Q&A about children's mental health issues with Natasha Devon and Lynn Crilly.

[RachelMumsnet]

To mark Children's Mental Health week, we’re running a Q&A with Natasha Devon an Lynn Crilly, authors of Fundamentals, a new book which offers honest and practical advice to parents and teachers who are struggling to cope with common mental health issues in children, such as body image insecurity, self-harm, eating disorders and anxiety. The book also includes advice on bullying, technology and social media, sexuality and its link to self-esteem and the correct way to communicate about mental health.

Post your questions to Natasha and Lynn before midday on Friday 27 February and we’ll post up their answers on 6th March.

Please note: In certain situations Natasha and Lynn may not be able to give specific advice without actually seeing the person or knowing more about the circumstances. If this is the case they will suggest the best places to go to get more advice or assistance.

About Lynn Crilly and Natasha Devon
Lynn Crilly is a Counsellor, Mother and Author. Through using her unique and very effective form of counselling she has established herself as one of the country’s leading private therapists. She wrote her first book Hope with Eating Disorders in 2012, which was widely praised for its down-to-earth and non-judgmental advice to parents and carers. Lynn is a trustee for the charity ‘Men Get Eating Disorders Too’ ’.

Natasha Devon is a journalist, TV pundit and founder of The Self Esteem Team, who have taught more than 40,000 teenagers in schools, colleges and universities throughout Britain. She works alongside the All Parties Parliamentary Group on Body Image and campaigns for good body image and mental health practice in schools and in the media.
The Self-Esteem Team were given an award at the House of Commons in 2014 in recognition of their services to education. Natasha has been named a Mental Health Association ‘Hero’, one of Ernst & Young’s Top 50 Social Entrepreneurs and Cosmopolitan Magazine’s Ultimate Woman of the Year.

What Children's Mental Health Week means for many children and young people is meaningless;

Child poverty is the highest ever recorded. Poverty is the major cause of mental illness in people of all ages.

There is currently a 40% increase in youngsters self harming because of poverty since David Cameron came to power. Schools are struggling with this not least because local authority support has been lost.

£50 million + cut from children's mental health services.

Over £2 billion cut from youth services. Youth clubs have been closed.

Welfare cuts mean more children are being taken into care. Children in care are at increased risk of mental illness and self harm. Privatisation looms for many vulnerable children as social service provision will be put out to tender and safeguard checks dropped.

So what does this designated week mean in the light to children being plunged further into poverty and mental illness?

Once a problem has been identified, how long a wait is benign and when does that tip over into exacerbating the condition?

Which anti-depressants are considered the most safe for teenagers? Obviously, it would be best to avoid their use altogether if possible but if not, which have the fewest side-effects? I'm especially worried about increased suicidal thoughts and behaviour. My 14 year old is depressed and I think anti-ds may be needed. Thanks very much.

My nephew is 8 and has become very worried about dying. He is constantly asking things like "will I die from touching the TV?" or "will I die because I guessed that something would happen and it did?". His family are very religious so he is also asking me (he doesn't ask his parents who would be deeply disturbed by it) things like "I accidentally said 'God kill me young'. Will I die from that?" It started in early January and I'm at a loss.

Forgot to say, what advice do you have? If there is a religious element, is it best to get help via a church?

The book looks like an interesting read. I'd like to know more about eating disorders in young people and how to encourage my boys to have a healthy relationship with food and their bodies.

I think I need reassurance that I'm doing the right thing for my son. If I suspect something is troubling him and making him anxious, but he won't open up and talk to me or my husband what can we do?

Do we accept that he's OK whilst reassuring him we're here to listen or talk if he wants? Do we try to get him to spend time with an adult friend so he can talk to someone who's not in our family?

While I would not wish to denigrate the good work of Natasha Devon and Lynn Crilly I would have thought if Mumsnet wanted to host a Q&A on child mental health it would be better to do so with actual child mental health practitioner, such as a qualified child psychologist, rather than someone whose website appears very vague about whether they are actually a registered and accredited counsellor, and someone else who appears to have had no training or qualifications in child mental health at all.
You appear to have lifted the phrase "one of the country’s leading private therapists" directly from Lynn Crilly's own website.

Or is this thread more a plug for their book? Mumsnet can you tell us whether this is a sponsored thread? The title bar above contains the phrase "If you want to know about Q&A opportunities, please mail [email protected].". This suggests to me that individuals can approach MN and request to host Q&A discussions? Is that correct? If so is there a financial transaction for this? How does MN ensure that 'experts' are indeed experts?

Again, I am not wishing to denigrate any good work done by Lynn Crilly and Natasha Devon. It is more the structure of this thread that I call into doubt, and a seeming lack of transparency by MN.

It is really, really good that child mental health is being debated and discussed. I work in the field and am passionate about it. But if 'experts' are being provided by MN to hand out advice to concerned parents then MN needs to be scrupulous in ensuring that robust, evidence based advice is available and be transparent about 'sponsorship' of threads.

Any clarification from MN on the above points would be welcome.

Very good point Selks I agree with you but I didn't know how to broach the subject.

I did question how a 'journalist and tv pundit' is really qualified to answer questions about MH in young people.

i agree with the two previous posters that careful parameters are needed here.

it sounds to me that the authors of this book are working more in the sphere of health promotion type work, rather than being in a position to answer more detailed questions about child and adolescent psychiatry for those already experiencing mental health problems. I hope MNHQ are thinking carefully about how this is managed.

Agree with aforegoing totally. Trying to get help for a child with mental health issues is an impossibility - even when the child has been referred twice by doctor and by the school (who have no counselling service) and parents have begged Child Mental Heath Service for help with child suffering severe issues including self harming (age 8) - all to no avail as that service has raised the threashhold and now only see 'extreme cases' - raises the question what on earth will happen to the hundreds of children unable to get any help. Doctors and schools only refer to Child Mental Health service - who can not offer any help whatsoever - I worry for the future of these poor children - and indeed society who is NOT servng them

As we sow, so shall we reap

With all due respect lyne crilly seems to have all her qualifications from open college which appear to be online learning courses bought on the internet. So not supervised practice as recognised by the British Association for Counselling and psychotherapy. In fact BACP explicitly advise that online courses do not equate to a qualification to practise.

I do not mean to do a character assassination on these women who are obviously deeply involved and concerned about these issues...

BUT

The boards are full of posters with significant concerns for some very troubled children and young people. A q and a on mental health is bound to attract difficult questions about individual clinical cases. Regardless of whether anyone can or should answer such questions on the internet, it seems to me that the 2 posters are not qualified to give a professional opinion and this should be made clear from the outset. The parameters of this discussion need to be clear.

I can't imagine a similar scenario would be allowed regarding a physical health problem, underlining the lack of weight we give to mental health (and children's mental health least of all).

Good point munchkin. We would expect them to be a qualified medical professional so the same should apply to mental health advice.

The person who suggested a qualified child psychologist - but I posted on a similar thread, this week, (sorry can't link, am on phone) re Dr Tanya Byron (and she IS qualified) and she seemed, or appeared, to be so out of touch re the state of available care for children's mh issues, that it was truly frightening and I lost quite a bit of respect for Dr Tanya.

Is there any research to show whether single sex education or mixed schools have any impact on the likelihood of girls self harming of suffer mental health issues?

I would like to quote the introduction for this thread:

"to mark Children's Mental Health Week, we're running a Q&A with Natasha Devon and Lynn Crilly, authors of Fundamentals, a new book which offers honest and practical advice to parents and teachers who are struggling to cope with common mental health issues in children, such as body image insecurity, self-harm, eating disorders and anxiety. The book also includes advice on bullying, technology and social media, sexuality and its link to self-esteem and the correct way to communicate about mental health."

At no point have either Natasha Devon, or Lynn Crilly claimed on here to be medical experts, qualified to answer specific medical questions. They offer practical advice for parents, carers and teenagers. They will not answer specific medical questions, that was not the idea of this thread!! This means they will point you in the right direction in the minefield that is GPs, CAMHS, Psychiatrists and help guide you to the right medical experts.

Reading through the above comments, I am both surprised and disappointed as to how people react to what I am sure was meant to be a positive Q&A thread on a subject which we all feel strongly about.

I have been lucky enough to meet both the above ladies, who in my humble opinion, are both truly motivating, inspirational people and are passionate about helping our teenagers through difficult years. Natasha works tirelessly with her team "The Self Esteem Team" all over the country talking to thousands of teenagers promoting the importance being themselves and liking who they are, working in conjunction with YoungMinds and Body Gossip.

As a mum of a teenage girl, whose daughter has suffered dreadfully with anorexia, low self esteem, OCD and depression, she was referred to an absolutely atrocious local CAMHS team (with all the appropriate letters after their name!), twice an inpatient at a specialist eating disorders unit, I would consider myself to be reasonably qualified myself to comment on different services available to our children!

I read almost every book on the shelves, to do my best by our beautiful daughter and to empower myself with knowledge to know my rights to fight for her. One of the many books I read was Lynn Crilly's Hope with Eating Disorders. It was only then that I realised that the help that was being offered to my daughter by our local services did not work for her and I had a right to question her treatment!!! I contacted Lynn and she has turned her life around. In a very short space of time too! We were never told as a family that our daughter could make a full recovery from anorexia, until we met Lynn Crilly, who with her unique approach which really cares about her patients and their families, did we ever hope for just that and I can honestly say now - recovery is possible!

So for all you critics above, talking your shallow minded talk, before you question peoples inability to help, lets look at what this thread was intended for - NOT specific medical diagnosis, it was for two authors to offer support and guidance on an incredibly sensitive subject matter that is Children's Mental Health!

I'm sorry it's entitled 'ask the experts' 'q and a' then goes on to list a pile of topics they may have advice about as written in their book.

I think this sets the scene for specific questions about actual children rather than the more generic 'single or mixed sex school etc.'

Exactly. I'm sure they have knowledge in the way lots of us do, having been directly involved in the system now for many years. I'm also undergoing a psychology degree, but I am no expert and would not be doing q&a to plug a book

My son was diagnosed with psychosis, possibly schizophrenia, aged 19. For years we knew there was something wrong but were without any real clues as to what the problem might be. Once he became more conspicuously ill we were able, retrospectively, to view those years as the prodrome (the preliminary "warm-up period") of his illness.

I was struck by how poor my understanding was of this common illness, and how far off most parents' radar it is when they feel concerns for their children. It is such a common illness. One in a hundred people will develop schizophrenia, and more will become psychotic for other reasons. In males the illness tends to strike around the age of 19 or 20, with a possible build-up over a few preceding years. Just as parents of young children tend to have some understanding of autism and what signs ought to raise concerns on that front, parents of teenagers ought to have a good awareness of psychosis.

It would be massively useful if there was a high-profile publicity drive on this issue. Here is the key thing that needs to be taught: What we think of as the classic signs of psychosis (being conspicuously out of touch with reality, voicing weird ideas, noticably seeing or hearing things that aren't there) are by no means the whole of the illness and are fairly unlikely at first to be a visible, or highly visible, part of the young person's difficulty.

Natasha Devon seems in a good position to ask/urge influential people in relation to achieving better public understanding of psychosis so I guess my question is: What do you think could be done to this end? How can we make parents "psychosis literate"?

Here are some early signs of schizophrenia and other psychosis that parents need to have a better awareness of

*Becoming isolated and withdrawn

*Flat, unemotional

*Irritability

*Very inflexible thinking, especially when under emotional pressure

*Difficulty understanding other people's motives and state of mind, consequently experiencing people as antagonistic, hostile

*Guarded, unforthcoming

*Inability to get any pleasure from anything

*Profound lack of motivation

*Clumsy motor skills and unusual gait (this might be schizophrenia only, I think)

The "negative symptoms" the things that the person can't do (socialise, initiate goal-directed behaviour, experience emotion, reason effectively about personal situations, even if highly intelligent) are often much much more conspicuous in the early stages of psychosis than those "positive symptoms" delusions and hallucinations that we all associate with psychosis. I wish this could become part of the background general knowledge that parents operate with.

Just for reassurance, lots of those signs above can overlap with normal teen behaviour. There is no need to see them as signs of illness in themselves, unless very extreme. But if you already know that there is something wrong, they can guide your thoughts about what that something might be.

Sorry for epic post. I want to save other parents from the years of futile bafflement that I had.

Thanks for your feedback. We did consider getting a child psychologist for the Q&A but decided that it may lead to false expectation as it's often very difficult for them to give feedback to specific situations without lengthy consultation. In the end we felt it would be useful to offer a Q&A that was linked to mental health and offer guidance on where to get help and support and some specialist knowledge on specific mental health issues in children rather than specific medical advice.

When we were sent information about their book Fundamentals, we asked Liz and Natasha to take part in the Q&A as we thought they could offer advice on a difficult subject in the same way that other mumsnetters do, but also share their very niche experience in these fields. The book has really useful practical advice and we thought Liz and Natasha's tone was frank and straight-talking and we're confident that they will be able to offer some great advice in the Q&A. Although the Q&A obviously offers the opportunity to promote the book, this isn't a commercial venture and hasn't been paid for.

If you think a Q&A or webchat with a medical professional about mental health issues in children would be useful then do let us know and we'll reconsider.

(I agree with other posters that the parameters of the Q&A have been poorly drawn, and that the puff piece at the top is distasteful on an "expert" Q&A as opposed to a sponsored one. Hate the blending of genuine conversation and promo.)

Hi, I think you are quite right to be careful about getting into giving specific advice but unfortunately the blurb reads like specific advice can be sought here. The disclaimer that in ' some cases' this would be inappropriate reads as if in other cases this would be fine.

Coupled with this you have 2 experts who are not in a position to give clinical advice. This should be made completely clear and that the thread is for a discussion of general issues.

I also think it is naive to have selected your expert on the basis of a book posted to you and to unquestionably repeat their own self promotional blurb as their credentials.

There are lots of amazing folk doing work in this area. Maybe better to approach mind or the British psychological society to get a true expert who could manage a potentially tricky webchat.

I also think children's mental health is a bit broad. We wouldn't have one on children's physical health would we? The conversation could do with a steer so a chat about one area such as self esteem, bullying, promoting confidence in primary age kids, eating disorders, depression etc.

This is such an important area I think it's important to get it right. I appreciate mumsnet are not experts in this field but given the high profile of the site I think it pays to seek a bit if advice and be thoughtful.

RachelMN, yes please. what about Dr Tanya Byron, given the other thread about her comments re childrens mental heath week.

Totally agree with Munchkinmaster's post, above.