OK, harmful bacteria do not affect the smell or taste of foods.

Food businesses are not required to put a 'use-by' date on foods that are packed on the premises at the consumer’s request. This could include butchers selling cuts of meat, and where the assumption is that the meat is going to be consumed the next day at the latest. However, mandatory food information must be available and easily accessible for all foods. Food retailers should make sure that consumers are aware of how long the food will be safe and how it is properly stored, even if the information is not required to be on the packaging. Meat products should be stored in a fridge, at 5°C or below, on a shelf below other food.

Although food poisoning statistics are collated, there is no data available on foodborne illness specifically attributed to consuming food past the 'use-by' date since people very rarely report food poisoning incidents that they attribute to their own behaviour. Some types of food poisoning are quite rare but can be very serious, especially in people who are vulnerable to infection (e.g. Listeria)

We do not recommend using food past its 'use-by' date, regardless of whether it has been vacuum-sealed or not, unless it has been frozen beforehand. While different methods of storage might extend the freshness of food with a 'best before' date, this is not applicable to food with a 'use-by' date. Relying on ‘home-packing’ approaches to extend this date could put you and your family at risk of food poisoning.

@Sweetpea1532

I was horrified when visiting my mum for a holiday and discovered she'd been eating refrigeratored food that had a 'best by ' date from Nov 2020 and it was February 2021. She thought that the best by date was arbitrary ...that the food should be OK to eat..just not at its 'best'.. Also, is a "best by" date the same as a "use by " date ? Have many days after opening a packet of deli meat should it be consumed even if the use by date is weeks away? Please advise! Thank you for your time.

Narriman says: Hi *@Sweetpea1532*. If the food products your mum is eating has a 'best before' date, they should be fine to eat (so long as there is no visible signs of mould and she is following the manufactures storage instructions) as that date relates to quality and not safety. Food can be eaten after the 'best before' date, but it might lose its flavour and change texture.

However, 'use-by' dates are very different. 'Use-by' dates are used on foods that go off quickly, such as smoked fish, meat products and ready-prepared salads. It is important not to use any food or drink after the end of the 'use-b'y date on the label, even if it looks and smells fine. This is because using it after this date could put consumer health at risk. For the 'use-by' date to be a valid guide, you must follow carefully storage instructions such as 'keep in a refrigerator'. If you don't follow these instructions, the food will spoil more quickly, and you may risk food poisoning.

With deli meat packs (always marked with a 'use-by' date), once you open the packet, you should also follow the manufacturers ‘open-pack’ instructions and not eat the food after that time has passed.

Helen adds: Hi @Sweetpea1532. Did you know you can freeze deli meats? You could place slices between greaseproof paper and wrap tightly, but the best way is probably to chop and freeze in an airtight container, for topping pizza and adding to pasta dishes. Defrost in the fridge before use. WRAP estimates that 2.2 million slices of ham are wasted every day in the UK so it's worth trying, right?

@Montydoo

Is it safe to freeze meat which is at is use by date, and if so - how should I defrost safely - I love to buy from the reduced section to save the pennies

Narriman says: Hi @Montydoo. A freezer acts as a pause button - food in a freezer won't deteriorate and most bacteria cannot grow in it. You can freeze food right up to the 'use-by' date. Meat can be frozen, even on its 'use-by' date and defrosted and cooked later.

The cold temperatures of a domestic freezer (-18°C) delay chemical reactions within foods and put any bacteria that may be present on pause. The bacteria are still alive, but they stop growing or producing toxins, in effect pausing reactions.

The important thing to remember is that because the bacteria haven't been killed, they may be revived as the food defrosts. Make sure the food never enters the Danger Zone (most harmful bacteria will grow at temperatures above 8°C and below 63°C – this is known as the ‘Danger Zone’ for microbial growth), because the bacteria may grow and make you ill. This is why you should defrost food within a fridge.

It is also the reason why we advise foods can't be refrozen if they are accidentally defrosted, unless they are first cooked. If the food has been defrosted it must be cooked before being eaten to be safe. Once defrosted, foods should be consumed within 24 hours.

Don't defrost food at room temperature. Ideally, food should be defrosted fully in the fridge. If this isn't possible, use a microwave on the defrost setting directly before cooking. Check the guidance on food packaging and allow enough time for your food to defrost properly.

By defrosting in the fridge, your food should never enter the ‘Danger Zone’. Your fridge should be 5°C or below, as some bacteria can grow at lower temperatures than 8°C.

@YesIDoLoveCrisps

Please can you settle an ongoing debate between my husband and I. I say if food goes into the freezer it’s ok for a very long time. He goes into the freezer and throws away food randomly. It’s so wasteful. What’s the correct rule for frozen food please?

Narriman says: Hi @YesIDoLoveCrisps. Frozen foods are marked with 'best before' date. 'Best before' dates are about quality; the food will be safe to eat after this date but may not be at its best. Its flavour and texture might not be as good.

A freezer acts as a pause button - food in a freezer won't deteriorate and most bacteria cannot grow in it. You can freeze food right up to the 'use-by' date. Leftovers and homemade goods should be frozen as soon as possible and the date marked on them for good practice. Make sure any warm dishes are cooled before putting them in your freezer.

All frozen food can suffer from ‘freezer burn’ if not correctly packaged and/or if frozen for a long time, so may not taste as good when defrosted and prepared. Frozen foods are usually labelled with 'Best Before End' (BBE), and manufacturers give a guide on the packet for how long the food can be stored frozen with a star rating for optimal quality. They have done lots of testing to make sure that the defrosted food will take at its best so that you will enjoy it.

Thank you all for your questions. We hope that our answers have taught you something new about use by dates and food safety. If you have additional questions or comments, feel free to post them on this thread.

• Helen, Narriman and Robin

@FSAEpertPanel

You've all taught me so much about food storage....that estimate on ham slices wasted in the UK is mind-boggling..I'm sure it's the same if not higher here in the US.
Looking forward to sharing this info with my mum...she'll be thrilled to know she was right as the grandkids love to tease her about expiry or best by dates...
I plan to share your info with my whole family. Thank you!

I hope I can squeeze in one last question as I can't remember the rules this web chat.

Is it safe to store eggs at room temperature? The supermarkets in the US do this sometimes with no warning attached ...especially around Easter time...I suppose because they assume consumers are going to use the eggs for decoration or for an Easter egg hunt for the children...also, how long are hard boiled eggs safe to eat it refrigerated once they are cooled?
One last question..is it safe to store butter at room temperature? We have done this for 30 years, and have never gotten food poisoning, but I realise that we may have just been fortunate to not keel over from doing this.
Thank you so very much..you all are such a wealth of information that needs to be taught in schools to every student

Thank you so much for your answers FSA panel, such useful and important information.

When things get mouldy, my mum sometimes gives them to the pigeons as she hates wasting food. Is it safe for them to eat?

Why is it that some products just have a best before date?

I had some low carb tortillas and it was past it's use by date (I'm sure it was use by and not best before). A couple of months later there was still no sign of mould and after eating it, it caused no reactions and tasted just the same. Should I have still left it and not eaten it?

Just how effective is the “sniff test”?

I’ve always presumed if it smells ok (and meat hasn’t gone green!) then it’s ok, but have my family and I just been lucky?

Is there a set time food can be frozen for before tasting bad when defrosted?

If meat has a use by date of today, iOS it safe to cook it today and eat heated up leftovers tomorrow?

Is it true that tinned foods are 'non-perishable?'