DS14 permanently excluded for drugs

[winterrabbit]

DS is 14 (year 10, diagnosed with ADHD) and was excluded for 5 day last week for bringing edibles into school and eating them with another friend. We've been told the exclusion will be permanent but the school is trying to arrange a managed move to avoid this. Although I've been in email contact with the Head of Year 10 all week, I haven't received any paperwork from the school nor had contact with the headteacher. (it's now been over 5 days since DS has been excluded). Obviously I'm worried sick and trying to work out next steps. The Head of Year 10 said that they'll give it another week to find a managed move before they'll permanently exclude him. I have no idea what the likelihood of finding a school that we're happy with is so can't work out if that is likely to be an option. Obviously this is disastrous for DS as he had just started his GCSE courses, however, this is the latest in a long line of things he has done although nothing related to drugs although he has had several 2 day exclusions for vaping, another for truancy and others for not following instructions. The school have tried to support him and were in the process of submitting an EHCP for him to get extra funding which they'll now submit next week. I'm not hopeful here but I wondered if there was point in trying to ask the head for another chance (I actually already asked the Head of Year 10 this and she said no) or even appealing the decision, but I can't see how we'd be successful given that drugs were involved. DS just stands to lose so much as he could end up either in a PRU or a much worse school where he'll probably continue on a downward spiral, not to mention all the stress and alienation that goes with a permanent exclusion. He knows he has done wrong but obviously it's too late now. There is also the status of the edibles that he brought into school. I've tried to get him to tell me where he got them and claims he and a friend found them in a hedge. The school does not seem to have retained the packaging so I am not sure how they can definitely establish they are edibles of the illegal variety although DS told me that he and his friend felt "high" so it sounds like they work. I know I am clutching at straws but wanted to ask for constructive thoughts and advice. Anyone looking to have a dig or make mean comments, please DON'T!

I was wondering if there was anything else on offer as you seemed to suggest that there is loads of help and resource for kids in this situation when I am actually finding the opposite.

There is - there will be NHS support, LA support, social care support, youth justice support, charity support. Impossible to tell you more than that as I don’t know where you live. You need to Google, approach services yourself, advocate for DS and follow advice given to you. There would be more support if someone had bothered to apply for an EHCNA at some point in the last few years.

Also, the challenging behaviour itself is not the basis on which they can withhold the place - it's the fact that they lots of other kids with challenging behaviour and taking one more would be detrimental.

Well no, it’s the combination of the challenging behaviour and the existing pupils and the prejudice. If it was just the existing pupils and incompatibility schools would be able to refuse all applications, which they can’t, only some with challenging behaviour. This applies to in year applications. The bar is high, but given DS’s long list of exclusions, drug use, vaping and potentially 2 PEX you are naive to think schools won’t look to use this clause where possible.

It’s two permanent exclusions with the last one within 2 years for admissions as part of the normal admissions round or during the normal year of entry. This wouldn’t apply to DS anyway as it isn’t a normal entry year.

Op - you seem to be in a fairly decent financial position? I don’t know your situation but if it was at all possible…. I would move in to rented accommodation in the arse end of no where. Just me and him. And leave partner and two other children (presuming not young young children / babies). 6month tenancy. I’d get a private tutor for him. I’d WFH (I can, not sure about you)/

basically he needs a reset. Drastic action. Because current situation is carnage and heading downhill sharp. He’s on a path to jail. And that’s best case scenario to be honest.

do not fight the school. You are simply delaying the inevitable.

And during the 6 months, you are sorting another school for him so you can move back home and he can rejoin the system.

By moving out of the LA and then back the OP would delay an EHCP, which DS desperately needs in order to receive the correct support and maybe a specialist setting. If OP delays the EHCP process and she has to appeal more than once, as many parents do, the EHCP won’t be finalised before the end of Y11. This means there is the chance of DS becoming NEET because whilst the LA currently has a statutory duty to provide an education whilst out of school there’s no such duty post 16, an EHCP is the only way.

What is a NEET? Well, the EHCP has been submitted. Not sure what next steps are. We still having heard anything from his current school other than they haven't managed to find a managed move (they've asked 4 schools, all of whom say they've taken enough kids from this school in the last year). I've applied to 2 other schools near us who have places and heard nothing back. We are officially pariahs.

A NEET is a young person Not in Education, Employment or Training.

The LA have 6 weeks to inform you whether they will assess or not.

You need to get tougher with the school. If DS isn’t excluded he should be in school. If the school don’t want him there they need to formally exclude so that DS receives alternative provision. If you aren’t getting anywhere with school email the LA’s Director of Children’s Services, as it is the LA who are ultimately responsible for ensuring CSA pupils receive a suitable, full time education.

What is your son doing during the day atm?

Honestly Op. I'm not sure challenging an hoping for a loophole is the way to go as a) the bar ja set pretty lie for drug dealing and b if you managed to win I think you'd find the his teachers good relationship would disappear and the school would simply wait for the next time and then exclude him again.
In your circumstances I'd give him a fresh start and move him to at least boarding school wit loads of sport and hope it can help him changes his ways .

From what your posted I'd be very afraid that he will be destined for much worse than school exclusion.
I do feel for you though. It must be awful to watch him spiral .

He's going into school for 2 hours (not into the classroom but into isolation to do work) and then usually has a tutor in the afternoon or the gym. Seeing the odd friend. The one positive is that he does seem be very regretful and wants to change. He is focusing well with his tutors, cooked his brother dinner yesterday and even tidied his room which he has literally never done.

Yes, I have considered that Crazy and for that reason I won't challenge it but I may well raise a complaint about how they have handled the exclusion as it'll be two weeks on Friday and we're received nothing formal, no paperwork and very little about the managed move. I've been chasing and chasing and was told that if they can find a school to take him by Friday then they'll permanently exclude. What is really frustrating is that I called out LA for help and they agreed to call around a few schools, one of whom said they would consider taking DS on a managed move and asked the HT of DS's current school to call them. That was on Weds afternoon so I immediately told DS's school (I am talking to the head of his year) and she passed the message on but the HT still hasn't called them. The school in question is really good and would give DS a fresh start. I honestly don't know what to do. I know managed moves are discretionary but it just seems like the HT couldn't care less and hasn't made any effort to find a school. Nothing has happened in 2 weeks. I am starting to wonder if this was a ploy to try to get us to remove DS so that they don't have to PE although not sure why.

I am trying to figure out next steps. If we don't hear from the HT tomorrow with positive news about a move then I think need to decide whether to withdraw DS or allow the school to PE him on Friday. My instinct at the moment is to withdraw and home-school until we find him a place at a new school. If he is formally permanently excluded then he will have to go to a PRU and I am told the PRUs near here and full of very troubled kids. I know DS needs to change but I don't think throwing him in a PRU with a load of other troubled kids is going to help. Any advice appreciated.

Would you wait until he is formally excluded or withdraw in advance to avoid a PRU and a PE on this record. The only advantage to a PE, it seems, is that they can access a school place via the Fair Access Protocol, or whatever it's called, although from what I can tell so can kids who have SEN but no EHCP as well as kids without a school place. So worst case hopefully we find a school place that way. He is also on the list for 2 other schools who have places but are taking their time telling us whether or not they'll make an offer. I bet at least one of them will try to say no. None of this addresses the underlying issues and drugs etc but my immediate priority is to sort schooling as this could take ages. He is also seeing a mentor and he being very open with him about his troubles. I believe there is hope.

Wow!!

obviously this is working for him. Very tightly controlled. 1-2-1 at school for a short period. Is continuing to go out late with friends?

I would never wait for a permanent exclusion. Why? His record, his self confidence plus as his parent - I want to take matters in to my own hands.

what is working for your son is 1-2-1, much shorter hours, much much restricted freedom and daily exercise.
personally - I would get a private tutor for next two years. For 3/4 hours a day. And every day he goes to the gym.

No, I wouldn’t withdraw. DS needs help and support otherwise nothing is going to change. That help and support is more likely to be given if you have evidence of unmet needs. A PEx provides that evidence. This becomes especially important if you need to appeal the EHCP at any point. By deregistering and EHE the LA will say you are making suitable alternative arrangements thereby relieving them of their duties. EHE will mean DS doesn’t receive the support he so clearly needs.

Deregistering to avoid a PEx because you think that will stop schools offering a place is misguided. As I explained in a pp, permanent exclusions only play a role in admissions during the normal admissions round and in the normal year of entry. That doesn’t apply here.

For in year admission schools can refuse on the grounds of challenging behaviour if they believe the pupil may display challenging behaviour and they have a high proportion of pupils with challenging behaviour/previous permanent exclusions compared to other local schools and they believe admitting another pupil with challenging behaviour would prejudice the provision of efficient education or use of resources.

You don’t need to pay for tutors, the LA have a statutory duty to provide alternative arrangements if DS can’t attend school full time. Although…

my immediate priority is to sort schooling as this could take ages.

If this is your aim you are focusing on the wrong thing. If DS is not excluded he should be in school full time, if your immediate priority is sorting schooling you should be challenging the illegal exclusion.

I am not sure being in a PRU will get him the help he needs. From what I am reading the PRUs near us as a basically a recruitment grounds for gangs. Given his current issues, I think it would be a huge mistake to expose him to that.

So, we are 3 weeks on and still nothing in writing and no PE from the school. I contacted our LA for assistance and she kindly called a few schools to see if they would take him on a MM. Amazingly, one school (which is an amazing school 1.8 miles away although the catchment is 0.3) said they would be open to a discussion and would the HT of DS's school call them about it. That was last Tuesday and, despite chasing, the HT only emailed them on Friday, at which point the school had closed for 2 weeks, so more delay and limbo. I just don't feel like the HT is making an effort to find DS a managed move. Not sure whether to complain at this point or try to keep him on side given that MMs are discretionary, I believe. What he doesn't seem to realise is that every day DS is out is that he is missing learning. That helps noone.

I've applied for 2 other schools who are really really dragging their emails and not getting back to me, no doubt because they have seen DS"s school file and probably want to avoid taking him if they can.

Total nightmare. Our system really sucks for these kids.

So, we are 3 weeks on and still nothing in writing and no PE from the school.

So why are you allowing the illegal exclusion to continue? If DS hasn’t been excluded he should be in school full time.

I stand by EHE being a huge mistake. DS won’t receive the support he needs if you deregister as by EHE you relieve the LA of their duties. A PEx means the LA retain responsibility and provides you with evidence.

Because I was told that a managed move is a much better outcome than a PE plus there is now a chance that DS could get a MM to a much better school. Surely that is better than a PE and a PRU and months before of uncertainty and disruption to his GCCEs? I am guessing that if I force it at this stage, before we hear back on the MM, they will permanently exclude, which takes the MM off the table.

But by allowing the illegal exclusion to continue you are preventing DS from receiving a suitable, full time education either in school or via the LA. You are allowing the situation to drag on, and if you don’t challenge the school on the illegal exclusion they will continue to act unlawfully, potentially for weeks and weeks.

and months before of uncertainty and disruption to his GCCEs?

This is going to happen whether it’s a MM or a PEx.

Just came to this thread for some more advice. So, we got the managed move and by some miracle it was to an outstanding school where he has now been since 14th November. He seems to be doing ok but still showing ADHD behaviours. I've been back to CAMHS and they have increased his ADHD medication as his previous dose was very low so really hoping that that has an impact. The school in question is very academic and very strict and has way fewer badly behaved kids which seems to be working well for DS as far fewer opportunities to get in trouble. He is also much much better in terms of not going out nearly as much (now only on Fri & Sat nights) and not staying out late so I am really hopeful that he is now out of the druggy group he was in although he still keeps in touch with his friends. He also seems a bit more connected.

The main issue now is that he is on a trial period until Easter at his new school and they can send him back to his old school at any point if he breaks the rules. He seems to be doing ok but it's 3 months until Easter so I am wondering what to do in terms of a plan B. I had applied to a few other schools before we got the managed move, one of whom rejected him on the grounds of challenging behaviour, which I appealed (before we found out about the MM) as they have places plus very good results. Ofsted etc so I don't believe have a basis to refuse him. The appeal is this Thursday so I am not sure whether to appeal it and try to get a place lined up in case the MM doesn't work out. Apparently with a MM the school has far more freedom to send them back to the home school for any reason (where he'll get expelled) so I feel like we need a plan B. I also feel that this school did not act in accordance with the admissions code by not offering him a place when it had one available. Can anyone offer any advice on this? Also, if we do appeal and don't get the place (as he stays at his current school on his MM) can we then re-apply later and appeal if they refuse him a place again? I read that you can only appeal once in any 12 month period. TIA.

one of whom rejected him on the grounds of challenging behaviour, which I appealed (before we found out about the MM) as they have places plus very good results. Ofsted etc so I don't believe have a basis to refuse him.

Schools can refuse an in year admission on the grounds of challenging behaviour if they believe the pupil may display challenging behaviour and they have a high proportion of pupils with challenging behaviour/previous permanent exclusions compared to other local schools and they believe admitting another pupil with challenging behaviour would prejudice the provision of efficient education or use of resources.

You can only appeal once in any academic year unless it is accepted by the admission authority there is a significant and material change in the applicant’s circumstances.

Was an EHCNA request submitted? Did the LA agree to assess?

The EHCNA was submitted but they refused to carry out an assessment. Going to appeal but waiting for information from his previous school as to why they can't support him with the usual resources they have, what they did do etc. Problem is that it doesn't look like they did very much at all.

I don't see how the school will meet that ground as all schools in the area have similar issues but with worse Ofsted and worse results plus this school is undersubscribed.

So if we go through with the appeal now and lose (or win but don't take the place), and then applied again and they refuse, is there no right to appeal? Are we therefore better off withdrawing the appeal now in case I need to apply and appeal later if the MM is not successful?

Don’t wait for evidence to appeal, submit now and send evidence on when you receive it.

Good OFSTED and results and being undersubscribed don’t prevent a school from using that ground to refuse admission.

You wouldn’t be able to appeal again for a place this academic year unless the admission authority is satisfied there are significant and material changes. No one but you can decide whether to continue with the appeal or wait.

The LA said that we needed information from the school first as this forms the basis of the appeal. Is that not the case?

The Ofsted is from June 2022 and comments on how well behaved the students are. Based on this, it does not seem to satisfy the ground that admitting my son would tip the balance and prejudice the education of others, which is the only basis on which they could refuse him.

If I withdraw the appeal now, will it still be considered an appeal?

You can submit your appeal to SENDIST now and then send evidence when you receive it. Don’t listen to what the LA tell you, they will tell you what they want you to know and their own made up policies.

The school can also refuse on the basis of efficient use of resources, not just efficient education.

I have no idea whether withdrawing your appeal now would count as an appeal or not.